DD says she dislikes her dad (DH)

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My DD is forever saying she doesn't like or love her dad. I'm around all the time and know he does nothing to her other than perhaps lacking in emotional understanding and skill in gentle parenting. DH was once the one who didn't do the telling off much but I think he's felt it's more necessary as she's got older.

For example, she got sternly told off by DH for wiping her face on DH's sleeve at the dinner table. DD was tired anyway as she fell asleep on the sofa not long after but had left the table in tears and refused to go back to sit next to DH. DH refuses to apologise for his sudden telling off, DD is then crying too much that it's past the point of being able to reason with her about why she got told off. I suggested to both that next time DH cooks, maybe napkins could be left on the table for all and then DD could use one instead of wiping on clothes as it's a better choice. End of fiasco for all.

DD is in bed the next night then says she loves me and daddy didn't need to be around. Lots of trying to push his buttons about how she doesn't like him or love him and he's mean, etc. DH told her that made him a little bit sad but he still loved her.

They do lots together (especially as I'm sick with HG) and every now and then he'll take her out for a meal - as we both would do once in a while just the two of us. There's never any complaints when they're doing activities or have just finished an activity. She's always excited to fill me in on the details.

I thought it was performative when it started 2 years ago but she still says it when she's not tired or when we're alone and she's now 4. I can't figure out if it's a conflict of our parenting styles the fact I have made no secret to her that she's number 1 or just a phase.

Any advice?

I think threatening to throw a toy in the bin (and then doing so) isn't great discipline tbh.

She probably feels his displinary techniques are disproportionate to the offence and feels it's unfair, if so then she has a point.

Hmm from your first visit post I wondered if maybe you never told off DD but from your updates it sounds like you do in an appropriate way. It’s more like your DH doesn’t know how or when to move on after a reprimand. Could you gently talk to him about this? Maybe explain he is just modelling sulky and overreactive behaviour to her?

He didn't throw it away, he just pretended he did. Then was like "ta-da, I'm not really that mean but you should say sorry and that's why I got annoyed." I thought it was quite mean! It definitely reminded me of how DH's dad was with him (from what I've heard from DH).

@waterproofed thank you for the book suggestion, I really like Philippa so I'll give it a go.

I think it’s your DH that needs to read the book, tbh. Particularly with a baby on the way. It’s well known that young children regress when a new sibling arrives.

She’s amazing, isn’t she? How would your DH react if you asked him to read her book?

I’ve been bringing my own DH out of his unhelpful thinking/behaviour patterns (a project of a lifetime, but he’s learning) and we are reading this book together as a form of quality time/therapy. Doing this won’t be everyone’s jam, but it really deepens our connection.

Very young children don’t have capacity to manipulate adults who are hugely more experienced in relationships than the kids could ever hope to be, when they are just learning the ropes and have been on this planet all of 5 minutes.

Oh yes, they bloody well do! Manipulation is simply doing something clever to elicit a desired response from a person. I have a three year old and she can (and does) try to manipulate situations and people to her advantage. Any kid who deliberately puts on a pouty face when they don't get their way, or lies and tells Mummy that Daddy said they can do something (when in fact they didn't), or who puts on a baby voice to ask for something, or puts on that irritating whine that's supposed to be crying but doesn't actually involve tears is attempting manipulation. It's normal and not necessarily a bad thing. It's just an example of the intelligence of people. My three year old will admit to it if I ask her. They're smarter than you give them credit for.

When my three DDs were each around that age it would vary wildly which of us was their favourite parent.

I would have told her off a little sharply for wiping her mouth on my sleeve and would probably have pulled her up on saying that she didn't love her Dad.

Mostly though, I found it best to ignore much of the behaviour.

ThirdElephant I wouldn’t describe any of your examples as manipulation because they are all clearly transparent.

Manipulation involves deceit, where you’re trying to get what you want without explicitly asking for it.

Manipulation in its broader sense, as basically exerting an influence on your environment, can of course be exercised by children who are too young to understand it, they just want their needs met. And of course our children influence us and our emotions all the time - we are social and therefore relational creatures. Does that make small kids manipulative? I don’t think so. It makes them human.

But, as my 7 year old often remarks, we all have our own opinions.

