I'm at my wits end with my nearly 5 year old

[Iwasonline]

5 next month.

I am so so fed up of parenting him. He's such an engaging, chatty, curious child. But my goodness, I hate parenting him.

Everything leads to defiance. He can't seem to behave properly no matter where we go - I always end up removing him from somewhere kicking and screaming while my 3 year old happily trots alongside. He won't tidy. Won't get dressed. Won't brush his teeth. Won't use cutlery. All of this....if we ask him to it's a no, he will only ever do it all on his terms.

He is busy, has zero off switch, has no understanding of people's boundaries. I hate it when he licks or sniffs my face, yet he persists.

He regularly his urine accidents. Poohed under his bed last week. He regularly runs out of the school gate when his teacher hands him over to me.

My mum says I act like he will just do as he's told when I tell him and that kids don't do that.

School have said he's fab and doing well. We have a lot of emotions and violence at home. Although the violence is slowly becoming less frequent. More like a few times a week rather than daily.

School have referred us for a parenting course, at our request. The team at the hospital got us to do a questionnaire but said there are no signs of autism. He's still under the paediatrician - gluten intolerance, dairy intolerance, hypermobility and sight issues. I need to do a self referral to cahms but the waiting list is SO so long that I can't even summon the energy.

Please someone tell me I'm not just completely and utterly shit. I feel if I didn't have the two boys 12m apart then I wouldn't have failed so badly at parenting him

He sounds like my eldest who has ADHD. I didn't have my second until he was ten and I didn't even realise that his behaviour wasn't normal until I had a normal toddler, so it's probably nothing to do with the small age gap!

It did get better, 6 and 7 was a huge improvement and I actually found myself enjoying spending time with him again instead of just finding it all exhausting. He's so full on though. He's 13 now and it's lifted a bit again as I've relaxed finally over screen time and he's a bit more independent getting himself out and doing stuff with friends etc.

I'm sorry to say I'm not sure a standard parenting course will help. However it is pretty useful to be able to specifically say we've used X method and it doesn't work because xyz.

Have a look at the book the explosive child.

Get on the cams waiting list... You may as well be on it. They are not much use because they're so ridiculously underfunded but it's a foot in the system if that makes sense.

I listened to the explosive child book on audible. But it just didn't seem to fit him somehow. I'll try it again, definitely.

He doesn't seem to understand consequences. He doesn't really ever have genuine remorse or sympathy. If he breaks something, he doesn't care. He gave me concussion (by accident) and only got upset when I left the room (I was struggling to stay conscious!).

Sounds like your doing your best but in tricky situations. He sounds like he really wants his autonomy. Would recommend the book 'how to talk so little kids will listen' it gives really helpful advice on how to frame things when you're asking your kid to do something so that they feel they've contributed to the decision. Really helped me

Have you looked into PDA?

If your son is neurodivergent in some way the parenting course will almost certainly not take that into account and it won't be relevant.

Also read how to talk so kids will listen. Have tried the strategies. I agree. They're super useful. But equally, much of it either doesn't seem to match with his maturity levels or he doesn't have the understanding of. Think of it like a 2 year old tantrumming with that level of separation anxiety. But with the desire for independence of a six year old. He likes to make his own snacks (we've locked the knives away), will fix his own breakfast- at his desire, not my suggestion.

Pda fits him brilliantly. I can't work out how he presents so well in school- albeit a little immature, as far as I can tell.

He's such an engaging boy who just thrives on adult attention when he's controlling the situation. Or, I guess, in the routine of school.

In my area, both me and husband have to complete this parenting course before additional support is considered. It's just the way it is around here. Ironically, about 8 years ago, I was trained to facilitate these types of courses in the home as a family support worker

How do you try to discipline him? What methods have you used?

Would he respond to a sticker chart for good behaviour?

Time out - both with or without me
Remove from place in question
Banning screen time
Removing toy
Quiet time
Sticker chart
Discussion of behaviour afterwards
Naming feelings
Ignoring poor behaviour
Shouting

I can't think of what else I've tried. I think I'm fairly consistent. Generally I just end up restraining him when he bubbles over. I've sat on the school playground restraining him before!

He loves a sticker chart. I tried a few weeks ago. He seemed to understand the behaviours required to get the stickers. Knew he had to add a sticker when he had done well. But then it all went a bit weird after 2 days and he just went full on adding stickers everywhere and the only way to stop it was restraining him and taking everything away. Full on tantrum ensued

Glad you have looked at PDA. I have one with ASD/PDA and ADHD and thought that is a possibility when I read your post.

