Constantly on the go …is this normal?

[Saffrondoormouse]

My dd is 18 months and absolutely amazing but she is ‘on’ full pelt from the moment she wakes up until she sleeps and never sleeps for more than a 3 hour stretch at a time. Usually I can get her back to sleep with a bf but a few times a week she is fully up for the day at 3am all bright eyed and friendly,
I’m more than a bit frazzled.
I’ve been to a few baby groups recently and could not help noticing that she seems much more manic and full on than other toddlers her age and I’m a bit concerned.

At groups:
She refuses to join in circle time singing, preferring instead to return to playing and exploring at these times even if I try to engage in the singing alongside her to try and get her involved.

She will run off and engage in activities by herself for quite some time before checking where I am (I think most toddlers would want to check in to see where I am every few minutes especially in a new environment?)

At home:
She will try to climb up on everything all the time - we have to keep the chairs away from the dining room table as she will constantly climb up even though we tell her ‘no’ and put her down again. To my horror fell off once.

She absolutely hates her high chair to the point she screams if put in it. We have been trying a booster instead but she will only sit and eat nicely for a few minutes before trying to leave the table or climb up on it.

She hates her car seat and will scream on journeys of more than 10 mins or so.

She will try to run off if we are out and hates holding hands so I usually have to keep her in the buggy ir sling unless in traffics safe areas.

When the door opens she will try to slip past us to run out. She also tries the locks constantly if she’s near the hall so I have a safety gate to stop her going into the hall.

She is always looking for opportunities to grab things that she seems to know are contraband like the cats tail, permanent markers, people’s glasses, the loo brush, a night brace I wear for my teeth. These things are out out of her reach most of the time but the second they are not she will swoop in like she has some sort of toddler radar! She also has an amazing sense that enables her to appear whenever you are doing something interesting (to her) but not child friendly - loading the dishwasher with knives, cleaning the loo with bleach, trying to hoover the stairs with the stair gate open etc etc 😂
She wants to investigate absolutely everything!

Developmentally she seems to be fine -she started crawling and walking very early. She’s ok on language she has maybe 25 words total and is learning maybe one or two new words a week alongside babbling. She has two naps a day both for around 90 mins.
She eats well albeit not at the table for long and seems generally cheery …

Am I crazy for worrying? We do have autism in the family and I think some of these behaviours might tick some of the boxes?

2 to 1 nap transition is difficult for most people. You just need to push through it and accept a rough week or two in the interim. I’m not surprised she’s a bit all over the place if she’s in bed at 7pm some nights and napping at 5pm with a 10pm bedtime others. It’s a cliche but they really need consistency at this age. I’m guessing your first nap is really early if she’s shattered and can’t go on by 5pm?

It’s normal for them to be quite tired and whiny going from 2-1 nap - it’s probably the hardest transition when it comes to naps. My DD has always done better with a longer wake window before bedtime so when I first went to 1 nap (at 15 months), she napped 10:30/11 - 12:30/1 then bed at 6/6:30. As she’s got older the nap is either 11-1 (on early wake up days) and bed at 7 or 12:30-2:30 and bed at 7:30/8.

Just have to keep them entertained and busy. The night wakings won’t be instantly fixed after 1 or 2 days, it does take a couple of weeks to get it right.

Her first nap is around 11.00 / 11.30am
Arrrgh you are right about trying to go till 6pm I know we should… it’s just so hard when she is really struggling to stay awake at 5pm and being cranky. I guess trying to move the morning nap a little later to maybe just after lunch would help too?

A 90 minute nap at 5pm? Nope nope nope. Ride through a couple of rough days/week and get a good lunchtime nap and solid bedtime. You must all be knackered.

Ask yourself, is it harder to keep her awake for an hour 5-6pm, or put her to sleep for an hour but then have her awake for the next 4 hours? Play the long game!

What we have been doing is letting her have a 90 minute nap at 5 then she goes to bed at 10pm
This is lunacy! Of course she’ll be tired when you start cutting the naps; DD was a grumpy little sod at first. And she’s a lot like yours: she once sprinted away from me at Waterloo station and made it the full bloody length of the place darting underneath people and round suitcases. She’s a liability. But take away the nap and she’d be at the bottom of the stairs at 5pm wanting to go to bed. We’d stretch her to 5.30 then bath and asleep by 6pm. She was gradually able to do longer and go to bed at a more normal time, but sometimes after a busy day she’ll still fall asleep early. If your daughter is tired at 5pm put her to BED at 5.30, not down for a nap then up again!

@Saffrondoormouse

Her first nap is around 11.00 / 11.30am Arrrgh you are right about trying to go till 6pm I know we should… it’s just so hard when she is really struggling to stay awake at 5pm and being cranky. I guess trying to move the morning nap a little later to maybe just after lunch would help too?

Ok so the first nap is too early. You are correct, it needs to be just after lunch. If I were you I would probably try to make it gradually later, so start with 11.30am then try 12 noon and then 12.30pm. While she's napping 11.30-1 you'll have to put her to bed for the night stupidly early (5.30ish) but as the nap gets later bedtime will be later so you can eventually do (for example) nap 12.30-2 and bedtime 6.30. You might also find that she naps a bit longer but she might not. Obviously exact timings may differ slightly but you get the gist.

Ds was a complete whirlwind, never stopped. Seen in hospital as skinny (didn’t stop moving) and dyspraxia … now 21 with the energy level of a sloth.

