4 year old says he hates himself

[PantrySnacking]

Since starting school, our son has been struggling with his identity. He states he hates himself, wishes he would die, wishes he could kill other people. He really doesn't like school.

Yet, his teachers reassure us that he appears to have a few close friends and is a very outspoken individual.

Today's event has led me here, asking for help though, I found him applying make up and looking through my stuff. When I gently asked him what he was doing, he replied "I don't want to be me, I want to be someone else. I hate me". He said it with such a broken heart I truly believe he feels this. I tried to prope him further on it and he said he wants to be a girl so he can be like me instead of like him.

I'm clueless. I tried to explain me being a woman doesn't solely make me who I am, and make up certainly isn't part of that (I barely wear it!).

But away from that, I tried to build his confidence in him. I explained how he has traits I love in him.

Help me please. I've no clue what I'm meant to be doing here. I have asked the school for help previously but they've been useless.

@PantrySnacking

This Christmas break has been wonderful with him. I've certainly seen more of his old happy self, today's remarks happened after he asked about when he would have to go back to school...

Well this speaks volumes, I would not send my son back to that school

Could you find a private child psychotherapist for him to talk to?
I'd imagine that there would be a lengthy wait to access any help through the GP.

Is it possible to take him out of school for a few days and just spend time with him one on one? Doing stuff he likes to do? Kids will often come out with what's really bothering them when they're focussed on something else- penguins at the zoo, colouring a picture, stuff like that.

I'd be concerned from a safeguarding perspective, to be honest.

Oh bless him. He sounds so unhappy. I think it's to do with school yes and I'd be pushing for more support from them.

What is it he hates about school op? Is he struggling to fit in? Is there anything that can be changed? School isn't a good fit for everyone, I used to home ed my kids. The home ed groups were full of kids that didn't fit in at school, but they were able to succeed when learning at their own pace and choosing what activities they wanted to do. I don't know if that's an option for you though. I know it's not that easy or even possible for everyone to do this.

Honestly can’t believe this thread, referring to external agencies rather than changing his school first. Jesus Christ, poor child.

Agree with 'MrsPerfect12' that it could be a phase. Its like when your kids say they don't play with anyone at school, you worry yourself silly and then a couple of days later they drop into the conversation something about someone they've being playing with!
Not trying to make this seem small but do you react upset (even just by your facial expression) because some kids create drama to get attention even if they already get a lot of attention. Esp if they see its getting to you. Know this from one of mine and I've never worked out the need for them to do this! Its been really upsetting/worrying at times and then somethings don't add up so I don't know what to believe! Not sure whether that's any reassurance or not but I do understand what you're going through to some extent.

This sounds really hard and upsetting for you to hear him say those things.

I know it might seem counterintuitive, but I wonder if it might help him if you accept and acknowledge his feelings, instead of encouraging him to use other words than "hate"? Maybe another approach could be to say something like, "Wow, hate is a really strong word. I can see you're really angry and upset. Saying you want to kill other people... you must be so angry. It's OK to be angry, but you know it's not OK to hurt people."

I think kids can definitely tell when you're shocked that they use a particular word, and it just makes them use it more. I also have a four year old who likes to say outrageous things. Maybe you can defuse the word a bit by playing an "I hate" game, where you take it in turns to list things you hate and get increasingly silly with it? eg "I hate it when the bath goes cold! I hate cabbages! I hate rainy days! I hate too-tight shoes!" Just try to use it as a chance to connect and laugh together?

I would also suggest you don't need to be terrified of your four year old. He says he's going to burn down the school, but he is four (not fourteen!) and you know that realistically he can't actually do that. It's just his way of saying how frustrated he is with it.

He needs other ways of coping with these overwhelming feelings. I would probably try to help him imagine the logical consequences behind what he's saying, so say something in response like "Wow, burning down the school, what would happen then? I guess they'd build it again. What would the teachers think? Do you think the other children would be sad? When I was a kid, I used to wish that my school would just go away sometimes too. School can be really tricky. Instead of burning down the school, though, which would make a lot of people sad, can we think of something else we can do with school to make it better?"

See what he suggests. And then maybe you could suggest talking to his teacher together about what's bothering him.

Good luck OP, it sounds tough but your little boy sounds very creative and thoughtful.

This Christmas break has been wonderful with him. I've certainly seen more of his old happy self, today's remarks happened after he asked about when he would have to go back to school

I don't think I'd send my child back tbh unless there's no choice. Are there any other schools? Any that offer flexi school options?

How does he manage socially out of school? You said he has sensory issues are there any other indications of ASC? Children with ASC can very often feel very different to their peers which can be confusing and scary for them.

Oh op this sounds so hard. Agree with pp that perhaps bullying or similar is going on?

As a very first step whilst looking into cahms etc can you firefight the symptoms he is complaining of- noise at school for example, teacher not listening. Could you have a meeting with teacher & ds and see if the teacher can make more effort to accommodate him & make him feel
More welcome. Could they offer him some quiet time each day to offer him a peaceful space, away from noise, just for some time each day? If the teacher is unresponsive to your efforts I would approach the head tbh as I find that unkind and unprofessional on their part.

You could look at alternative schools if you think a smaller or a different one might be beneficial for him. Academically if he is struggling and that’s knocking his confidence you could work on that with a tutor or at home, even him knowing what’s coming up at school in terms of topics might help him feel reassured.

It sounds like you are very close and so definitely keep talking to him and exploring the things he is saying. Can he give you examples of when he hasn’t been listened to or why he feels he is boring?