Try PDA strategies (find them at the PDA society) and see if they work. This is when everything changed for us. A good summary is here:

autismwestmidlands.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/PDA-1.pdf

It can be a huge struggle to get a diagnosis if they are good at masking and often you cycle through other diagnoses before you reach ASD/PDA.

Can you afford a private diagnosis?

Usual parenting strategies really don't work with children with PDA, you are effectively setting them up for failure. Sticker charts might work for a very short period but then will fail. The accumulated failure is very damaging to their sense of self.

It just feels like everything fails. I'm at my wits end. He's beginning to get too heavy to carry around a shop. He's over the weight limit on a supermarket trolley but I have to put him in as it's the only way i can do it. My 3 year old walks around beautifully.

Currently we are very low earners. Husband is a student. I might try and save up soon as I've just picked up some extra work. We are paying monthly for a private OT despite both being in our overdrafts every month.

Even so, a diagnosis isn't going to make him easier to parent. We have a party to go to tomorrow and I won't know anyone there and I'm absolutely dreading wrangling both boys on my own

A diagnosis (if one is needed) is important for lots of reasons. It can point you in the direction of and give you access to the right resources, mean you get an EHCP which is fit for purpose. Perhaps most importantly it is important to the person who receives it as it allows them to frame what is happening when they are older.

Apparently he doesn't have enough areas of weakness for am ehcp. According to preschool. Obviously he is at school now

Sorry OP, I can't offer any advice other than my 4.5 year old is exactly the same. Behaviour has improved over the past few weeks, but I really struggle with simple instructions (like the tasks you have listed), tried lots techniques, lots of consequences and nothing, and I mean nothing works. He's so independent, defiant and headstrong. What I struggle with most is consequences; he just doesn't care about natural consequences, or me imposing tough consequences 🤷‍♀️. I honestly feel like I'm talking to myself, or he's deaf.

If he is somehow very good at school, could it be the structure that helps him? It will be telling him what to expect when as well as set times to be more independent (playtime etc.)
It might be a bit restrictive timewise but would it be worth making him a timetable for all of his time awake and follow it for a couple of weeks to see if it helps him?

if we ask him to it's a no, he will only ever do it all on his terms. THIS.

Don't ask him, TELL him he's going to put his coat on/brush his teeth, whatever it is. Tell him he will be in trouble if he doesn't do as you've told him. When he refuses, take away toys/favourite things. PRAISE him when he does the things you've told him to do. When he's behaved well, give him a sticker, or something small like that. When he's managed to be good all day, he gets a special treat (something small like a biscuit for example).

Sounds a lot like my DS, possibly more extreme but mine has his moments! I suspect ASD/PDA... as soon as I read about PDA it was a lightbulb moment. I read the PDA society website and have been following their advice and strategies. They really work. There is also a book "the family experience of PDA" by Eliza Fricker that's easy to read and helpful.

We are a long way off a diagnosis (if we ever get one) but whether he gets one or not, the strategies are helping at least.

Good luck. Know that it's definitely not you.

İ have hypermobility. İ don't know if you know this about hypermobility, because it isn't well documented, but one of the symptoms of it is that we release a lot of extra adrenaline all the time and it needs burning off. İt sounds like he's feeling that great big rush of excitement for no reason and is living through it. İ would just try to find ways to let him burn it all off, probably in a large park everyday and try to avoid situations where he could get over excited.

@TheCreamCaker agree with this! There's no point asking a 5 year old to tidy up, if he knows it's optional what sane kid would do it

@Peppapigforlife that's really interesting. He does almost constantly seem to be in fight or flight mode. We do massages designed to calm his nervous system. I'm not brilliant at getting him out in the winter but am very hot on it the rest of the year.

@UmmAyisha @TheCreamCaker
Genuine question. How do I even begin to do this? This is a child who will happily battle over every single aspect of getting up and out in the morning. If the tshirt feels wrong the only thing to do is change for another- I can physically wrestle it onto him but he will continue to resist.
If breakfast is wrong it won't get eaten or will get thrown.

If the toothpaste is the wrong flavour it will be a violent tantrum. Or he will just arse around over it if the toothpaste is OK. Eg refuse or end up with toothpaste all over his face.

Apparently he doesn't have enough areas of weakness for am ehcp. According to preschool

The same was said of my child, over and over again, especially as academically they were doing so well. They masked all day and fell apart at home. The outcomes for children with ASD/PDA are poor as they tend to fall apart around the transition to secondary/first year of secondary.

My child now has an EHCP which reflects their needs very well and describes the strategies that need to be used during the day so they can manage at home.

It takes a very skilled and experienced clinician to see beyond the masking etc.

He sounds exactly like my ds, not diagnosed until aged 9 when we had a complete autistic burn out.
Read all you can about pathological demand avoidance.