Downsides of three - talk me down plz

[Bluffysummers]

So I’ve just had my second baby and he’s been night and day from my first. Everything has felt easier, yes it’s a bit chaotic when they both are at home but DH has staged his return to work so much so that dc2 will be 3 months before he does a full week and honestly it’s worked out so well for both of us. Dc 2 has been truly healing for both so us.

But I just get the feeling our family isn’t quite complete. Maybe I’ll feel different when he’s more active and I’m running around after 2. My main reason for feeling like this is I recently lost my dad and i have a v strained relationship to my own brother (he’s a very difficult personality and we were raised in a competitive environment, but I digress) and I do wish I had close siblings that I could count on to get through the tough times, not just bereavement but in general.

I’m trying to be very balanced in how to think about it but it’s just a feeling inside. I had 2 years between Dc1 and 2 so I know id like them both in school if we had a third, which means I’d be 36. I’ve also rationalised away some of the typical ‘cons’ of 3. I’ll put them below.
Cost- dh just got a huge promotion and pay rise. I’ll be looking to move up when I go back to work and I’d want to be working at least 3 years before falling preggo again. Family tickets are 2 adults 3 children in most places I’ve looked lately
House- we have a 4 bed already. Large spare double room could be shared for 2 of the same sex and we’d still get to keep the office.
Car- car is a lease and we could lease a 7 seater and keep our run around
Childcare- if older 2 are in school it’s not too bad

Cons I’m so so on -
My age if we did go for a third. I’d be 36 (I have quite a high ovarian reserve but I know the risk of trisomies rises and it’s apparently harder to conceive post 35 and would I feel worse physically? Saying that I know a lot of women have kids post 35 and feel fine and dandy

• potential for a loss
• 3 being an odd number- but I’ll raise my children v differently from how my parents raised me
• I’ve heard 3 kids is the most challenging

What else am I not thinking of? I know it might seem a long way off but I’m a dreamer and a planner.

Anyone else felt their family wasn’t quite complete and decided to go for it? Do you regret it ? Was it harder or easier than you anticipated? Were there any surprises? Did it make you want to have a 4th?

I loved having three until they hit teenage years. Three of them all teenagers at the same time. GCSEs, A levels, hormones, all at the same time. At any one time at least one of them is in a mood and it seems like they take turns all at the same time! Plus they are all sporty and we have spent years taking them all to clubs and matches often going in different directions every evening and weekends. There are pluses but you wanted to hear it warts and all

I don't think the plan of 'don't let them have hobbies' and 'tell them to go to a nearby university' is a good one.

You and your husband both working, I think it would be very hard to have three kids once they are all in school: 3 lots of homework help, 3 lots of reading practice, 3 lots of play dates, 3 lots of after school activities. I honestly can’t see the appeal when you could have a comfortable life with 2 rather than spread yourself thinner.

I was in the same boat as you really, except without the huge pay rise and four bedroom house!

We went for it and my third was born when I was 39. My other two were 2 and 4 at the time so for a while I had none of them at school. The pregnancy was the hardest of the three but I'd had them all pretty close together and my body was a bit fed up of it all by then, I didn't enjoy the pregnancy at all really and the 'magic' had worn off for me, I just wanted the baby here. I paid privately for the harmony test due to my age as I had similar concerns to you, but saying that my eldest was born when I was 35 so I'd always been an 'older mum'.

Yeah there's the cost, and the tickets for things, and you need a bigger car and three kids is a lot, and it can be stressful and hectic and hard hard work. But it was the best decision I have ever made.

My third child is the absolute light of this family, we all adore her. She's only 2 now but she is pure sunshine and we would be so much worse off without her. We still only have three bedrooms and have no money but I wouldn't change a single thing. I love having a little gang and they love each other. It might not always be this way but for now I consider myself very lucky.

Sorry - I can't talk you down because our circumstances weren't as good as yours and we did it anyway! Not a single regret.

@UserPotato

I don't think the plan of 'don't let them have hobbies' and 'tell them to go to a nearby university' is a good one.

I think you’ve misunderstood, i said I want my children to have hobbies.

