What next with 7 yros sleep?

[Indecisivelurcher]

I need some outside opinions on this please! My Dd age 7 has had a lot of sleep problems since she was 4. We're at the point now where she has so many sleep crutches I don't quite know which way to go. Do I keep going with all this? Take some away? Try something else?

She has a bed tent, a weighted blanket, many soft toys, a worry monster soft toy that eats worries, music that plays all night for example children's meditations, a red night light. It can take a long while for her to fall asleep, during which time really she wants a parent upstairs. Some nights she will call multiple times that she can't sleep etc or has a bad thought. This is every evening. Husband and I would like our evenings back!

Some nights she will also have me up in the night 3 or 4 times. This is less than once a week but still notable that when she throws a bad night in, it's like she's just awake. She can't /won't just lie there awake without calling me.

It's 9pm now, she's repeatedly calling me, crying that she's thinking about a film she watched earlier (hook - which I now regret!). But if it wasn't that it would honestly be something else.

She tends to sleep better when it's school term time, worse in the hols. I think she does better in a school routine.

Her bedtime is 8. I usually read a chapter of her book.

And now she needs a poo... Give me strength!!!

What time do you put her to bed? Maybe it's too early before she's tired and she gets agitated so ends up sleeping later than if you waited

Sorry missed the update with 8pm is that holidays as well as school nights? She won't be as tired in holidays maybe let her stay up later. My 8 year old doesn't sleep if she's not been doing loads and can be up til about 10 weekends and holidays. It's easier to let her than have the battle

Wake her at a consistent time regardless of holidays, term time,weekends or whatever. So her body clock doesn’t get set back by lie ins.

10pm, really!!! I suspect you might be right about it being easier than having a battle, but that's the time I go to bed!

A lie in for her would be 7:30 but that's rare she's usually up at 7, wakes naturally.

I can still try both of those though. Maybe not 10pm but a bit later in the hols.

I'd still like to hear opinions on where anyone would go from here with all the sleep props.

My 7yo is not quite as tricky, but sometimes not far off. It all started at 2and a half when we got rid of her dummy...should let her have had it a bit longer. Her sleep has been dependent on me ever since!

She goes to bed and I read a story so that she settles down at 8. She wants me to'watch' her until she's asleep. 3-4 nights out of 7 she will be in our bed by morning.

One of my nieces was like this until about 10yo and is now one of the most confident and independent girls I know.

I'm just going with it until she grows out of it.

I don't have the best sleeper. He's 9.

I'd be tempted to mix it up completely.

At 7 you can talk to her. I'd say that on a Saturday, she can stay up till you go to bed (yes, till 10!). But iin that saturday make sure it's all rather boring. And then the 2 of you go to bed.

The pay off I'd that she has to go to bed, on her own, at 8 pm sunday-thursday. If she manages it, you'll have a special Friday and Saturday.

Maybe start a Friday routine of a tea out somewhere, or the cinema. A reward. But only of she goes to bed on her own in the school nights. She can stay up till you go to bed. But the other night she goes to bed without you having stay and watch her. Because staying up till 10 is grown up and it doesn't match with being watched falling asleep, so she can't have it both ways.

You explain to her that you're in the house. You can hear everything. That you know it feels hard for her. But she's getting older now and this is how it goes for older kids.

Then eventually wean her off the saturday. On a Saturday she can stay up till whenever she wants, but in her room. She can read or draw or whatever.

In the short term, you lose your weekend evenings. But, ultimately, you get then back.

Just make Friday that super special reward day!
Does ally hat make sense?

Have you talked to her about it? During the day, I mean, when you're not both tired. I found that by 7, DD was quite reasonable and we could have a discussion and agree a plan by daylight and it became easier to work towards at night. We weren't quite in the same boat as you, but she has never liked going to bed and has been quite demanding with bedtime routines.

Yes I could try that! Letting her stay up later weekends and school hols makes sense too.

What about the red light, music, bed tent... Would people just go with that for now if that's what she says she wants?

I'm planning on talking to her about it today, but haven't decided my line on all her sleep 'stuff' yet... I just wonder would she sleep better in the dark and quiet! But she's likely to be upset about removing the things.

My son is almost 8 , I'm a single mum that works full time and I need an hour or 2 to decompress in the evenings .
At 7.30 he goes upstairs and I let him watch a dvd , read books or do some colouring. Ipad and ps4 not allowed . He's old enough now that if he needs the loo or a drink he can see to that himself. He knows mummy needs to relax too

Lights out are at 9 , occasionally he's still awake when I go up at 9.30 but that's rare .
You are becoming anxious about your daughters sleep and so is she .

Thanks brolly but I don't think that's the case. It doesn't sound like she's cut from the same cloth as your boy. I can see that my ds (4) would do what you've described in the future, but Dd wouldn't go upstairs on her own and potter about them just be told lights out.

