Can't handle my four year old

[anamelikenoother]

Looking for reassurance or advice about my four year old son. He's just such hard work and I'm exhausted by it. He can be a delight but more frequently he is overwhelmingly whiney and grumpy. I feel like we can't get anything right and the smallest, seemingly insignificant thing can start a total meltdown which is difficult to get him out of. I know much of this is normal but I can't seem to cope with it. The frequency of it, the fact that he still can't sleep alone or through the night along with violent outbursts are leading me to feel like I don't want to be around him.

I feel so much shame and grief - I feel like a terrible parent and that our handling of him isn't working or helping. I keep trying to remind myself that everything's a phase but it's been like this for a year or more.

We've recently had a baby so he struggled with that and got (understandably) worse for a while but definitely improved, but he's still constantly whinging and complaining.

We've tried various strategies - gentle approaches like holding him and listening, along with discipline like time out (always accompanied and gentle). Nothing seems to work except sanctioning tv time or foods he likes... But I'm sick of bribing/threatening. Are there other ways to manage this?

My husband doesn't really think there's an issue and has more patience than I do, but had struggled more recently. I'm at the end of my tether...is this just his personality? Will he grow out of it?

I could have written this myself! I'm afraid I don't have any magic tricks but you have my utmost sympathy. My four year old is harder to handle now than he's ever been and similarly to you nothing works to affect his reactions or behaviours - gentle approaches nor tougher ones. I am keeping my eye on the long goal though and hoping (surely!) this won't last forever, but it's really hard isn't it. I sometimes feel like his regulation is getting worse rather than better.

Have you spoken to anyone about it? His nursery / school staff or gp / health visitor? I don't anticipate they would have a magic wand but the act of talking about it might feel like a release. They might have some suggestions you hadn't thought of.

Also, have you spoken to friends about it? I have a couple of friends who I can talk to about my son's behaviour and I find it really helps.
I try and read books on parenting to support me - after all it's a lifelong learning process isn't it! I tend to go towards the gentler parenting books. They do support and bolster me but at the same time after enduring this sort of behaviour for a long time it's hard to have enough gas in the tank to practice it all the time. Often I'm exhausted by the time I start work at 9am as there have already been so many battles and difficulties in the run up to nursery drop off.

Sending you loads of good wishes and I really hope you find a way through. I really feel you. Make sure you find some time for yourself to reset - that is so important when managing two small humans. X

I could have written your post too OP. Felt emotional reading it as what you are describing (with the exception of the new baby) relates to our situation. The meltdowns, the moods, the inability to sleep alone. He's increasingly aggressive, which is more of a problem the bigger and stronger he gets. He broke my DH's glasses tonight by throwing something directly at his face. It's awful, it makes the entire household very tense and it's really impacting on our marriage.

Like you, we have tried everything. Spoke to health visitor but it wasn't much help. She said most stuff we already knew. Zero tolerance for hitting. Yeah but what if he just keeps on doing it?? Nothing works - star charts, praising good behaviour, gentle hands, talking about feelings, plain old shouting - and now he's progressed to pinching!

I am thinking of calling the GP and asking for a paediatric referral. I just feel so helpless and I'm really beginning to resent him. Thing is, when he's happy there is no sweeter and kinder boy. He does say that he feels 'bad and unhappy' when he loses his temper and he looks so miserable, it's really sad.

One thing I will say is though - it's not a reflection on your parenting so please try not to think that. I have an older DD and we had no issues like this with her. Every DC is different and brings their own set of challenges...I'm hoping it means our DSs will be wonderful caring teenagers??

Thank you for your replies and I'm sorry you're going through this too, though it is a comfort to know I'm not alone!

I just find it so demoralizing. I really feel like people just think we're terrible parents and that his behaviour is our fault, especially because he's our first so there's no comparison. I do have a couple of friends who have more 'difficult' children and whilst it's good to get some frustrations off my chest, they don't seem to take it so badly personally and sort of laugh it off (there are some cultural differences). I have a habit of blaming myself for things and getting very introspective.

It's also affecting our marriage. My husband tends to choose the path of least resistance which I end up feeling quite resentful about.

My boy is a real delight sometimes too. Thankfully very loving (so far) to his younger sibling but it really doesn't take much for him to flip. I've spent so much time trying to understand and avoid the triggers but I just can't seem to get it right.

Maybe we will speak to the Dr, although the last time we saw her he tried to kick her in the face

Thanks again for the kind support and wishing you all the best with yours too. Hopefully it will pass soon!

I have a 4yo and going through difficult spells with him too OP. Spitting unfortunately is the problem we have. It's becoming less frequent now, but several weeks ago I had to contact the HV and nursery for advice as I was at my wit's end. I remember being in tears after he spat at a parent in the playground when picking up my older DC. I have never been through this with my older DC.

Nursery have been working with us on this. Giving them updates on how his weekend has been helps me share any difficult times we have. He doesn't spit at nursery, just at myself, or his siblings mainly ( rare case when he did once in school playground, so I started waiting outside the playground so there's less parents around).

You have my sympathies. It's hard work some days.

