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Original poster

Balancing DD's right to wear what she chooses with worry that she'll attract upsetting male attention

58 replies

FairPeter · 06/03/2022 12:35

DD travelled on her own to a 18th party last night by train (1.5 hours away). She was in a jacket, trousers, trainers and bralet top. I suggested a coat and she said no. (I wasn't worrying about the cold so much as unwanted attention on the train.)
She got quite badly hassled on the train by a bunch of football supporters. When she got back this morning, I said "please wear a coat next time" and she was furious and said that she couldn't believe my first reaction was to blame her for her clothing, not the men who hassled her. And I think she's right. I'm 50 and grew up hiding/camouflaging to avoid being hassled on public transport - being scared, basically. She says she should be able to wear what she likes and they can f* off. Yet I still worry about her on her own on public transport (she's 17 and attractive). Is there a balance here to be had or should I 100% support her right to wear what she likes? I can't bear the thought of her being hassled - though I gotta say I admire her for her attitude. Any advice?

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Notanotherwindow · 06/03/2022 13:41

She should be able to wear what clothes she wants but to me Bralettes are underwear and she'd not have left the house like that any more than I'd let her walk out in her knickers.

fungh · 06/03/2022 13:42

If she had sons did she say "just because somethings on show, doesn't mean you get to look and comment on it"?

Well most men don't wear revealing clothes however my brother had to actually be more careful then me.

fungh · 06/03/2022 13:46

She is right.women can wear potato sacks and they will still get harassed. It reads to me you think it is her fault she had unwanted attention

This is true but I think if you are dressed in a certain watch you receive more because everyone is aware that it's the case so it's almost like your happy for the attention. I'm not saying it's right but I think some think like that.

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fungh · 06/03/2022 13:47

I also live in London and travel regularly by public transport. It's ridiculous to suggest it's so dangerous that no-one should travel alone after 9pm. Public transport is full and busy, lots of people travelling alone, travelling with kids, travelling in couples, groups. Fear mongering is irresponsible.

If that's what that poster is comfortable with let her crack on. I see women jogging through the park at winter with headphones etc. I wouldn't do it because of how I grew up but it doesn't mean it's not safe.

NuffSaidSam · 06/03/2022 13:48

@fungh

If she had sons did she say "just because somethings on show, doesn't mean you get to look and comment on it"?

Well most men don't wear revealing clothes however my brother had to actually be more careful then me.

You've misunderstood.

It's not about men wearing 'revealing' clothes. It's about educating men on their responses to women in 'revealing' clothes.

fungh · 06/03/2022 13:52

Sorry I misread it.

I agree that men should be raised to not do that but then again there will always be wrong uns.

Deadringer · 06/03/2022 13:52

I doubt if she would have had less hassle if she had worn a coat, she is young and attractive and on her own, perfect prey for arseholes no matter what she wears. It's men that are the problem, not clothes. I know what you mean though op, i have teen girls myself, it's a nightmare.

ANameChangeAgain · 06/03/2022 13:53

Our mum used to say to us on the way out the door, you dress how you like but remember, if you put it all on display you're gonna have an audience. unfortunately this mum was right. It isn't fair but its how the world is.
For me its a personal safety issue. If she was going straight from the car into a club then wear whatever she likes. As I said, it isn't fair, it isn't right, and it is victim blaming, but until every male learns to behave like a human then women have to be careful.

Coughee · 06/03/2022 13:53

I think she's right too OP. I think it's shit that your first response was to reprimand HER. I think you should help her find out how to report it.

I actually can't believe the responses on here, it's utterly depressing.

Coughee · 06/03/2022 13:56

How are men going to learn to behave like humans when the 'you can't go out like that' conversations are far far more common than the 'I don't care what she's wearing you treat women with respect' conversations?

I wonder if a man walking round with his shirt off in the summer was hassled by a group of larger intimidating gay men people would say he was at fault for displaying his body? I doubt it.

Ionlydomassiveones · 06/03/2022 14:00

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

fungh · 06/03/2022 14:02

I think men will learn more when rape & assault convictions aren't shockingly low & sentences actual reflect the crime.

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 06/03/2022 14:35

@Notanotherwindow

She should be able to wear what clothes she wants but to me Bralettes are underwear and she'd not have left the house like that any more than I'd let her walk out in her knickers.

She's 17. Pray tell, how would you have stopped her?

