Would you seek the advice of a GP or another health care professional about these behaviours and traits in a 9 year old boy?

[NoFitStateMum]

My son is 9. He has no diagnosis of any neurodiverse condition at present and has no additional support in place at school.

Since day 1 in school his various school teachers have commented that he struggles to concentrate, sit still and complete work and ends to be a bit bossy and explosive in terms of social/friendship stuff, although the latter has settled a lot as he has got older.

This has settled down as he has got older but aspects are still present and new behaviours and traits have emerged which make me think it is worth seeking a medical opinion about as taken all together they seem 'different' and potentially of concern. I wonder about a couple of possible diagnoses but am trying not to be Dr Google. I don't want to be OTT either and worry that a lot of this is just normal 9 year old behaviour.

Does this list seem like there may be things that need closer inspection and is the GP where I should start please? I am going to post in the main parenting thread too.

V easily distracted
Frequently forgets to flush toilet
Often wees on floor around the toilet and all over the toilet (I.e. doesn't aim well)
Hates wiping his bottom after the toilet and struggles with it / still needs help at times
Messy eater
Struggles to use cutlery well
Was relatively late learning to reliably catch, hit and kick a ball
Ofteh lost in a dream world - still v into imaginative play especially with younger sibling and younger friends
Heightened sense of right and wrong and 'fairness' - gets annoyed and affronted about minor things that clearly feel bigger to him
Interrupts and talks and talks - often almost monologues
Doesn't like waiting in general, whether for his turn, to speak, to get the pupil of the week that seems to rotate around all the kids in the class eventually
Often knocks things over - drinks etc
Slams and bangs things - e.g. cups and bowls onto table when using at mealtimes, closes car doors with too much force, slams his drawers closed, runs up the stairs so noisily
Is bothered by some loud noises himself
Loves to spin and flop and hang and to play rough and tumble
Loves the sea and crashing waves
Often get very angry and even tearful when asked to do homework or to read school books at home
Seems to 'need' TV time to regulate - often gets very stroppy and angry if he can't watch TV or for as long as he wants to
Struggles with handwriting, cursive is a huge effort and when he attempts it at home we get tantrums and tears. Dislikes writing in general. Handwriting still looks like a 6/7 year old's unless we correct and supervise him when doing it
Loves sand / mud / slime etc
Likes to draw and loves animation, comics etc
Has to touch things e.g. in shops, when visiting other homes
Using far too much handy soap
When walking, has jump / land onto all drain covers we pass even if he has to double back or walk right in front of you to do so
Used to step on my feet lots until maybe a year ago
Needs constant prompts and reminders for everyday things
Struggling a bit socially
Often struggles to settle to sleep
Hates labels whixh he has to have cut out and is fussy about clothing and materials
Picks skin and nails (and for a short spell previously, his nose until it bled)
Gets up from desk at school during the school day when meant to be sitting and does the same when we are eating at dining table at home
Struggles to follow time, sequences (until recently he referred to days of the week mainly by their activity link as a way to work out how long it is until a certain day - didn't grasp days of the week, months of the year order etc) and struggles with some maths too
Was a slow reader until Yr3 and has turned a corner since but is still not a keen reader.

BUT is super bright and interested in everything and is confident at lots of things. He can tie his laces and can shower independently. Does lots of sport (mainly ball sports, running and swimming but lives gymnastics too). Can ride a bike and scooter well.

Thanks

The first half of that list I thought you were describing my DS (who is slightly younger).
He doesn't have all the same traits but some of them I can see are markedly different to his younger sibling. I would say he shares about 75% of them.
The main difference with mine is that he is pretty much a model pupil and quite advanced in reading etc (sorry not meaning to brag).

As I said he's younger and I'm not at all worried - I'm sure most of it is typical child behaviour.