Like others on this thread, my youngest can be absolutely delightful the rest of the time. It's when he has a meltdown we all feel the force of it.

Yes, it's also putting a strain on my marriage.

Sympathies, it's not easy.

I'd be targeting the sleep thing and basically sleep training so he goes down by himself. I suspect he's not getting enough sleep and is overtired, maybe he's stirring in the night to check someone is with him?

Hard as it is, he needs to learn that meltdowns don't produce the results he wants so invite him to tell you what's wrong, try to voice what you think is going on for him but ultimately let him thrash it out until he calms down. You need to also stay calm. If he whines, say you don't understand until he says it in a normal voice.

Work with nursery or school. Have a set routine so there's less point in him whinging eg x amount of TV per day, x number of treats per week.

Also make sure you give lots of praise for positive things and ensure you have some 121 time with him. He should be getting attention for things other than playing up or he'll get an idea of himself as a naughty boy.

Good luck, not easy!

@GrendelsGrandma

Sympathies, it's not easy.

I'd be targeting the sleep thing and basically sleep training so he goes down by himself. I suspect he's not getting enough sleep and is overtired, maybe he's stirring in the night to check someone is with him?

Hard as it is, he needs to learn that meltdowns don't produce the results he wants so invite him to tell you what's wrong, try to voice what you think is going on for him but ultimately let him thrash it out until he calms down. You need to also stay calm. If he whines, say you don't understand until he says it in a normal voice.

Work with nursery or school. Have a set routine so there's less point in him whinging eg x amount of TV per day, x number of treats per week.

Also make sure you give lots of praise for positive things and ensure you have some 121 time with him. He should be getting attention for things other than playing up or he'll get an idea of himself as a naughty boy.

Good luck, not easy!

Thanks Grendels. Much of this we have tried or do but we could definitely be stricter with some of it. We had tried being more structured with tv time and slipped so we've reintroduced that this week and it has helped a bit so thanks for that suggestion.
We try and stay calm and mostly do, but I have really struggled more recently because it's been so relentless. My husband is usually very calm and patient but he's had to walk away a few times because it's been too much.
Nursery are great. He had a term of being very rough but has been fine for the past couple - he's even managed to not retaliate when another child has hurt him, so he can control himself, just not with us apparently.

We give him lots of praise - he seems to feel shame really acutely so I'm really careful not to call him naughty, and it's why we stopped using time outs.

The sleep comments are interesting. I've been anti-sleep training with him. Not in general as I think we all have to do what works for us and our children, but from birth he's gone from fine to full meltdown distress at being left alone or put down. I managed to put him down for a nap twice as a baby (not for the lack of trying) - he had to be either with someone/on someone/in a buggy. At night he would just about go down in his cot but if he woke in the night it would take over an hour to get him down again. We co-slept for a long time (started the night in his bed, came into ours). He started sleeping through for a bit but it went downhill again and for the past few months my husband has been in with him because we all needed rest.

Now though he gets really angry and upset if he wakes up and my husband isn't in his room. I do feel it's time to break this habit. My main concern about this though is that he's literally terrified of being on his own. He used to have nightmares about being abandoned and won't be left in a room by himself even if he's playing happily. I don't know where it's come from - he's always been like this.

Sorry for the essay. I am doubting myself constantly - I try hard to avoid him seeing that but he's a smart boy...

No idea where those angry faces came from, sorry Grendels!! I just replied and that's what came up

Hi @anamelikenoother I don’t have any advice but I relate so much to your thread. Everything you describe is my life with a 4 year old too. He doesn’t sleep alone, wakes up screaming if he realises his designated parent has left the room, can’t fall asleep by himself, bedtime has always been a nightmare. He is also luckily quite affectionate towards his little brother but will absolutely not share a single thing with him, everything has to be “his” or “his brothers”, there is no option of sharing. He’s so particular and controlling. He asks the same question 10000 times in a row even though I’ve told him the same answer 9999 times. This evening it was “are eggs in pancake batter?” “Yes they are.” “Mummy, are eggs in pancake batter?” “Yes…!!” It drives me spare and some days I feel like I’m barely coping. I don’t feel like he’s an entirely neurotypical child but nursery don’t back me on that and the waiting list through the GP just for a referral is a year.

I just wanted to say you’re not alone.

Just checked back in on this thread and wow, everything people are saying resonates! So sorry you are all experiencing this but a relief to hear it is more common than I fear.

The sleep thing is interesting. DS is also going through a stage of waking up and seeking out parents so I am in our spare room as he prefers to come to me (and DH is truly useless when sleep deprived, it affects him way more than me). But DS gets very angry if I am not there, whether I'm up early or god forbid, trying to actually share a bed with DH! We need to tackle it but as you say OP, getting sleep is the important thing here!

Same here with the recurring questions @Ohtheaudacity. We get that a lot and he gets angry if we don't answer for the thirtieth time. Interesting point about being not entirely NT, I do wonder about this too. Going to see how school goes and hope that might sort some of it out??

