Am I parenting or bullying my DC(unknowingly) any suggestions for improvements?

[Saku]

Sorry for long post to describe the situation.
I have 9 yr DS and 5 yr DD.

Problem is that DS never want to use his brain or do the things which take efforts.
I feel this behaviour of his is hindering his mental development and academics.

He want to do things either being told or just copy others.
We explain him why taking your own decisions are important but after 1 hour back to same.

If not watching TV he just loath around and passes time playing(not really). On outings he remains passive.
He sits dumb in front of screen and watch all day...... with no idea about it. I say What is the use of watching and not getting anything..

Likewise he always tries to escape from study until we insist to sit down and do.
(again a full lecture to make him realise these things are important and all other kids also study if he wants good life in future he should be serious in these things)....
then he sits for his home work........ again lethargically. End up me telling answers.

We bring some building toys or puzzle books(younger age) he gets excited but wont give try. He want us to construct and give him. If we deny ... he is not bothered for them.

We have put him in sports club where too he likes being copycat of others(I stop myself lecturing in here)

All and all every area from morning till night we see.
I tell him to correct or give suggestions how he can improve.. get better (I dont want to.. but the things which are common sense and the things which comes naturally at least)

Now a days as I start lecturing him he gets teary... which makes me very sad ..... Am I shaking his confidence?
I asked him so many times what are the things bothering him why he is not thinking or making efforts, how he wants the things to be? He says he dont know/understand; what to do or how to do so not trying.
I feel so hopeless when he gets teary I felt AM I bullying him???
I dont want to do that but I want his development mentally and academically .. is it not parenting?? is it bullying?
Then what can I do ?? He shouldn't be sitting and ignoring things but off course I dont want him teary too
Is someone has faced same? any suggestions

It can be very frustrating when your image of yourself is built on being an academic and your children are struggling. I have been through that and actually what the children needed is time and acceptance. This is even more important in the teen years when they do exams. For me though the most important thing is that they do things they are happy doing. Telling them that they will be proud of them whatever they do. I actually find this easier with a child who is struggling academically. More frustrating when they are very able and could do the homework in ten minutes but prefers to spend 3hrs arguing why they will do it later.

I would perhaps for now talk to the school about prioritising the homework. Just push them to accept just homework on the subject he needs to improve the most. For me, all other things being equal, I would prioritise reading first but not just making him read more but seeing if anything helps words moving around and easier to read with coloured filters might suggest Irlens for example, difficulty blending might suggest dyslexia. If reading is good then look at writing. Does he have 'messy' writing? Is it painful to write? See if he enjoys touch typing.

The reason I would start with English is that it is used in more secondary subjects than maths and if he likes electronics he might already enjoy maths. Plus the above problems will also hinder his maths.

You have to be a detective in this but tackle it a little at a time. At 9 he may have no idea that some people don't find it painful to write or that words and letters are not supposed to move on the pages as you read them. There may of course be no specific issue but as a parent you are better equipped to notice it because you know and spend time with him every day.

The advice you already have is great too. Yes I would back off, reassure him that whatever he does you want him to be happy. Reassure him that there is a place for him in the world. 'MiniSaku I can see that you really relax in the garden and enjoy it. Did you know that some people's job is to look after other people's gardens?' Don't go too OTT he needs to know he doesn't have to decide now and what matters is finding a career which he enjoys and suits him.

purrbox

OP some posters are being very harsh to you.

Imagine being her son 🤷🏻‍♀️

I was just thinking exactly the same thing, she can stop reading this thread but that 9 year old boy is living with her.
A baby is born like a seed with all their talents already inside them, I think our job is just to nurture them so they can grow to be their best. We can’t force them to grow a certain way. All the best and I hope this thread is helpful to you.

I do a five minute worksheet on English, 5 minute worksheet on maths, 5 minutes reading and she's done for the day.

I don't push and don't get worked up. They will be who they'll be.

@allTizerorFizz Hi I am not avoiding your questions and thanks for being lenient to me
He chills with friends but obviously after covid times he was not going to friends homes nor they come... sometimes his friends come to the park where he goes. Yes one parent is always with him .....