Some of that is normal boys age 9.
Some of it is very very similar to a good friends DS that is currently be

Currently being assessed. My friends DS is a great kid but immature. His speech is a bit baby ish. He's very bright tho. He's sharp but a

Sharp but social skills are a bit lacking. Sorry for multiple posts. Phong keeps freezing

While reading your list, I spotted many of these in my dd who is 8 and speaking to other mums in the same year group the same reported there. I don’t know op, I can’t remember being that age but I do know the world I lived in when I was 9 was very different to now.

There are so many factors at play here. Generally speaking, our dc have more freedoms in that things my dc do now would not have been tolerated by my parents (obviously not including recent devastating events on the news). School seems more intense then when I was that age, they have technology available and they’re dealing with a global pandemic (amongst other things). I’m not worried about my dd as on the whole she’s happy, healthy and ok. I reckon a great number of children have anxiety right now, as do adults, so what I’m trying to do is walk the tricky balancing parent act, help them feel safe etc.

Has anyone mentioned dyspraxia to you OP?

dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/dyspraxia-children/symptoms/

Of your list about 80% is what my son is like. He has add inattentive and anxiety

Mine is 10 & about 70% of that list applies to him although he's a bookworm & really good at maths. Writing has been like making him walk over hot coals until about the last year - still avoids but no longer seems physically painful to him.

IDK really I have wondered about PDA with mine but everything has got gradually better as he's got older & he's happy.

He sounds a like my dgd and both of them seem to have way too much screen time, which I don't think helps their concentration.

Lots of typical and age appropriate behaviour bu I also thought it’s possibly dyspraxia. Can you get a referral to a good paediatric physio for diagnosis. They can assess his handwriting and motor skills, suggest strategies and exercises and get him the help he needs. I promise you it’s so much easier to deal with once you have a diagnosis and a clear course of action.

Thanks for the replies.
At various points, sensory processing issues, adhd, dyspraxia and even dyslexia and the numbers one (dyscalculia?) have all crossed my mind as possible issues but it's also hard to know what behaviour lies outside the norm. I have spoken to school who repeat that he struggles to focus and sit still at times and so doesn't alway finish work on time. And that he plays quite 'wildly' in the playground I.e. he is very active and physical. But they have never said he needs additional support so it's hard to know what is going on really.

I guess I just worry as he is now 9 and so the 'oh, he will settle down as he gets older' comments from school and others make ee wonder when.

Could be partly a personality thing I guess.

So hard to know. Just want him to have support if he needs it.

Some of those are common but altogether I would be looking for a dyspraxia assessment.

@NoFitStateMum, I've been there and done that & my best advice is to get an assessment sooner rather than later. Basically echoing what @MindTheGapMoveAlong says about a paediatric physio referrral. My DS dyspraxia was very subtle but was impacting him way more than we realised. I knew that there was an issue when he was 4/5 and tbh his school was bloody useless, as was our GP and local authority education department. I can't tell you how relieved I was when within minutes of seeing him the physio said, "well, he's lovely, articulate and engaged but obviously dyspraxic." It took me 5 years to get a diagnosis and it's not always been easy, but it made such a massive difference. Dyspraxia is wide-ranging and can range from being subtle to profound.
If it helps, here are some of the things I noticed:
Handwriting - writing from the shoulder, not the wrist - does he move his arm not just his hand? Problems forming letters consistently? Complaints of fatigue after just a few minutes of writing (feeds into homework refusal)?
Poor posture? Slumps, doesn't sit upright?
Can't sit still, fidgety, finds sitting cross-legged hard? Has to get up and move because of poor general muscle tone ( explains getting up from the table/desk)?
Sensitive to loud noises (unless he's making them ), and/or feel some fabrics against his skin, ditto 'scratchy' labels ?
Very tactile loves the feel of some things but hates others.
Can't follow instructions - tip: ask him to do one thing at a time, work up to three. Get him to repeat back to you. Don't get cross if he needs reminding or gets distracted - put him gently back on track.
Poor sleep patterns, late to be dry at night (not one we had but to do with muscle tone)?
Problems with button, zips, shoelaces -makes him slow and irritates the PE teacher beyond reason, so he hates games? Doesn't like playing team/ball sports as he's too slow/too easily fatigued?
Likes repetitive patterns, routine ( mine still drives me nuts in Tesco - if I change my mind about something, he'll put it back in exactly its original place, to a mm! Great visual memory? Mine learns whole pages of text by placement, not by the information it contains and then uses his inbuilt 'search' facility to access it. Great at complex reasoning?
I think we often forget that going for a diagnosis means ruling things out, as well as in. A medical professional won't tell you your child is dyspraxic if they aren't. If he is, then the sooner you can get help the better. Apart from the academic stuff, it'll make your relationship so much better because you'll be able to cope with, what to you will be the outside of the box thinking/behaviour, and what your DS thinks is 'normal'. Sorry if that's a rubbish explanation! Knowing how his brain works makes it so much less frustrating for both of you. Good luck.