Manipulation requires cognitive skills children don’t have at those ages.

So she wipes her face on dads clothes.
Stands on his leg and refuses to get off.
She hit her dad.

Dad tells her off, says a consequence and acts on it (re teddy bear)

All the while you say yes to everything, tell her she’s number one, says she apologises….. eventually. It seems like you enjoy being the favourite and giving out cuddles when she’s done wrong. You say he lacks empathy but I imagine it’s because he’s the only one trying to put boundaries in place and the only one who actually disciplines her

That's an interesting analysis you have there.

Thanks but no thanks. You have misinterpreted our household entirely.

What would you rather your DH do when she hits him and won’t get off of his leg? I ask that genuinely as I’m curious how you would’ve reacted. The leg standing sounds painful and I would probably snap.
The toy disposal isn’t great but that type of behaviour needs a really stern telling off, or a telling off that conveys the severity of the situation. You can’t tell daddy you don’t like him, hit him, wipe your face on him etc.

Does she hit you/test you like she does DH?

She's 4. Your DP sounds a bit harsh. There's no point trying to force a (meaningless) apology from anyone, and certainly not a pre-schooler. The pretending to put the toy in the bin stuff sounds either desperate or mean, you will know which.

A firm telling off, then move on, is more than enough for the scenarios you describe.

Is your DH able to invest in his relationship with DD by doing something together just the two of them? Even just bathing her or reading stories. And not rushing to clamp down on the boundary pushing of someone who has only been in the world since Steven Hawking died and Prince Harry got married (I.e. about 5 minutes, she is a baby).

OP Chichi hasn’t read the thread, it’s clearly a response to whatever your posts triggered in her and not anything you have written.

Wavypurple there are lots of ways of enforcing boundaries that don’t involve snapping.

For a situation where a child is standing on my leg, I’d get down to their level, lift them gently off my foot and explain it hurts because they are getting bigger. Then I’d make a joke, how my foot was as flat as a pancake or something equally silly. No need to raise emotional temperature over a kid seeking a physical connection with you, it’s a bid for attention. I don’t want to bat it away.

Wavypurple also, why can’t a child tell a parent they don’t like them if that’s how they feel? I’d rather know.

@waterproofed

ThirdElephant I wouldn’t describe any of your examples as manipulation because they are all clearly transparent.

Manipulation involves deceit, where you’re trying to get what you want without explicitly asking for it.

Manipulation in its broader sense, as basically exerting an influence on your environment, can of course be exercised by children who are too young to understand it, they just want their needs met. And of course our children influence us and our emotions all the time - we are social and therefore relational creatures. Does that make small kids manipulative? I don’t think so. It makes them human.

But, as my 7 year old often remarks, we all have our own opinions.

I think the attempt is enough for manipulation- it's the intent rather than the success that determines it. And it's not as transparent as you might think- I've had conversations with parents of ten year olds bemoaning their inability to get their kid off his screens. I suggested removing them and they were horrified; when they tried that in the past the kid screamed and cried and lay on the floor like a toddler. This kid was totally fine in class- it was a manipulative tactic that they were buying into, which wouldn't have been bought into in school. These behaviours first occur naturally and then, when they discover that their results are, to them at least, desireable, they begin to repeat them for effect.

Deal with it how you want, but it's a bit naive to say they're incapable of manipulation.

This does really remind me of my household op.

OP, if it makes you feel any better, we have had this persistently with DC1 from a young age. He just naturally had a strong preference for me. I have to be honest, it seemed to be innate, though DH didn’t help himself (although I get that constant rejection can be wearing). We think DC1 may not be neurotypical, which might be a factor in this.

What I will say is that when I’m not around, they get on fine. We do have different parenting styles - I don’t think that’s a terrible thing as the boundaries are normally the same, it’s more the approach (eg I will try to turn something like getting dressed into a game if the DC in question is reluctant - DH thinks they should just get on with it).

As and when you have two of them, we have a similar age gap. My approach was to tell DC1 that I loved him just as much as ever and that he was special because he was my first baby and the baby who made me a mummy. But I love his sibling just the same and he’s special because he will be my last baby.