The uni close by, as someone who went uni further away (it was cheaper then) I really do think that staying close by is a fairly smart move financially, now whether if that’s what kids want is another thing. I was really pushed into uni, to the extent nothing else was ever presented as an option, I don’t think I’d do the same to my kids, plus there’s so many ways to get a degree now that aren’t the traditional degree. If I had my time again I’d do a degree apprenticeship. I think that’s how I’d be encouraging my kids, esp if they were like me and didn’t know exactly what they wanted to do. Plus university fees are likely to rise even more and how it is now may no longer be viable for the vast majority of people, myself included regardless of 1/2/3 kids.

My uncle lives in the states and a lesser instate Uni cost 20k dollars a year, out of state 30/40 with no scholarships. V unlikely I could support even one child through uni at those prices

You can think all this about uni all you want OP but if your kid wants to go away for independence, they’ll go. I lived in a city with an excellent & probably the best course in the country for my subject. I chose to move 300 miles away cos I wanted to move away from home & my parents (who I love but at 18, I craved the freedom).

I’ve got two & would have liked a 3rd but I had two HG pregnancies and I couldn’t do it again. But also, financially I don’t think it would benefit my two kids at all. We are comfortable. We can afford all their hobbies. We can afford holidays & days out without worry. We can afford nice clothes etc. My two current kids have a lovely life & a 3rd would mean they lost out on some of what they have now. They’d gain a sibling sure but they already have & love each other. So overall, I’ve found closure from that.

And to be honest, after the last few weeks we’ve had, I couldn’t cope with another I don’t recon 😂 we’ve had covid, a sick bug & now chicken pox in the space of 6 weeks. It’s been hellish & I’m not sure why I haven’t been sacked from work 😬 I cannot imagine a 3rd one bringing home more illness or having to deal with 3 poorly kids at one 😱😂

I've been put off having a third after reading some of these posts. I wanted a third straight after my second (wanted an 18 month age gap). Although we did stop using protection it hasn't happened and I'm going to wait until my 2nd is a bit older. Kids need attention and you can't compare someone else's experience to the experience you'll have.

My older 2 adored their younger db although they did hide him once in the indoor wendy house in his little carrier chair & didn't tell me where they put him
I am glad I had 3 they are now older adults & I have a dgs
Yes it was hard work but we found ways of staying in 2 bedroom cottages (clue check if their is a bed settee in lounge or take a camp bed & sleeping bag) for holidays. & one of the best holidays they remember & still talk about is when we had to count every penny & they had to may choices cost wise of long walks to seaside town rather than bus or having -cheap - meal out. I love it now when we all get together & our family has increased with their partners too.
Would I do it again - yep-the hard work was worth it & we only had a normal size car which is why our family limit was 3!
& reading to dc x 3 you do realize that once the oldest gets to read they will read to the others

I have 3 , 12,15,18. Like you my family just didn’t feel complete - so indecisive for so line between 2 and 3 but then as soon as 3rd was out I knew I was done. And the minute she came out I knew she was just meant to be here. I have a big family and am close to my siblings and that’s what I wanted for my children - to have that ready made team.
Some days it’s hard work, so much washing, more to cook more packed lunches etc , but the good def outweighs the bad. When I hear them all laughing together and at Xmas and birthday when they buy each other gifts and write such lovely things in each other’s cards that it makes them cry. They have a great relationship and I hope that continues. We have a 5 seater car , we manage to go on holidays ok with suitable accommodations- hotels abroad are harder for 5 but appartments are easy . Just because family tickets for attractions and for 4 doesn’t meant you shouldn’t have a bigger family - you just buy an extra ticket - no biggie. You do what’s right for you ...... but def the right decision for us xxx

We have 4 so can't talk you down I'm afraid it's wonderful, busy but wonderful!

It I think 3 can be a lot more. But what would make me most wary is you saying you’d want to leave a big gap so they are both at school - this will be a pain in the arse, because the younger one will be at different stages doing different things for their whole childhoods. So I’d say do it quicker if you really want to, not because 36 is old but because of gaps.

But overall I wouldn’t, chances are life will be a lot nicer with to - you’ll be able to give them more attention, have more time to keep your relationship healthy, more money and freedom to do things.

You’ve got plenty of time to decide anyway.

@FlossMoss

Costly dc are not babies.

They are teenagers. Their shoes are expensive, their hobbies are expensive. Laptops, textbooks, bus passes. They eat LOADS in the house and out for meals. Driving lessons are £30. Car insurance is £1000. Then university.

Not that I don't think you shouldn't have a third child for financial reasons but the expensive part of rearing a child is not the baby years,

This. Reusing your Baby items is a drop in the ocean compared to the childcare and then the cost of raising teens .