@allEqualbutdifferent Thanks I see I will try to hold on my worries for his future (very difficult though).. and try to look through different point of view.

@ allNamenic yes he has Lego which I had to help him ..... but he plays the big ones by himself.. he has chalk and board where he likes to draw electronic items (ex tv remote) and colors paper pens. He has these books.... It can’t be true! - lots of amazing facts but he opened them only when I gifted him. We have kids library corner at home where both kids can reach out by themselves and little one does but he doesn't.
But he is very good reader he can read without understanding anything. I agree that me be of processing issue.

@autienotnaughty His academics had been poor but from when I started assisting him he has been little better (but looked like not mentally) . I asked to the Teacher how can I help him .... she told to make him practice more, keep repeating the lessons she referred CGP books to do at home, which I do with him as home schooling.
With friends he just copies them what they do.. or play effortless play like tags (which is normal).

@Babadook76 Hi, its not that he is not allowed to enjoy anything. Recently we have been to soft play where he had super duper fun and to our friends and children where after 3 hours he still wanted to stay we left him there for more hour with her sister to have fun.
where we can see him following the instructions from a toddler (which is OK) but not coming with not a single idea of his but waiting for more instructions from him (which make us feel odd but obviously we don't interrupt in their play).
Copying meaning .... for example if the other kids are removing their jumpers because they are hot ... he too removes his regardless. We want him to make his own reasonable decisions.
In his school a naughty boy was flushing all the toilets and DS was copying him but at home he tells his sister not to waste water while washing hands as 'water is precious' it seems.
We dont shout/yell at our kids all the time, I try to explain interactively with reasons what the action results was, and ask him what should have been done/was it wrong or right So that in future he will be able to make his own logical decisions. (I know this would have become long talks for him and looked like lectures........ now I have to find out new ways which I dont know )

I will start by trying to back off a bit and try to give less explanations to make long talks short.

@allalexdgr8 yes I agree with you to be over driven and try to relax and I do give him time to play and silly play, pillow fights, pretend frog, slugs and caterpillars etc. We have given him Binoculars, microscope, telescope, magnifying glass which he likes to play with.

@allPiperPosey
All these are good and he is happy in effortless playing but he struggles when he needs to give his own thought come with ideas and make decisions.

He is a happy boy otherwise. I will try to mend my ways, but I am still worried about his learning in school and overall mental development but try to refrain from stressing him any more.

@allCattitudes very good points .. I will check with him

I am in the middle of reading how to talk so kids will listen and listen so they will talk. It is a great book and could possible help either your situation. You say you don’t think he is very sharp, how so? If you’ve put that across to him then he may be just believing that he can’t do things. Kids need to hear a lot of praise from their parents and less criticism, hope this helps. Parenting is such a minefield! X

3luckystars yes agreed - an adult can ignore a thread online but it's harder for a 9 year old to ignore a parent in his own home.

You keep referring to 'academics'. An academic is a person who lectures at university. Or you can use it in the context of academic ability. He's got no hope in improving his comprehension skills if you're not referring to things correctly.

You're so critical of the poor child. He's not even allowed to take his jumper off without you noticing and deciding that's wrong.

I think you're way too over invested. Would it be a disaster if he's not academically brilliant? You realise not all children are academic? Yet they go on to do great things & can be perfectly decent grown ups with a job & a house? I was clever enough to get into grammar school many years ago but as an adult plenty of people earn more than me.

I think the more you tell him what to do, or correct him, the less confident he will be to make his own choices. So you’re in a bit of a cycle. Agree with previous suggestions. Lots of praise for positive behaviour!

@converseandjeans of course I notice when he is not wearing jumper and his hands are cold and next day he gets up with stuffy red nose.

