Would you seek the advice of a GP or another health care professional about these behaviours and traits in a 9 year old boy?

[NoFitStateMum]

My son is 9. He has no diagnosis of any neurodiverse condition at present and has no additional support in place at school.

Since day 1 in school his various school teachers have commented that he struggles to concentrate, sit still and complete work and ends to be a bit bossy and explosive in terms of social/friendship stuff, although the latter has settled a lot as he has got older.

This has settled down as he has got older but aspects are still present and new behaviours and traits have emerged which make me think it is worth seeking a medical opinion about as taken all together they seem 'different' and potentially of concern. I wonder about a couple of possible diagnoses but am trying not to be Dr Google. I don't want to be OTT either and worry that a lot of this is just normal 9 year old behaviour.

Does this list seem like there may be things that need closer inspection and is the GP where I should start please? I am going to post in the main parenting thread too.

V easily distracted
Frequently forgets to flush toilet
Often wees on floor around the toilet and all over the toilet (I.e. doesn't aim well)
Hates wiping his bottom after the toilet and struggles with it / still needs help at times
Messy eater
Struggles to use cutlery well
Was relatively late learning to reliably catch, hit and kick a ball
Ofteh lost in a dream world - still v into imaginative play especially with younger sibling and younger friends
Heightened sense of right and wrong and 'fairness' - gets annoyed and affronted about minor things that clearly feel bigger to him
Interrupts and talks and talks - often almost monologues
Doesn't like waiting in general, whether for his turn, to speak, to get the pupil of the week that seems to rotate around all the kids in the class eventually
Often knocks things over - drinks etc
Slams and bangs things - e.g. cups and bowls onto table when using at mealtimes, closes car doors with too much force, slams his drawers closed, runs up the stairs so noisily
Is bothered by some loud noises himself
Loves to spin and flop and hang and to play rough and tumble
Loves the sea and crashing waves
Often get very angry and even tearful when asked to do homework or to read school books at home
Seems to 'need' TV time to regulate - often gets very stroppy and angry if he can't watch TV or for as long as he wants to
Struggles with handwriting, cursive is a huge effort and when he attempts it at home we get tantrums and tears. Dislikes writing in general. Handwriting still looks like a 6/7 year old's unless we correct and supervise him when doing it
Loves sand / mud / slime etc
Likes to draw and loves animation, comics etc
Has to touch things e.g. in shops, when visiting other homes
Using far too much handy soap
When walking, has jump / land onto all drain covers we pass even if he has to double back or walk right in front of you to do so
Used to step on my feet lots until maybe a year ago
Needs constant prompts and reminders for everyday things
Struggling a bit socially
Often struggles to settle to sleep
Hates labels whixh he has to have cut out and is fussy about clothing and materials
Picks skin and nails (and for a short spell previously, his nose until it bled)
Gets up from desk at school during the school day when meant to be sitting and does the same when we are eating at dining table at home
Struggles to follow time, sequences (until recently he referred to days of the week mainly by their activity link as a way to work out how long it is until a certain day - didn't grasp days of the week, months of the year order etc) and struggles with some maths too
Was a slow reader until Yr3 and has turned a corner since but is still not a keen reader.

BUT is super bright and interested in everything and is confident at lots of things. He can tie his laces and can shower independently. Does lots of sport (mainly ball sports, running and swimming but lives gymnastics too). Can ride a bike and scooter well.

Thanks

A lot of that list matches my 9 year old. He is on the autism assessment pathway. He also has midline disregulation which makes him clumsy. We have had OT input and Camhs. Just waiting for the final sets of appointments that are delayed by covid.

@benelephant agree, having support in place, if needed, ready for the move to secondary is one of my main motivations as I know how hard that time is even without additional stuff going on. I'm sorry your son is struggling.

My immediate first thought was dyspraxia too.