They don’t pass down clothes or agree to do the same hobby as their siblings.

Have you worked out the costs of driving lessons, cars, a university education and getting your child on the housing ladder?

Do you want to tell your third child that you can’t afford to support him through university because you “ had a feeling that your family wasn’t complete”?

I've just remembered the worst thing that should definitely put anyone off. Having to read Biff, Chip and fucking Kipper again. Once is painful, twice is torture but at least it is over 3 times and you never recover.

Wait until your first baby is older and then decide. Despite ebf my periods returned at 4 months and despite going through parenting hell and only originally wanting two children I desperately wanted another. Fast forward two years and we know we are at out parenting capacity.

Now my youngest is 2 I’m noticing how much more expensive my food shopping, days out and holidays are. With 3 it would be even more.

"I need to read into this more as I read an article on vox that called the evidence behind the no more than 2 children theory into question"

Would not base anything on vox... pay-per-click journalism, with charitable connections who would benefit if people follow that actual article's conclusion, to donate $1000 to environmental charities.

The environmental impact of children born into the affluent West is huge, and will continue to be huge until a point is reached in curbing environmental damage that will squeeze us so hard that we would not want a child to be born into that.

So I would say read more into the benefits to our world of producing one fewer consumer.

@BeyondMyWits

"I need to read into this more as I read an article on vox that called the evidence behind the no more than 2 children theory into question"

Would not base anything on vox... pay-per-click journalism, with charitable connections who would benefit if people follow that actual article's conclusion, to donate $1000 to environmental charities.

The environmental impact of children born into the affluent West is huge, and will continue to be huge until a point is reached in curbing environmental damage that will squeeze us so hard that we would not want a child to be born into that.

So I would say read more into the benefits to our world of producing one fewer consumer.

Hi OP,

No one needs to talk you down, if you want third go for it! I think you just deal with whatever your set up is.

On the whole population/climate change point, this always comes up in third child threads.

As counterintuitive as it is, it's not as straight forward as saying "having fewer children is better for the environment" - there are so many, too many, variables for this to be entirely true.

If you have time to listen I found these Radio 4 discussions on the topic really interesting:

Rethink Population (5 episodes): The Great British Baby Bust: [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001324g
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001324g]]

Analysis: Baby Boom or Bust:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0011chh

Analysis: Why Worry About Future Generations?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00146pp

@M0RVEN good points, i don’t have any real idea of raising teens or older children in this economic climate which will inevitably get more expensive. Regardless though we wouldn’t pay out of pocket for university education, provide top ups perhaps but wouldn’t be paying flat out, it’s just not feasible. Likewise getting dcs on the property ladder, tokens towards fees but not chunks for a deposit unless we win the lottery, that’s would be the same for 1 or 6 lol

I've never had that family complete feeling. We have 6 now (inc 1 set of twins).
2 to 3 was very little change for us, I became a sahm, house and car were fine. Addition of the twins was a car change, had that over 7 years now and fit baby 6 in too. 2 car jobbie to go out as a full family but not very often as dh working away a lot. Same house, we could do with a bigger one but can manage a few more years here.

I have 4 no 3 was by far the easiest baby to add none of the worries of can I love another? can I split my Time? Just pure enjoyment. He is 20 now he is by far the easiest of my children to get on with however he is also the most like me so I may have felt that if he was no 1 or 2.

I ended up with four. I partly felt, because the third one was younger it was sad they didn't have a sibling close to their age. Obviously I love them all so much. and would not change a thing now, but there are some drawbacks. Cost and time - as others have said, very painful once they are teenagers, of course you can do things - cutting the cloth to suit, but it can be difficult when their peers get to do things you cannot afford, have things, or have a doting parent getting them to things and supporting them on the sidelines (hobbies etc.) - and unless you are extremely wealthy and both do not need to work, they may have to go it alone or do without on occasion. A lot of things are not designed for multiples (hotel rooms and cars being the immediate one that springs to mind). When they are ill (or simply when things are not right) the more of them there are, the worse it is - you do not get economies of scale iro of the worrying. the mess and the effort. Also sheer hard work - unless you are both completely on board with the effort, and are prepared to put aside your own needs, then rethink. I often went to bed bone-tired, only to be woken several times in the night, then a full day of work. Mine do not like each other (they did as small children). Some do, some of the time, the rest of the time it is a battlefield. I had my youngest two aged over 36, both had a 1 in 4 chance of downs, and the 4th was not an easy baby for many reasons, which meant that during childhood, the first two were always having to 'take into account' the 4th. Don't get me wrong, it didn't "steal their childhood" but when you have two good-natured healthy children, you tend to think that No.3 will be the same. All that said, there are some lovely plus sides, as people have also said. HTH

We're sticking at 2. On days out we have one each of give our attention to.
We have 1 each at bed time.