Honestly Is there any parents who haven't nagged their children in their life saying "zip up your jacket it's windy." ? come on!

and I haven't talked any money here. Him earning more or less make me any different to him. I did't think that far even about money matter here.
I just want my child to improve in his weak areas as some other random parent want. But not at cost of his mental health.
I read lots of parenting books and after covid I read topics about mental health of children too .......
Most of them suggest to talk to the children patiently with love ...and make them understand by giving reasons and consequences of anything, that way they understand better so that they make better choices. Not just by shouting at them "Dont do this!!! Dont do that!!!".
I was trying the same strategy. I was not shouting on top of him without letting him speak.
I dont find any happiness to make my own son cry. It's not that he was being teary for long time and I was giving a blind eye as if I dont want to see how he feels. It matters to me the most than any body else in the world.
Thats why I am seeking help here by other's experiences.... which I didn't find in books.(because I was following the book's advises and surely it was not helping)
He is my DEAR son.. I rooted for him 9 months inside me. How can I feel joy in making him poorly?

OP I have sympathy because my DS(7) is a bit similar, and always has been. Even as a baby I noticed the difference between him and his more active and curious friends, and I genuinely believe there are some children whose developmental progress would be hampered by their passivity and lack of drive if someone doesn't coax and support them through steps that other children take automatically and enthusiastically.

I have accepted that he is who he is and although it is sometimes draining it is my responsibility to keep him moving forward until he is old enough to recognise the need to push himself forward - at that point it will be up to him. I definitely keep it positive with plenty of praise - I don't go in for lectures or lengthy reasoning with him because he really wouldn't understand what I meant. It would be like rebuking a dog - he would be sad but have no idea what I was on about.

Small wins is what I aim for!

Some peoples brains aren't wired the way you would expect. Maybe you should go back and read the link that was posted. Some people don't understand written instructions and need to be shown how to do something, this can go on right into adulthood for the rest of their lives. These are the people who could have done brilliantly in exams but weren't taught 'right for them'.

You're bullying the kid OP. Making him cry. Get off his back. Show him or do something together. If he enjoys it then encourage him to do it himself. Do it again if he's still engaged and can't quite yet. Be patient.

Well, whatever you are doing is not working, is it? so you have to find new ways to address this...

I think you also need to consider that your child might have some learning difficulties and/or a different way to learn from others. Or he could be on the spectrum. This is not necessarily about laziness or lack of will and I find it odd that you have not explored the possibility that there is something else going on.

You need to have a chat with a healthcare professional and start the process of getting him assessed.

Lecturing him is not going to work and all you are doing right now is upsetting him and shattering his confidence.

Not every child will be academic and outgoing and he should feel he is supported and love for who he is, not who you would like him to be.

Thanks for all the messages and suggestions from small to big, I am considering all. Even the most critical ones they also helped me to draw a bigger picture.
I am working on how to blend in the suggestions in our daily life to benefit DS. That was last time he was teary which triggered me to write this thread. I hope I will be able to lift off any further pressure from his shoulders so that he will never be teary again because of stress .

We have parent teacher meeting next week in his school. And I will be raising all this to his teacher and will ask her to refer him to SEN.

@allBlankTimes The links were very useful and informative. I will try my best to relax a bit and let it loose for him instead of jumping in. Will leave those areas which can wait. Work on all the points noted down.
And not to forget praises .

Any more suggestions if anyone thinks it can benefit DS, are most welcome

My dad sounds a but like you OP - he had expectations that i be a certain type of person- confident, academic, socially successful. He pressured me and criticised me. I hardly speak to him now because I grew up, had my own children, and realised he was a bad parent!

I do look back and see my dad as a ‘bully’ but i also wonder what led him to act like this - did something happen in his own childhood or what were his parents like.

Your poor son, he is only 9. Let him enjoy doing what he enjoys - with no expectation whatsoever of him learning anything and excelling .

Being successful in life is being happy - and you are stopping your son being happy by always finding fault with him.

Accept the child you have and love him how he is.

And just relax - you sound very anxious and uptight. You are sucking the joy out of your son’s life.
What were your own parents like and your childhood?

Children all develop differently and the previous poster who said you need to parent the child you have is right. I think if you are academic yourself then it is hard if your child isn’t but you have to get over that quickly before they sink under the weight of your expectations.