I had one like this. Bolted at every chance, especially from shoe shops in the shoes he was trying on. Used reins for ages. Lots of comments sbout how 'hyper' he was. Calmed down quite a bit by 3 and at 16 can be positively horizontal. We had a day from hell going to one nap but it worked and helped with the crazy early mornings.

Nap of one hour after lunch, grizzling early evening normal.

We called my eldest the Duracell bunny just like his father. They're 70 and 40 now, no different full of energy from early morning then ready for bed by ten.

Two of our grandchildren just the same. The car thing improved when they went forward facing. Try turning the car seat around go for a little drive and see if that helps

What we have been doing is letting her have a 90 minute nap at 5 then she goes to bed at 10pm.

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oh god NO. Not surprised you're knackered!

90 mins around lunch time only. She should be a bed by. 630pm and sleeping through

She sounds like the type of kid that needs to be at the park, not baby groups.

Mine would be awake until 2am with a 5pm nap!
And doesn’t go to bed early.

Typically
6:30am wakes
1:30-3pm nap
8.30pm bed.

He’s not tired enough before lunch to take nap any earlier. If he misses nap for some reason he just powers though, gets tired around 5pm then dinner wakes him up again.

Mine is like a dog, needs at least 2 walks a day. Have indoor climbing frame too to wear him out.

Apart from the nap/sleep routine you’ve described, that sounds exactly like my ds at that age. The not looking behind to check if mummy’s following and investigating rather than sitting and singing. He’s neurotypical, does a LOT of sport and is generally very energetic and extrovert, at nearly 11.

Stop the 5pm nap!!! A bit/ a lot of whinging around tea time is to be expected but she should then be shattered at a decent bedtime time, not 10pm (!!!). If my 15 month old got a 3 hour nap she'd be up past me and if she got a 90 minute nap at 5pm she'd be up past midnight!
The running around/ climbing sounds fine developmentally, if not exhausting, she'll grow out of it/ calm down a bit but you all need a decent evening/ bedtime routine. Good luck!

I work with children from 18 months - 3 and some of this behaviour is normal. Couple of red flags. You'll have to see what she's like when she gets to 2.
On the go is normal, the 2x 90 min naps are unusual.
Don't let her sleep past 2.30 I'd say. A morning nap or after lunch nap is fine. Children this age still need a nap.
The high chair thing is normal. Not interacting with other children can be a red flag. Some children can be a bit of a lone wolf though. Does she respond to you calling her name ok? Does she respond well to nappy changes?

My eldest was like this. She is seven know and has calmed down physically but is still mentally very hyperactive all the time and needs a lot of mental stimulation (and needs very little sleep). She never needed much sleep so my method was to run her ragged all day (she would usually have an hours nap by 18m) so that she would flake out around 7.30pm.

FWIW there’s ASD in my family too but the very similar behaviours that you mention weren’t ASD in my DD. I have ADHD only diagnosed as an adult and I suspect she may have that though.

And the not interacting with other children part, Ds hasn’t ever really even seen other children his age. He’s 1 1/2, no nursery yet, and everything here has been closed due to covid basically since he was born so he hasn’t had chance yet.
I took him swimming the 4-6 weeks everything reopened last year and he just ignored everyone
I don’t think you can write them off how they are with other children at 1 year!

@Saffrondoormouse

Sorry for not responding earlier - full on day today! Thank you everyone for all your replies. Lots of great food for thought here. I agree totally that she should be on one nap a day by now but when we try to introduce this it doesn’t go so well. What tends to happen is she gets quite whiny and tired in the afternoon around 5 so getting her to a 6.30 or 7pm becomes is a real struggle. If she goes to bed at 7pm w/o second nap she is very overtired and takes ages to go down. What we have been doing is letting her have a 90 minute nap at 5 then she goes to bed at 10pm. Tbh the 3am wakings have happened in both scenarios the 7pm and 10pm bedtime. I’m wondering if something external is waking get up (foxes or a noisy car and then she’s wide awake?)!

It would be worth persevering for a few weeks till her body gets into a patern and I think you will find she does sleep longer at night. One nap after lunch no longer than 90 mins then keep up till 7. She will be very ratty at first but stick with it and she will adjust 10pm bedtime is not a good habit to get into atall.

It all seems like normal toddies behaviour but I’d definitely drop to one nap at noon and a bedtime of 7pm. That should stop the nighttime wakings so it’s definitely worth persisting with it.

I haven't RTFT but your op just sounds like a normal 18m? I'd describe my DD as relatively calm but curious, and she does all the things you describe

Ps ah yes I've just seen about the naps. I'd definitely switch down to a nap a day if I were you. Just stretch out the morning play and put her down exhausted after lunch.

But everything else sounds 100% like my 18m DD (who is always getting compliments about how calm she is!)

Have you seen your average toddler lol they are WILD

In terms of behaviour I'd say that's on the more difficult side of normal - I had one like that, although he did sleep ok. He was incredibly high energy and exhausting, constantly trying to escape or climb everything. He calmed down massively at around 2.5, and is now much, much easier to deal with.

The nap transition is hard. Try getting lunch in her early - say 11am if she's sleepy by then - then straight in the cot, hopefully for a good two hours. Then early tea and bed at 6ish. Lunch before nap so she doesn't wake up hungry. The times will start lengthening as she gets older - mine was on that routine at 14/15 months, but by 18 months was napping 1.30-3ish.

I was a bad mamma occasionally my Duracell bunny conked out on the floor while I cleared up after lunch. He was then carried to bed out cold 🤣

Mine was pretty active at that age so we took her to lots of places where she could safely try to climb stuff and run around. Try a small table and chairs for her rather than the high chair?