Adding myself to the collective misery! I could have written the OP myself and am experiencing identical problems with my four year old. I find it utterly draining and he has me in tears on a daily basis; endless repetitive questions (he keeps asking the same question hoping for the answer to change), willfully disruptive and naughty behaviour that no amount of standard interventions manage to change, physical aggression to his baby brother, daily screaming fits and temper tantrums (meltdowns??), a tendency to throw and destroy toys the moment something doesnt go his way….god I could go on and on. He is breaking me and my mental health is tanking. It just isnt how I thought motherhood would be and I find it so lonely because none of my friends can relate as their children are so easily entertained / disciplined / behaviourally so much easier.

He also refuses to sleep in his own bed and regularly has tantrums in the middle of the night for various reasons (but especially if I so much as dare leave his bed to use the bathroom or god forbid have some time to myself) which wake the whole household and mean that I don’t even have respite from him at night.

Goes without saying that I love the bones of him but my goodness he is challenging.

Maybe we need to start a mutually supportive group?

@Puddlelane123 I’d be up for that!

I was really proud of him today because he shared one of his favourite toys with his little brother for 5 minutes. However that joy was negated by “mummy where’s daddy?” “Daddy’s at work” literally 50+ times during a 20 minute drive back from the shops. You’re right, it’s like he thinks if he asks the same question enough the answer will change. I’d never thought about it like that before. There was also a mega meltdown because I spent longer than 30 seconds strapping the baby into the buggy and he couldn’t see me though the car window so thought I’d abandoned him. That left him in a grump all round the supermarket. It’s so tough feeling like every day is full of several little battles. I never win the battles let alone the war.

I have a SLT assessment for him on Friday as he does have a slight problem with pronouncing certain words and I want to get on top of it before school. I might raise my concerns with the SLT, I’ll report back here.

I know this is an old thread, but @anamelikenoother did your ds grow out of this? Going through similar with my 4yo boy and need some hope!

@Februaryschild2023 there is hope! He still has his moments (plenty of them) but it's nowhere near as bad as last year.

He's finally sleeping through the night (only took him 4.5 years!) And he's much better at communicating his needs than lashing out.

Good luck with yours. Hope you come out if the other side soon x

Oh thank god! Thanks for the update, I was close to throwing mine out the window today. Glad to hear there's hope!

I would start the referral process now if I were you. If you need to do it in a few years you’ll regret not starting sooner. If you’re wrong you’ve lost nothing. If you’re right the sooner you get the diagnosis the better believe me.

My son was struggling to fall asleep by himself too. It was, like, pain (i can't say otherwise). Helped, oddly enouth, puzzle worksheets for kids like these. It is hard for him to count and add numbers, so after all he's being sleepy and obedient, haha

Oh wow, this was a whole year ago! Firstly thanks for the update OP. My now 5 year old has also got looooads better. School has really been the making of him. He’s inquisitive, kind, a bit of a tell-tale haha, but has made lots of lovely friends and settled nicely. Bedtime is still tricky sometimes but miles better than it was. He still doesn’t love sharing with his younger brother. Somehow though everything feels much easier than it did this time last year. He’s really coming into his own as a person and I wouldn’t change his highly-strung self for the world :)

@anamelikenoother @Ohtheaudacity Thank you both for updating this thread! My nearly 4yo sounds incredibly similar and has meltdowns over control issues - such as needing to be the person to set the table, first down the stairs in the morning. It’s grinding us down. Reassuring to read that things are so much better now. For your LOs, was it more a personality/age thing that they’ve now grown out of or did you ever seek/get a diagnosis? Xxx

My DS was the same at 4. He’s now seven and slightly better but there’s no sudden 180 change I’m afraid. It’s consistency, boundaries, loving them through gritted teeth. For us screens are the devil’s work. He just can’t be on a screen for long or it’s anarchy. Keeping him busy. He’s absolutely fine and school which is the main thing. Just loses his mind at home.

*fine at school

@poppet131 we didn't get a diagnosis as he's mellowed so much (at school in particular, less so at home but still noticeably). Like for @Ohtheaudacity school has been the making of him and he seems very popular so I think he's a lot more gentle there and takes it out on us when he gets home! He's also a tell-tale but it took so long to get him to use 'gentle hands' that the fact he can hold it in and complain to me/a teacher gives me joy and I'll take it!
Like for @RudsyFarmer screens seem to trap this wild energy in and it bubbles over when they go off, but as long as we allow it for a short period and we're consistent with when and for how long, he can manage it well now. Sugar seems to be his nemesis though - he often goes feral if he's had anything too processed. To the point where he suggested throwing his own Easter egg away because it made him feel so bad!

The other recent breakthrough is for using audiobooks at night. He was already doing much better but it seems to send him off to sleep faster and we don't need to be with him for as long. Not sure why we didn't try that sooner!

Good luck to you all struggling. They really are hard work but there's definitely hope!

@anamelikenoother Thanks so much! It sounds like he’s doing amazingly! And yes, that gives me so much hope. How frequent are his tantrums/meltdowns now, if any? X

That’s interesting about diet. I react really badly to sugar and whilst my children’s diet isn’t too bad they’re certainly sugar so I’ll monitor that. For us I think tiredness and screens are the absolute meltdown trigger.