@dopenguinsdance

Oh, my giddy aunt *@HeyGirlHeyBoy*! Be as sceptical as you like but I'm only reporting from personal experience, and trying to be helpful. It's a bloody minefield out there especially when you're being passed from pillar to post. Are you a SEND professional by any chance? If so, I'm sure you're very good at what you do; unfortunately the one who saw my DS was pants. I'm very aware that dyspraxia is a neurological condition, thanks, but it does have physical manifestations which are sometimes easier to pick up, especially if you have a DC who is otherwise pretty average and hitting milestones. A child who's struggling with balance/ coordination, writing, or following instructions, can be dismissed as clumsy, lazy or inattentive and no one ever mentions dyspraxia.. The paediatric physio we saw was brilliant. Many of them have specialist qualifications in treating dyspraxia precisely because of the physical issues.Hence my recommendation.

I think heygirl was being outraged on your behalf because of the bad advice you got- that's how I read it anyway.

Sounds a lot like my 8.5yo dd.
She can't shower independently or tie her shoe laces yet either.
I know she needs an assessment but just don't know where to start. I tried a private educational psychologist but they can't diagnose ADD which is perhaps the prime suspect.
My dd has a lot of sensory issues too with sounds and clothing.
Her vocab and speech has been brilliant, but struggling with reading as still can't sound out words easily.
Doesn't complete work in class.
Rough and tumble play replaced by lots of hanging upside down and spinning.
We can years of toilet troubles and was seen by continence service.

So following your thread with interest....

I was Miriam101! Thanks!

Your best start is to talk to the senco at school it maybe they have noticed things but can support them at school. Some of your list on their own are very common....weeing on floor not flushing etc....but if you look at coordination overall are there issues....sounds like there are, similarly other things like organisational skill, social skills. I would push for an assessment.

I spoke to the school SENCO a few months ago and she felt that on what she has seen there is nothing out of the ordinary and he's just 'a boy'. (Eye roll). I mean, he is, but if his behaviour is typical why has teacher after teacher given us the impression he isn't behaving as they expect and like others. In addition, I observe enough at home and elsewhere outside school to make me think there are issues that need more investigation.

Go to your gp but dont mention things like weeing on the floor and the soap talk about coordination. Lots of boys love weeing on floors and walls and it ditracts from what your saying...id take a list so nothing is overlooked.
If schools feel they are coping with a child they don't spend their budget on assessments.

A lot of that reminds me of DS at a similar age, he has ADHD. Symptoms have receded a bit as he has matured, and he has learnt to cope. His cousin was assessed privately for more subtle issues and diagnosed with dyslexia. The family were given a lot of advice about how to help her and they have found it really useful.

It sounds like a combination of me and DS, so ASD and ADHD.

My ds was very similar at 9, 11 now he came on a lot during the pandemic and has settled down considerably. Still finds writing challenging but his reading age has increased considerably and his confidence has grown so settled down a lot and stopped being disruptive in class.

He sounds a lot like my DSs (10&11). Particularly DS2. Both have ASD and ADHD (varying levels of H) and DS2 has dyspraxia.

DS2's ASD is a lot more subtle than DS1 (and diagnosed much later because of comparisons to others' ASD around him), but the dyspraxia causes him all sorts of trouble with writing and coordinating things. Super bright and compensates in class, but it's getting increasingly harder.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy (and @Miriam101) so sorry for my misinterpretation of your comment. It's just that that emoji is usually used sarcastically on MN. I've given myself a stern talking to and it won't happen again.

I was using the emoji towards those that treated you like that! Thanks for message.

It's vital you move on this now, before secondary school. My son did well in primary school, being super bright, barring some social issues, but never really crossed the SENCO's radar as he was achieving consistently high academic scores. He played club football and was doing well there too. I had some concerns, all on your list btw, but didn't act because the school seemed so happy with him. Secondary was a car-crash from the word go - the organisation, moving from classroom to classroom at the right time with the right books, he floundered. I had him privately assessed - result was dyspraxia. A year later, ADD was also diagnosed. He's now in his late teens, an absolutely lovely young man, but has never achieved academically what he is capable of.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy, you're welcome. Bloomin' emojis!

@NoFitStateMum

Thank you all. School not much help at all so far and seem to see it all as behaviour and immaturity.

Its possible it is.

Its being noted that many kids are behind where they should be for things like concerntration due to lockdowns.

It could be something or it could be nothing. I think one of your problems here is because if there is an issue its fairly mild unfortunately.

