Is my 10yr old DS's behaviour normal?

[BrokenArrows]

For those of you with 10yr boys (or who have recently had one that age) - would you consider this fairly normal behaviour? Apologies in advance, this is long. I've only just realised after reading it through

Meal times: I feed my two DC (DD is 3) earlier than my husband and I eat (we eat once they're in bed - long story). My son cannot sit at the freaking table. He gets up, fiddles around with the TV, the Alexa, my daughter’s toys that are in the room, watches something on the ipad at the table, he'll get up and start flopping around on the floor, pesters my daughter, makes stupid sounds, etc. He can get so side tracked with all these things that the process of eating a plate of food can take 30-40 mins. He can eat it quicky if he wants to, but most of the time he doesn't. Meal times are sooo stressful for me. I just want to cry. I feel so defeated and awful for the constant nagging, and eventually yelling out of sheer frustration because he just won't freaking sit down and eat.

During a film: He'll sit on the sofa with my husband, but will have the remotes in front of him on the coffee table. He cannot leave them alone. He's constantly touching a button on them to see how long is left of the movie, or trying to rewind a funny part. Sometimes he's bouncing around on the sofa as well. He'll often end up messing up the moving and accidentally starting it from the beginning again.

In the car: If he's on his own he's usually fine. He'll read a book. But throw my daughter into the mix and he's pestering her, taunting her, she's whining and he's winding her up, he'll kind of bounce up and down in his seat so it shakes the whole car, says things that will upset her. Driving with them is a nightmare.

At home: He's obsessed with technology and gadgets. We've got an alexa, an apple home pod, etc. He'll constantly be fiddling with them, turning them on to play music, setting alarms because he thinks he's being helpful. Trying to turn on the TV. My daughter will ask for peppa pig. We'll put it on. He'll switch it to something else 2 mins later, leaving her whining and crying that he's changed her show. Then he'll say he's going to put it on again and he'll put it on Youtube. Then change the episode half way through again leaving her whining and crying.

Homework: It could take him 2hrs+ to complete a few pages with 5-10 questions on it. Again he'll get distracted, turn the tv on, flip on the sofa, flop around on the ground, basically do anything but his homework.

Bedtime: We somehow got into the habit of my son reading my daughter her bedtime story. She's normally so exhausted once she's out of the bath, so I'll call my son up to read and I will have to call him 5-10 times before he comes. He'll make excuses like 'you never told me' or say 'I'm coming' but it'll take 10-20 mins of nagging. By this time my daughter is so tired. My son gets in her room and then starts jumping on her bed and winding her up again. He'll start to read her book, but might read it in a super fast voice slurring his words. I'll then have to nag to get him to slow down and I'm getting stressed out, daughter is tired and cranky and then getting herself distracted and off my lap, he'll get annoyed and say 'ok, I'm leaving no book' which will make her upset and cry. I'll have to yell after him to come and read the book. This craziness can go on and on for 20 mins or more. I swear I'm getting heart palpitations just writing this all out. I've tried to read the books to her myself and she gets so upset and insists on him reading or she just kicks up the biggest tantrum.

I cannot handle being in my house anymore. My kids are both driving me insane.

I have really just felt extremely defeated the past few months, but this weekend has left me feeling very low. My son is constantly acting up. Doesn't listen no matter what I say. He was always such a pleasant little boy, but as he's got older (it started about 7-8yrs) he's become a real handful, and is now quite rude, gets very down on himself saying he's bad, he's stupid, no one likes him, he doesn't know how to behave, etc. The hours between 5-10pm are absolute chaos in my house most of the time, starting out with dinners, then bath and bed times. It drags on and on.

I have suspected for a long time that my son has ADHD. My husband insists he doesn’t and will not let me get him assessed. He gaslights me into thinking that this is completely normal behaviour for a boy (but the husband gets equally frustrated and yells at my son too). It’s just not a good environment for anyone. But my husband grew up an only child and his mother never punished him and basically still thinks the sun shines out his ass. My son now speaks to me quite rudely, and can be a little aggressive at times. It scares me. My husband does nothing to enforce any kind of punishment and makes loads of empty threats, but never follows through with them. I can’t even remember what it was, but my son did something (I think spoke to my husband very rudely) and I told him to go for a time out in the bathroom for 5 mins. He refused, I tried to get him in there, and then said to my husband – so you’re not even going to do anything about him saying that – and he replied with “I don’t believe in timeouts”
I’m ay my wits end. I’ve felt so defeated this weekend I’ve not even had dinner yesterday or today. I’ve just been so stressed and so down I can’t be bothered. Please tell me this isn’t normal behaviour? I don’t know what I can do to get help, but I’m so down I just want to run away from the noise and chaos of my house.

