Toddler and dogs not getting on.

[MissMollieO]

My son is 14 months old and I have 2 small chihuahuas.

They have never been a fan of my son as he runs about and is too boisterous for them I think.

We have tried keeping them separate in their own space and teaching my son to be more gentle by doing supervised play and petting. However being 14 months he sometimes Isn't always as gentle as he needs time be even with us helping.

He tries to initiate play with them by throwing toys for them and laughs and runs around however one of my dogs in particular is becoming very snappy. Sometimes he will accidentally trip over or fall near her and she growls and snarls.

She follows him around however or jumps up next to him but when he moves near her she snaps. We obviously give her into trouble but I also know she is just being defensive.

How do you create a positive relationship between toddler and dogs?!

We are trying to teach the dogs that he comes above them in the pecking order.

@JayAlfredPrufrock

Rehome your dogs.

^

This

You mustn't scold your dog for displaying normal dog warning behaviour. They might skip that next time and go straight in for the bite. The hierarchy theory is nonsense too. Can you get a trainer or behaviourist?

@Newfluff

She follows him around however or jumps up next to him but when he moves near her she snaps. We obviously give her into trouble but I also know she is just being defensive.

What does give her into trouble mean?

It means tell off.

As in with words Bertie ? I've not heard that before only heard 'give her a lesson' which around here means a smack

Could mean a small or a verbal telling off. OP did not clarify exactly what she meant so can only guess.

Also google trigger stacking and search for dog body language

This is an important one. Keep any interactions very short and positive. I've noticed with my terrier when my niece is around she gets stressed as time goes on. Being a lockdown pup she didn't have early exposure to very young dc especially in enclosed spaces like a home. My niece is loud and chaotic her movements are very unpredictable to my small dog. At the beginning of a visit my dog doesn't care and completely ignores her and couldn't care less but as the visit goes on you can see very subtle changes in my dog that indicate she's getting stressed by the build up of the noise and general chaos. I think if I left it she'd eventually growl or bark at her when she's changing past. I remove her now either before this happens or at the first subtle sign, give her a nice treat and put her in the car - which is a safe space for her

We have a chi cross yorkie that I had just before I got pg with my son - I supervised and kept them separate as much as possible but like you there was the odd 'stroke' that ended up with fur being grabbed. We ended up keeping them completely separate via a stairgate until Ds was about 3 and far more understanding and gentle.

Ddog is now 13.5 and my son is nearly 13 himself, our dog loves him so much and has done since he was about 4 ish ( took him a while to trust ds and love him ) but he's an old chap now who is nearly blind and he adores ds most of all.

I think I'm trying to say that with small dogs as you know you've got to be super careful and they can easily get hurt, it's your responsibility ( as I'm sure you also know ) to keep both your dogs safe and your ds.

There is hope that they will all get along and ultimately they will be your ds's friend - chi's are loyal little souls and I will miss our boy terribly when he goes off to the happy hunting ground.

Ah OK sorry, I'm not familiar with the nuance, I think it's Irish? Definitely means chastise in some way. It confused me at first when I heard it because give in to someone can also mean give them what they want, which is the opposite.

[quote SolasAnla]@Veterinari
The dogs are house dogs not a group of orphan wolf pups with no social interaction with their family wolf pack.

The OP thinks that she can train the dogs to accept a toddler who throws thing at the dogs, who shout, screams and runs around should come "first" in the household. It's not going to happen because the dogs don't like the behaviour.

The OP keeps making excuses as to why she is not taking responsibly for keeping the child away from the dogs. The child is the problem as it's too young to realise the behaviour is "wrong". I suspect that the child is not allowed to throw stuff at the OP and is told to calm down and redirected when the behaviour gets on OP's nerves, the dogs don't have that option.

As the child grows it will begin to understand that growling and snapping are the dogs saying "back away now". But until that happens the dogs need a protected space. They are small dogs so if the child gets bitten it's not likely to be life threatening but the OP could invest in child gates and mitigate the risk before it gets to that stage.[/quote]
So why are you posting nonsense about 'pack theory' then

Also thanks for the lecture, but what specifically about my posts and username made you think I needed you to 'educate' me in dog-child interactions?

Dear @Veterinari
So why are you posting nonsense about 'pack theory' then

I could engage and explain but as you take umbrage, I won't.

@MissMollieO

My son is 14 months old and I have 2 small chihuahuas.

They have never been a fan of my son as he runs about and is too boisterous for them I think.

We have tried keeping them separate in their own space and teaching my son to be more gentle by doing supervised play and petting. However being 14 months he sometimes Isn't always as gentle as he needs time be even with us helping.

He tries to initiate play with them by throwing toys for them and laughs and runs around however one of my dogs in particular is becoming very snappy. Sometimes he will accidentally trip over or fall near her and she growls and snarls.

She follows him around however or jumps up next to him but when he moves near her she snaps. We obviously give her into trouble but I also know she is just being defensive.