We had a very rocky first year after DC2 was born - a combination of new sibling and Covid (first lockdown happened just after DC2 was born). But things have settled down now and they get on as well as I’d expect in view of the age gap. But it can be a rough ride.

I could have written this. My daughter has sensory processing issues and an over reliance on me maybe due to the fact I understand her behaviour better and tolerate it.

She's only 4!
I don't think a day goes by that at some point I'm not told by my DS that I'm "not his best friend anymore". For the crimes of asking him to brush his teeth before bed, not letting him eat lollies just before dinner etc

I just say that's ok, we don't have to be best friends all the time because I have to be mummy first. I still love you even if you don't like me right now (or sometimes he just gets an ok then!).

since she was a baby I'd say she was my favourite in the entire world. She'd often ask of everybody and I'd say yes.

I don't think that has been helpful.

Children need to know that loving someone else just as much doesn't mean they're any less loved. Her security is now in being at the top of the pecking order even there shouldn't have been one.

If your DH isn't saying similar to her you've set up a power struggle.

Children feel secure in families where there is a secure marriage. To know they are loved equally but differently. I think it's time for both you and your DH to tell her this. She is naturally feeling like any difficulty with her dad and she can play you off against each other. She would be happier eventually if she knew there was no power for her to do that because you and DP are loyal to each other, and to her, together.

My 4 year old comes out with the ‘I don’t love you anymore’ line after being told off occasionally & frankly, I do not tolerate the unkindness. When her words sound very purposeful, I quite firmly tell her that it is unkind & makes mummy or daddy feel very sad. Who ever it’s aimed at walks away from her & the other reiterates that she’s made them feel really sad.

No-one should be forced to love anyone but DD does love us both & she’s reacting in anger at being told no to something. Words hurt & she needs to understand saying she doesn’t like or love someone is not nice. We also spend time discussing her emotions at that particular moment to try help her learn to regulate them.

Honestly, if this was my husband hearing DD saying she didn’t love him for years on end, he’d be completely heartbroken. My DH gets a bit sad when they both run to me for a cuddle sometimes instead of him 😄 I think you need to help DD understand she’s being very unkind & hurtful to her Dad. She’s 4, she can understand that concept!

But is saying you're my favourite over and over not also hurtful? Children feel double standards deeply.

I was doing the "you do love daddy though, you like doing this and this together and you like cuddles with him." I've done the whole it makes him sad stuff but I think sometimes she wants to make him sad when he's made her sad by telling her off. As a PP said, no one likes being told off, I see that as normal in that circumstance. We have a policy of not making her hug people she doesn't want to (although she's never not wanted to hug her dad as far as I recall) and no forcing the 'I love yous'. Plus, DH has only just started saying he loves his parents recently so we don't force it too much. I've told him to ignore her as he knows deep down she does love him.

I was thinking about all of it last night and it did escalate when she started school (she's the youngest in her class) as other children do the girls Vs boys stuff which we've always avoided. It's the whole "you can't play with us, you're a boy/girl". Since then she's been very into all teddies being girls and daddy is the only boy. The baby is, of course, a girl in her mind. However, she's since asked again if he'd take her out to dinner, just the two of them. She will still include him in wanting to play all the time at her picnics she sets up or she will whisper to me "let's tickle daddy when he comes back" and we'd pile on with tickles and laughter. When I'm hugging or dancing in the kitchen with DH, she comes and joins in and says "family hug!" There is no way she hates or dislikes him, imo.

I'm the one who comforts her the way she wants and tries to understand her more. Bedtime snuggles are with DH too but I'm the one who knows how to stroke her cheek the way she likes. I'm her mum and that part to me is OK for her to have a preference over, as she will accept DH doing so if I'm not there.

We are supportive of each other, I hear him say no and will back that up if she comes to me, which has lessened over time. I think I'm going to work on making sure my support of DH sounds more supportive to DD (eg. napkins).

We had a chat about how our parents' parenting has impacted us last night and I think we could see a few things. I've ordered that book and I'll have a read and share interesting bits that jump out to me with DH if he won't read it himself. Thank you MacaroniCheeseCat that's a good way of explaining why DD and the baby are both special to me. I do understand that power struggle if DH doesn't say the same and it's certainly a point to talk about.