I think it is wise to discuss with the school the possibility of SEN but don’t do this in front of your child. Also it’s really important to realise that he has plenty of time to grow and develop and that what he is like now is most likely nothing like the adult he will become.

For now you need to have a new project with him - operation confidence and happiness. The marital arts is great, sounds like it’s going well. Next step is to work on the language you use with him, it needs to be positive , encouraging and not related to improving himself, he needs time and space to learn to be himself and not who you want him to be. He’s probably a bit stressed right now and retreating into himself.

My DD is early 20s now and has over the years been diagnosed with dyspraxia, dyscalculia and just recently ADHD. The last one was masked as over the years I helped her develop coping strategies for everyday life l it wasn’t easy but it has worked well as when she was having her ADHD assessment her assessor commented on how good her coping strategies are as we had very gently in her own time and at her pace given her the tools she needed for adult life in tiny baby steps at a very slow pace.

She struggled at school and with independence hugely but we took one thing at a time, plenty of time to relax as she tires easily and to just be herself and any interest she did show we encouraged and supported her. She is very creative but also showed interest in a language from films she used to watch when little. Once clear it wasn’t a passing interest we found someone to give her lessons as she asked for them and she is now at university doing a language degree and is really self motivated, travelled on her own at 16 and is just so hugely different to when she was 9.

It’s great that you are asking for advice and taking it on board.

I'm never one to automatically shout sen, but I think it's a good idea to consider it. My son behaves similarly with the copying and that's part of his autism he doesn't always No what to do so he just does what others are doing. So for example kids his age play out on street but I can't let him because if I said you must stay on the street he would only stay if the others were. Otherwise he would just leave if they left. And not in a disobedient or sneaky way he would just follow. them.

We have parent teacher meeting next week in his school. And I will be raising all this to his teacher and will ask her to refer him to SEN

That's a good way forward. Some schools are excellent at spotting signs, some are abysmal and most are good. If by chance you happen to have a school that's not helpful at all and "doesn't see" any issues for your son, this site is an absolute treasure trove of helpful interventions. www.theottoolbox.com/

Good Luck, you're starting a new relationship with your son and I'm sure things will improve a lot. Despite some of the harsh criticism on here, you've risen above it you're open-minded to different points of view and open-hearted enough to try some new approaches.

Can I ask you to consider one last thing please. If at any point he feels that he's different to other kids in a bad way and he feels what he does is wrong compared to them, do be ready for this and have a lot of examples of people or objects that are different but can do the same tasks often in a better way. It's essential to boost his self-esteem at every opportunity and to let him know that different does NOT mean wrong. different is just as good and sometimes better than ordinary.

@allSuperSleepyBaby My and my siblings' childhood was very good. Df is busy always. Dm was We were good at studies and extra curricular activities. I was the youngest and very curious about everything. I only gave hard time to my mother in eating my vegetables till I went uni. But after going to hostel realised the value of Mum's food. Siblings were even more easy goer. Now we all are at good positions. We love and respect each other and Dm, Df very much.

@allVolterra That's amazing how your DD is doing and you are able to make DD a good successful human being for the world.
If its ok with you, Could you please share one or two examples of how you helped her in coping life difficulties (you mentioned she struggled in school, in what way she struggled) or the problems she was facing. Thanks in advance.

@allBlankTimes Thanks, I will remember.

She did it herself, just needed the right support which took a bit of finding out how best to provide. Happy to give examples . I’ll send a personal message as would prefer to not write too much about it on here 🙂

I think you need to acl off completely here and allow him to discover his own interests and motivation... he cannot do that with you constantly instructing him and structuring his time/activities for him (however well meaning). He needs to discover his own sense of self - this requires space (head space, mental space)

The more you push, the more he will (subconsciously) resist and you will achieve the opposite of what you are trying to do.

He is 9. There is plenty of time for academic study (if he wants to). I would also stop stressing over schoolwork/homework for a while too while you allow him some space.

It is very hard - especially if you have lots of hopes/ambitious for him - but they need to be his hopes and ambitions not yours and you will just be setting yourselves up for a life of frustration (and resentment) for both of you if you do not allow him to find his own inner motivation.