Our friends have 3. It's a struggle on days out, swimming. Theme parks. Challenging with 3. When they are of an age where they need an adult to help/sit with on rides.

I personally feel I'd be spread too thin if we added a 3rd.

Regardless though we wouldn’t pay out of pocket for university education, provide top ups perhaps but wouldn’t be paying flat out, it’s just not feasible. Likewise getting dcs on the property ladder, tokens towards fees but not chunks for a deposit unless we win the lottery, that’s would be the same for 1 or 6 lol

I think it's easy to say 'we would want them to live at home for university and we wouldn't be paying out of pocket for university ' when you are years and years away from the situation.

In the same way that you want them to be happy and fulfilled when you are pushing them on a swing when they are three, you still want them to be happy and fulfilled when they are seventeen.

I don't see the point of listening to bloody Biff and Kipper and taking them to gymnastics three times a week for years and years and then saying 'well I know you want to do costume design at Aberdeen but it's art at Kings for you my boy.'

I have 2. A 3 year old and a 5 months old and just like you the second baby is so much easier and calmer etc. now I’ve started to thinking I could have a 3rd one:) but 100% not an option for me, i know 3 would kill me!
You are outnumbered in every aspect of your life, you need to have special people carrier car, and how on earth people wash and out 3 kids to beds every evening is beyond me. It’s barely possible with 2, with three kids and only 2 parents I have no idea how people cope. Anyway all you people with 3 kids deserve a medal, you are heros!:)
OP maybe wait till baby gets a little older and is mobile so you can then see how you get on and decide later

Costly dc are not babies.

They are teenagers. Their shoes are expensive, their hobbies are expensive. Laptops, textbooks, bus passes. They eat LOADS in the house and out for meals. Driving lessons are £30. Car insurance is £1000. Then university.

Not that I don't think you shouldn't have a third child for financial reasons but the expensive part of rearing a child is not the baby years

@FlossMoss is spot on. Also, it isn’t just the financial cost but the emotional cost of living through teenage dramas. The stress from bullying, friendship issues, boyfriend/girlfriend issues, GCSEs, A levels, UCAS. I am totally baffled why any parent wants to go through this multiple times. These things are so emotionally draining for parents as well as teens. In terms of finances, having a laptop each these days is more of a necessity than a luxury as so much education is online now, and they will definitely need laptops for university.

Then there is the logistics and extra workload. One of my friends has three children and while they were at primary and secondary school she spent every day running one or more of them to an after-school activity.

I suspect that most parents of three or more children saying go for it haven’t hit the emotional roller coaster or expense of teenage years yet.

In the nicest possible way, you aren't going to get a fair answer here. If you ask someone with 3 if they are happy with 3, OF COURSE they will say it is worth it (I have 3 - unplanned because the "2nd" baby was twins). Have you ever met anyone who would wish one of their children away? Those children are here and we love them! But that doesnt mean that 3 is definitely the right decision.

With 3, whatever resource you have WILL be more stretched. Sure, you have some economies of scale, so 3 isn't as expensive as 3x 1child - you can re-use prams, car seats, clothes (for at least a few years, teenagers less keen i imagine!). But many things dont scale so it is still much more expensive than 2. We had to get a bigger car (couldn't get 3 car seats across my lovely funny car). Holidays/travel are more expensive. Food is more expensive. Child care is more expensive. Hobbies/activites/presents. All of these things are more expensive, so your resources are stretched much tighter. Your time is also divided more ways. So if you have 3, they have less time and money spent on them. That is just a fact and there is no rationalizing it away!

I'd really recommend not trying to visualise it either way while you are full of hormones. Wait till you can make a sensible decision about what is best for your family, including the 2 children you already have and love.

(This is all meant kindly - a small part of me desperately wants a 4th despite all of the above! But honestly, everything I much more complicated with 3 and you did ask for warts and all!)