For background at age 4.5 she used to wake at 1:30am every night and not go back to sleep. We ended up being prescribed melatonin and working with a sleep consultant. So she's much improved on that at least but never been an easy sleeper. She reminds me of my mum and sister with their sleep. Unfortunately I need 8-9hrs!!!

The things she's doing now weren't an issue when she was going to bed at 7:30 and I had to wait upstairs until 8 for her to drop off. But now she's going up at 8, lights out at 8:20 say, and I'm trapped up there until 9pm or later. And then still getting called in the night sometimes. So I suppose this is my problem really. Dd is doing the same as ever.

I think you do one thing at a time, starting with the thing that is most annoying to you. So the calling. Then something else.

Someone has given my D's a nightlight recently and I am trying to work out how to make it go, his sisters are now using one too.... It is poor sleep hygiene.

I wouldn't make any changes apart from the ones that impact you. And that's the staying up there all night till she's asleep.

I wouldn't start it all till Saturday night either. Carry in as you are. On Saturday morning explain that she is getting older and you've decided that the bedtime thing is too young. So, tonight, you can stay up till I go to bed. Because you're such a grown up girl! But, being so grown up means that you can't stay all night till she's asleep. Explain that you know it might be difficult. Explain that you'll read the chapter of her book as normal on the other nights. Maybe agree to stay upstairs (fold some washing, clean the bathroom) for a while. But that you're not watching her fall asleep. Explain that if she manages it, you'll have Friday night treat night. And Saturday is stay up late night. But only if she manages the new routine on school nights.

It won't always work, I think you have to do the treat night no matter how it goes, to show it's not a punishment, but the new way for grown up girls. But, if she doesn't manage it at all, that the treat night is pared down.

Leave the crutches. Don't change too much at once.

Sorry @Indecisivelurcher I didn't mean to sound flippant.
I've suffered with insomnia myself in the past and found the more I worried about it and talked about it during the day , the worse it got .
When I finally let go of the worry it improved. I guess I was trying to get that across in a clumsy way x

I'd start by telling her she doesn't need to be asleep, she just needs to stay in bed. She can do what she likes in bed. Read, play, draw, listen to stories etc but she needs to stay in bed and she can go to sleep whenever she wants. Then I'd tell her you'll no longer be talking to her after bedtime. You'll be ignoring her shouting and if she gets up she'll be marched back to bed without a word. Do this, stick to it, it make take a while but it will work.

@Dontforgetyourbrolly no worries, you're not wrong, my attitude to Dd's sleep has been very coloured by the issues we have had with her. I gave her pretty short shrift last night, whereas if my ds had been scared by a film I'd have been more sympathetic. I do need to take that on board.

DS1 (8) is a tricky sleeper. Finds getting to sleep difficult and prone to night waking. We had years of him wanting to stay with him until he fell asleep.

What works for us is to say Goodnight, leave but come back at intervals. We started off with leaving for 5 minutes until we come back. These days he's happy with 20 minutes. He is often asleep when we go in, but sometimes we need to do another 20 minute check. It's still a bit of an impingement on the evening, but much less than sitting in his room/outside his door!

Actually at one point I had a deal to check get every 9 minutes. I had forgotten about that! I could suggest that again, and aim for more than 9 mins! At least it's good for my step count up and down the stairs...

She sounds a lot like my ds! The game changers for us were a lumie light so he goes to sleep with a half hour sunset and using meditation. There are loads of sleep meditations for kids on YouTube as a starting point, also check out yoga nidra for kids. The other thing that had some success was listening to relaxing music on an old CD player although the choice was quite limited because we had chucked out a lot of our old cds!

Is her bedroom due a bit of an update? That would be an excellent opportunity for the less effective crutches to disappear. I recently updated 7yo DD1's room, and used it as a chance to remove all kinds of crutches, collected junk (this was the biggest issue), and toys she'd long outgrown but wouldn't let go of. She has been so happy with her new more grown-up room, she hasn't even noticed the clutter has been removed.
DD1 also struggles to get to sleep, and in the past it was between 10 and 11pm before she finally drifted off. What we've found has helped is moving her bedtime to 8.30 (it was 7.30), although we try to have her in bed at 8 and she'll then read to herself for 30mins. The other game changer has been a sleep mask. Yes, it's potentially another crutch, but removing visual stimulus made a big difference to the speed she went off for us. She is now alseep by 9.30, which is still too late, but a welcome improvement.

An eye mask is an interesting idea. At least that's a more portable sleep crutch and better for the rest of us when we go on hols or need to share a room with her.

I don't think the props are the issue here (red lights etc) and I think removing those would cause chaos. I think she's dependent on your reaction every time she calls.
I'd say it's time for bed and leave her and any interaction after that I'd essentially keep silent. She knows you tend to her 3/4 times and she is craving that interaction.