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 06/03/2022 14:36

I agree that men should be raised to not do that but then again there will always be wrong uns

Your comment is very "boys will be boys"

Coyoacan · 06/03/2022 14:43

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, she has to take responsibility for her safety.

I agree with @jytdtysrht

And we all do it differently. Personally I've always liked going where I want, when I want and I'm not exactly the queen of style, so I would wear clothes that wouldn't attract attention to myself and had a lot of freedom. But I must admit, footballs fans are the pits for all women.

fungh · 06/03/2022 14:44

Your comment is very "boys will be boys"

No my comment is there will always be wrong uns. You can believe that rape & assault will be educated out of everyone, I disagree.

ringoutthebells · 06/03/2022 14:49

OP, if that's how you feel I would go back to her and apologise, say you agree with her and are sorry this was your first reaction. I'd try and carry on the conversation, maybe tell her what you'd do and as others have said, lament the fact things are like this, perhaps discuss reporting it at the time as per pp, but only give her advice about covering up if she asks for it during the course of that conversation. I also like the idea of looking at that art installation a pp mentioned about what females were wearing when attacked/abused. I think it's ok to make your views clear and say that there will be more attention if she's not covered up, but if that was your ONLY response then that is the wrong way to go IMO, esp with a teen.

alexdgr8 · 06/03/2022 14:53

it's all very well taking about rights, but life is not a philosophy seminar.
the reality is that most men are stronger, physically, than most women.
some of this discussion reminds me of a relative, adult, who would just step straight out onto zebra crossings without looking, proclaiming, they have to stop, it's my right on a crossing.
famous last words ?

BeyondMyWits · 06/03/2022 14:54

If she had sons did she say "just because somethings on show, doesn't mean you get to look and comment on it"

No, she said "be respectful, you are 6'5", people will notice you, make sure it is for the right reasons"

alexdgr8 · 06/03/2022 14:55

@Notanotherwindow

She should be able to wear what clothes she wants but to me Bralettes are underwear and she'd not have left the house like that any more than I'd let her walk out in her knickers.

i agree, but realistically, what can you do with a bolshie 17 year old. they know everything. they can do what they like. they are invincible. we are old fogies, know nothing, are stupid, stuck in the past etc.

AlexaShutUp · 06/03/2022 15:06

I struggle with this issue too, OP. I truly believe that my dd has the right to wear whatever she likes, and that it is never the victim's fault of she is harassed or assaulted. That could happen no matter what she was wearing, and for all you know, those same men might have targeted your dd even if she had had a coat on.

At the same time, I have been socialised in this misogynistic society and it's hard to swallow back the gut reaction that says "you can't possibly go out dressed like that!". Also, sadly, lots of men and boys have also been socialised in this deeply misogynistic culture, and wrong as it is, many probably do regard women and girls as "fair game" when they are dressed a certain way. It disgusts me to say that, but it is the truth.

Generally, I try to put a lid on my reactions as I don't want dd to feel that she is responsible for how other people react to her appearance. I do emphasise though that she should avoid being alone when she is out etc... again, not because it would be her fault if she was out alone, but because society isn't as safe as it should be and that's just a fact. It's so hard to get the balance right!

Handsnotwands · 06/03/2022 20:12

A coat wouldn’t have changed anything.

DreamingofTimbuktu · 06/03/2022 20:43

@Pyewhacket

Depends what time of day. I wouldn't travel on my own on public transport in London after 9 pm. Nor would any of my kids, of either sex.

Oh come on - it’s not the bad , I travel regularly post 10pm on the train and have since my early 20s so 20 plus years with minimal issues.

Coyoacan · 07/03/2022 03:11

Generally, I try to put a lid on my reactions as I don't want dd to feel that she is responsible for how other people react to her appearance

I'm not saying women and girls should or should not dress in a certain way, but our daughters do at least need to pay attention to how things they do can produce different reactions in predatory men, so that they can defend themselves as much as possible.

It's all very well saying how men should behave but there are more predatory men than before and there were always plenty.

I must have hitch-hiked over 20,000 miles in my youth and learnt how to handle myself on the way by paying attention to what might cause problems and what made me safer.

Fupoffyagrasshole · 07/03/2022 03:25

Oh gawd @Pyewhacket you never go out alone after 9? That’s definitely not the norm! Myself and all my female friends get ourselves out and home most weekends on buses and tubes in London at all hours!! It’s totally fine!!

Have to agree with your daughter that the men are the problem not her (however she probably should have worn a coat just because it’s bloody freezing at the moment though 😂😂😂)

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