It sounds very much like typical ADHD.
30% of kids with ADHD will have a crossover with dyslexia/dyspraxia and other neuro-diverse issues.
In my experience school senco's are absolutely useless. Schools have so little funding it's not in their interest to investigate learning disorders.
My now 17 year old Ds was diagnosed with dyslexia at 9 by an independent assessor. He's just been diagnosed as having moderate to severe ADHD by a private assessor. But he's already in his final year of school!

I think there's enough on your list to warrant further investigation by someone who is not school. It all sounds very familiar to me, and my DS has dyspraxia and ASD.

One thing I would say is that 8/9 is a really common age for things to sort of reveal themselves. Social communication, complexity of the world generally increases, school starts to demand more ' grown up' behaviour, friendships deepen rather than being just kids running around a playground.

My DS went through a diagnostic experience when he was 3 which took years, was incredibly difficult, and didn't really get us anywhere. School asked for us to reassess him around 9 and the pead basically turned round after one 20 minute conversation and said 'I'm going to do the ADOS because it's important to do things properly, but you should absolutely assume ASD.'

The dyspraxia was a surprise bonus!

One thing i would say with dyspraxia is that it's more than simple co-ordination issues, there can be a real impact on organisation and functioning. When this reaches high school and exam years, it can actually be devastating. It's very misunderstood.

I would absolutely ask for a referral for an assessment if I was in your shoes.

Very much like my dogs, although dgs isn't so extreme. He is extremely fussy over his food and there's very little he'll eat. Can't concentrate. Very excitable, impatient and sometimes aggressive. He was diagnosed with ADHD a few years ago.

Thanks for all the comments. I am reassured that I'm not overthinking this all and have made an appointment to dicuss with my GP.
The points made about his age being one at which problems can sometimes become more obvious and also about the importance of getting things sorted before secondary school have really hit home. It may well be nothing of course, and just a pandemic/lockdown thing, but if there's a diagnosis that is made it will he good to know that sooner rather than later. I just want my son to be happy and to achieve his potential. Your stories and comments have been really helpful so thank you all.

Gosh he's so similar to my 12yo who has now grown out of most of these things apart from biting his nails and being obsessed with phones/tv

I was ticking off your list as I went down - yep, yep, yep!

It's never really affected him that much and he is a whizz at maths and very clever academically.

He's just quite immature and likes his own company. We just encourage him to join in with stuff and let everything else slide.

I'm sure he won't be affected in adult life - he's just a bit 'odd' really (in a nice way)

Our 8yo has autism and ticks every single thing on your list, particularly the monologue-ing and constantly needing prompting for everyday tasks. He struggles with bum wiping despite being toilet trained since 2, and the OT said because he has sensory processing issues (he’s very much a sensory seeker), he struggles with proprioception and doesn’t recognise where his hand is when he reaches round to wipe and he can no longer see it.

Hi OP, my DS is younger at 6 years old. I've gone through your list and a lot of the things my DS "ticks" as well and I have to admit they are things I'm keeping an eye on as I don't think they're all that typical. Some don't surprise me at his age, like forgetting to flush the toilet, but the distraction and a few other things I've noticed does set him apart from his peers.

I think my DS probably has ADHD/dyspraxia, or similar. I have recently referred him via a GP, it's a long wait but I'm glad to just have the process moving as I feel something will be done, and hopefully by the time he gets assessed it'll be clearer either way (I understand that they don't assess for ADHD until age 7 anyway).

V easily distracted
Frequently forgets to flush toilet
Was relatively late learning to reliably catch, hit and kick a ball
Heightened sense of right and wrong and 'fairness' - gets annoyed and affronted about minor things that clearly feel bigger to him
Interrupts
Doesn't like waiting in general
Often knocks things over
Is bothered by some loud noises himself
Loves to spin and flop and hang and to play rough and tumble
Loves the sea and crashing waves
Struggles with handwriting
Has to touch things e.g. in shops, when visiting other homes
Needs constant prompts and reminders for everyday things - but will also often just get dressed on his own initiative
Fussy about clothing and materials - likes joggers, dislikes jeans
Gets up from desk at school during the school day when meant to be sitting and does the same when we are eating at dining table at home

BUT is super bright and interested in everything and is confident at lots of things. Can ride a bike and scooter well.