How do you create a positive relationship between toddler and dogs?!

We are trying to teach the dogs that he comes above them in the pecking order.

You probably have done this but this just popped into my head so you can completely ignore me if so 😂

Has your little one been stroking the dogs too (with supervision you think is necessary of course) - just thinking that playing is fabulous of course for dogs and kids but also very high energy I can imagine 😂 so maybe having times where he just has a little quiet times with the dogs too might help?

It might just help them see your little one as a member of the pack who brings good and positive things (use could use treats too if they react positively)

They definitely don’t need rehoming from what you’ve said ❤️ Good luck x

I'm not a professional on dog behaviour (or toddler behaviour 😂) but I have two dogs similar ages to yours and a 3 year old. Fortunately our dogs have almost always been very tolerant of our DS however there have been some close calls due to DS being too hands-on with them.

The best things we did were getting DS involved in the feeding, treats and play with the dogs (all supervised of course). So the dogs see DS put their food in their bowls and I assume they think he's a good human as he brings food 😂 same with the treats, so games in the kitchen hiding or throwing treats for the dogs to find/have but they are associating him with those rewards. On walks, DS will hold the ball and throw it, hold the leads, throw treats etc so they see play and walks as fun with DS and not threatening.

We can't leave them all alone together obviously but I certainly am more confident the dogs will either get move/walk away from DS now if they don't want to socialise with him. Sometimes they now even bring toys to him to play or want to sit on his lap (again, all supervised) and it will actually be DS ignoring and moving away from them.

If I felt there was a risk of biting even under supervision, I'd find a way to divide off an area for the dogs such as a play pen so they can be present in the room still.

Hope that helps!

I went through this with one of my very placid spaniels when my twins were about 14 months old. He air snapped at my son a few times. I got a behaviourist in to watch them all together. We had a very difficult few weeks where I thought we might have to rehome the dog. It was heartbreaking, but around the same time a friend of mine had a dog (terrier) that bit her toddler daughter’s face. I absolutely knew I could not take any chances. Ultimately the advice we had was that the dog felt threatened and cornered especially by my boisterous son. We were advised to get the dog castrated, we used lots of stair gates in the house and they were never ever left unsupervised. I pretty much discouraged contact. My twins are now 11, the dog is 14. They are all wonderful together. It turned out well for us but you are absolutely right to be getting advice. I wish you all the best of luck.

Ps for what it’s worth, I am absolutely convinced that my dog didn’t see the children as people when they were small. We never ever let the children pull, poke or jab him. They never tried to sit on him or anything. But as far as he was concerned they were annoying, noisy, unpredictable creatures and I think he reacted to them in the way that he would have done to another dog.

@SolasAnla

Dear *@Veterinari* So why are you posting nonsense about 'pack theory' then

I could engage and explain but as you take umbrage, I won't.

Bullet dodged

My youngest is 7 and I still don't leave her alone with the dog. I trust the dog. It's the girl I don't trust. She plays too roughly with him and I just think it is better to supervise their interactions to make sure she isn't scaring or hurting him and that he doesn't have to defend himself. Even if I knew for sure he would never react I still wouldn't want him feeling pestered by her. He follows me about most of the time anyway and if he doesn't I just call him out of rooms she is in.

My chihuahua x was 10 when I adopted my 9 month old grandson; it was hard but even harder when my gs got to 15/16 months, toddlers are so unpredictable dogs do NOT get it my dog couldn't cope at all.

He went to stay with a family member and it broke my heart but my dog was shutting down he was never going to adjust, and my toddler was at risk whichever way you look at it.

I trusted my dog with my life but he's a dog, there's just so many times he'd be stepped on, whacked with a toy, pulled or rolled on before he snapped.

My dog died earlier this year (we still saw him every week right up to the end) my gs is 3 and we got a puppy. The puppy puts up with a lot more because she knows no different, and my gs is a lot kinder and slightly better at understanding the dog is a living being we mustn't hurt her.

I still don't leave them un supervised we have several gates in place but I have to say existing dogs and toddlers, for me, are a big no no

I'm really sorry - I'm really calm and I couldn't make it work

Rather than shutting them in a separate room can either DS or DDogs go in a playpen in the same room? So DS in playpen and dogs out or vice versa?

[quote MintyGreenDream]@SmallPrawnEnergy I have 2 so I probably know more than you tbf [/quote]
!!

At that age I kept my dd separate from my Pom. However by just over 2 we moved to a much smaller house. From lots of supervised showing how to stroke ect she’s never hurt or bothered my Pom. Doesn’t go near her when she’s in her bed and generally is lovely around her. That’s because it was all learnt behaviour. Now at 3 they’re fine left together if I nip wee ect I wouldn’t even give it a second guess. Also novality has defo worn off so Bella doesn’t excite her ect she’s just our pet.

The dogs will be with each other- don't worry about shutting them away. Far better than the fallout of them taking a chunk out of your son.

Veterinari

Pat your self on the back.