Thanks @3WildOnes

I had thought dyspraxia would be more obvious and affect his ability at sports iyswim but maybe not?

I don't know much about all this. I will look into ir more, thank you.

Yes dyspraxia I thought also. And as pps said lots of fairly normal/personality based stuff too. M

One last thing, if you have concerns then absolutely raise them with a properly qualified professional, someone who does know about dypraxia. We went down the SEND assessment route with school and got nowhere. Dyspraxia wasn't even on the Assessor's radar. I was by her inability to explain to me what the point of the tests she was doing was and what the results meant. She just kept saying that he was a bit lazy and that's why his written work didn't match up to his verbal abilities .

Oh my god penguins!

Dyspraxia is famously underdiagnosed and many don't realise it's a neurological condition, not a physical one. A good physio would even have a fair idea if waiting list is long op.

Thank you all.
School not much help at all so far and seem to see it all as behaviour and immaturity.

Your DS sounds very like mine. We underwent ADD assessment when he was 9/10 and were told at the end he had many ADD traits but not enough to meet the diagnostic threshold. He's now 13 and nothing has really changed so we are considering seeking a new assessment. Or going for a private assessment which we know has many challenges but I fear if we don't he really will struggle with the senior years of school. If I was in your shoes OP I'd be seeking an assessment.

My DS had a lot of those traits at 9 and gradually became more mature and able to manage himself.
Around here schools do any referral necessary with the input of parents s as they know the child better than the GP.
If parents are wanting referral and school are unsupportive the GP could potentially refer but may want info from school to complete forms.
A private referral is possible but post pandemic, in our area, the waiting list is longer than nhs.

He sounds a lot like one of my son's school friends who has dyspraxia

Oh, my giddy aunt @HeyGirlHeyBoy! Be as sceptical as you like but I'm only reporting from personal experience, and trying to be helpful. It's a bloody minefield out there especially when you're being passed from pillar to post. Are you a SEND professional by any chance? If so, I'm sure you're very good at what you do; unfortunately the one who saw my DS was pants.
I'm very aware that dyspraxia is a neurological condition, thanks, but it does have physical manifestations which are sometimes easier to pick up, especially if you have a DC who is otherwise pretty average and hitting milestones. A child who's struggling with balance/ coordination, writing, or following instructions, can be dismissed as clumsy, lazy or inattentive and no one ever mentions dyspraxia.. The paediatric physio we saw was brilliant. Many of them have specialist qualifications in treating dyspraxia precisely because of the physical issues.Hence my recommendation.

Sounds just like my 8 year old DS. He has autism and ADHD.

I'd recommend an assessment sooner rather than later. A lot of that list sound like my son. His struggles have become more and more severe. His secondary school deny there is an issue even though he's in trouble every single day and has now been excluded for two days. I think they're trying to put me off getting an assessment because if he has a diagnosis they will need to make reasonable adjustments and not just send him out of every lesson as they are doing now. They know I home educate my other two and I think they're hoping I'll take him out, but that's another story.

I think you've picked me up completely wrong dopenguinsdance I was saying oh my god to how you'd been treated! Dreadful. Wasn't being cynical at all.