I think the make up isn’t abnormal at his age, by that i mean not a cause of concern- I can see very clearly why a 4 year old would associate make up as a new identity on the premise they didn’t like the character they were… that to me seems very logical & not necessarily a big red flag. More his words about school & his feelings towards himself.
Sending you a hug xx

Maybe he's not ready for school, is there anyway he can be held back a year if he's only 4, either that or push for more support from them or consider moving if you can.

That sounds so difficult op, so hard when he's so little, imo CAMHS is a last resort and Mermaids never!!

I’d also pull him out of school - sounds like he is hearing stuff there. Not necessarily bullying, but something is making him feel bad about himself, and giving him the language to express that (DS has also started talking about shooting everything since starting reception - it is kids with older siblings, exposed to age-inappropriate computer games).

I’d pull him out for the moment, and if you can afford a private psych, have a few sessions to see if they can give you some guidance.

Sorry, posted before seeing your updates. It sounds like spending time with you over Christmas has given him such a boost. It may well be that things settle a bit more when he goes back after Christmas but it sounds like you're doing absolutely the right thing in just being with him and loving him, and spending time with him will continue to give him confidence.

Poor little lad. He sounds very unhappy. I wonder if the hiding behind other characters is because it's difficult to express how he is feeling. Children this young don't yet have the language skills sometimes to describe big feelings or know what is 'normal' as they have little life experience. My DD has experienced anxiety from quite young and it took a long time for her to realise not everyone felt the same as she did.
Is he in nursery or reception? I'm not sure if the rules have changed but when my DD was in Reception she didn't have to be full-time until the term after she turned 5. Maybe he is not ready for school full time yet. The fact that he's been happier over the holidays is quite telling.

Just for clarity, the make-up scenario I'm not taking to think he literally wants to be a girl. Not at this age. I'm assuming it's part of him role paying, which is why I mention that, as he role plays a lot. Most of the time he is pretending to be someone else rather than just being himself.

The times I feel I see who he really is, is when it's just us at Bath time, having a cafe lunch or just us 2 painting. Other times outside that, he is usually in character.

(Sorry if my replies seem disjointed or I'm not addressing everyone btw)

I'm reluctant to take him out of school because I've spoken to parents of children with SEN who go to the school and they rave about their assistants and the SENCO. His teacher also has children on the spectrum so I would have assumed he is in a good school for that sort of support? Also, schools have waiting lists around here, not sure how easy it would to swap?

Home Ed isn't an option unfortunately as I need to work.

He says he doesn't like school as he doesn't like the noise, that there are too many rules, that people do not listen to him, that he doesn't like letters, numbers and having to always sit down.

They have a forest school, which I thought he would love as he loves being outside, but he tells me he hates it because he is never allowed to look at what he wants to look at when in the forest.

So to me, I think its because he just doesn't like rules and structure and so surely swapping school wouldn't change that?

So sorry for your LO OP, it must be difficult to deal with and upsetting for both of you. It's hard to know what the best course of action is without knowing your DS well but these are a few things that first come to mind:

1. Try school again but ask this time to speak to the special needs coordinator and ask specifically for support with his sensory needs in class. I think this could be causing a lot of anxiety for him. He is still getting used to school really and lots of children take a bit of time to adjust but it sounds as of your DS is really struggling. I would ask for regular updates and/or meetings to discuss hoe he is getting on and what is working/not working
2. Try a lot of input to support him with his mental health and understanding emotions for example watching films like Inside Out, reading books with positive messages The Worrysaurus is a good one for little ones.
3. Finding something he loves to do that he can feel successful at e.g. a hobby, sport, activity allow him to explore this and encourage him, express how well he is doing etc
4. Arrange meet ups with children from his class outside of school to strengthen these friendships

I hope that gives you somewhere to start and fingers crossed your DS is back to his old self and adjusts to school in the coming months

Having just read your most recent post aswell I don't feel swapping schools is the answer, especially if your LO is on the spectrum. He is struggling to adjust to the changes of starting school and needs support with this. I think a new school would probably just make things worse at the point.
His behaviour with the make up screams anxiety to me and it's just his way of expressing this, I would allow him as you have been but I would try to find other coping mechanisms for him too which can transfer to school aswell e.g. a sensory break box with some comforting items in it.

Was he like this before he started school? Or is it worse since going to school?

@Nellesbelles love the idea of a sensory box!
That’s genius. I think your bullet points are also great advice. Xo

Poor kid, it seems like he's really not suited to the demands of school. Are there alternative schools in your area, maybe Montessori or similar?

@sjxoxo thank you, I'm by no means an expert but know how hard it can be supporting little ones with sensory needs

Finding something he loves to do that he can feel successful at e.g. a hobby, sport, activity allow him to explore this and encourage him, express how well he is doing etc

I'd add to this to say that sometimes telling a kid how well they're doing can be off-putting to them. It's better to point out progress and specific achievements, e.g. 'You scored a goal today! Your ball control is much better than it was when you started- you're making real progress!'

Generic, 'You're doing really well/you're good at this!' is fine and dandy if they feel they are, but can also result in them feeling like they should quit while they're ahead, or like they're being judged or (if they've got low self-esteem) that you're either mistaken or lying.

He sounds just like my DSD who is currently being assessed for not autism and adhd although they think it is more likely autism. She is just like this at school, I could have written your post!

It is worth speaking with the school and taking this further. It doesn’t matter the reason, no child should be feeling like this about themselves becAuse of school.

*for autism