I think if he had ADHD school would've picked it up. It's more likely he has no boundaries at home. Dh is really not helping and you need a good chat to get in the same page. Maybe after the things which are acceptable or not and then tackle them. I don't know if you're exaggerating but 20 mins waiting for him to come and read a book is not ok. Stress he understands the importance that his little sister loves it, and it's great for the two of them? Do you praise him a lot when he does it well or just take it for granted?

As an aside, I don't know why you wait to eat dinner with dh. He doesn't sound that pleasant.

It’s not his job to put your daughter to bed.

My 9yo dd has ASD and sounds quite similar especially the pestering behaviour and very fast speech. It is hard work, and she needs close monitoring and a lot of attention to keep her behaviour acceptable.

@MerryMarigold

I think if he had ADHD school would've picked it up. It's more likely he has no boundaries at home. Dh is really not helping and you need a good chat to get in the same page. Maybe after the things which are acceptable or not and then tackle them. I don't know if you're exaggerating but 20 mins waiting for him to come and read a book is not ok. Stress he understands the importance that his little sister loves it, and it's great for the two of them? Do you praise him a lot when he does it well or just take it for granted?

As an aside, I don't know why you wait to eat dinner with dh. He doesn't sound that pleasant.

My son struggled with reception - yr 2 at the first school he was in. He loves school, but the teachers there said he ha trouble sitting still on the floor and paying attention. My husband and I moved, and put him in a new school (this time private with smaller class sizes) and the first year he was there was very difficult. The school was quite upset with us becasue we didn't disclose the issues his prevous school raised. Husband again insisted that everything was fine and it was the school, not my son. We ended up paying for a private SENCO type person to come into the school and assess my son when he was about 7. The person who assessed my son said he was a very bright and enquisitive boy, but was just immature (he's the youngest in the class). Over the years, he's definitely matured (as kids do!). He loves school and reading, but the school has really worked with him along the way to help him. Even moving him to the front of the class and giving him a little screen he can put around his desktop that blocks out distractions. My husband is refusing for me to get him tested becuase he says he's been through enough stress the first time when my son was assessed (I've spoken with my son's Dr and they said that sometimes ADHD cannot be diagnosed until a little later thant 6-7yrs). My husband is worried that a diagnosis will go on his record and he will not be able to get into the secondary school that he wants to.

I have a 10 yr & 9 yr old boy plus all their mates to base this on.

Some of that you have described is usual in our house some of the time. Like 1-2 meal times out of 14 a week, or one film every few weeks. They both just act soft, and piss around winding each other up. For various reasons, as brothers do. But it’s equally matched because of their ages.they’d never upset younger cousins.

However, no, I don’t think it’s normal sorry. I couldn’t imagine that behaviour in mine or with any friends kids (from what they mention).

The book with the baby sounds a nightmare, so you could stop that?? Not fair on baby.

Could you try all the usual things again? Earlier bedtimes? More help from husband at bedtimes? Same routine? Our bedtimes involve a dance each night who’s getting a bath first but it’s over in 20 mins, although irritating, and they’re always in bed by 8.30 or earlier, asleep definitely by 9pm (& not up until 7.30am) 💐

@MrsSkylerWhite

It’s not his job to put your daughter to bed.

I know that. I hate the routine! HATE IT!! Every time I've tried to stop it, it ends with my daugther in tears, and things just get even crazier. I stopped them bathing together about a year ago becuase that got so noisy and messy I would physically have to leave the room becuase it made me so stressed out and anxious. I need to figure out a way to get out of the routine of my son reading to her. She adores him. But perhaps I pretend he's going out of the house with his dad to the shop or soemthing so she knows he's not home and then she'll be ok.

But yes, I completely agree

I'm so sorry OP, that sounds really hard.

I sympathise as I have one of those except he's 11 now. I've also wondered if he's got ADHD but then he can be so calm and reasonable sometimes that I end up thinking he's just 'high spirited' and energetic.

I think the trick is to work with the child you have (not what you think he should be like) and reduce the demands on him (gradually make the move away from him reading to her, to you doing it). Praise him for every good thing he does, even if minor.

You'll get there in time (but do push for a diagnosis!)

That sounds very like my friend's DS who has ADHD. I think you should get him assessed. It's not fair for him to go through life thinking something is wrong with him when he may well have a condition that can be helped and understood.

It also sounds like he is emotionally immature as I wouldn't expect any behaviour like that at 10 years old.

It sounds very hard for you to maintain discipline with your husband undermining you. But it sounds like you need to create some boundaries and some consistent consequences for behaviour.

Your DD doesn't get to dictate who puts her to bed. It sounds fraught for everyone. Maybe you could make it sounds like a treat I.e. she can choose a new book that you will buy her and it will be a special book for you to read with her. That breaks the old habits and creates a new one.

Also, your husband sounds awful. Are you happy to spend the rest of your life living with someone who behaves like that?

He was always such a pleasant little boy, but as he's got older (it started about 7-8yrs) he's become a real handful

So this started around the time his sister was born, if she’s 3 and he’s now 10? I think that may have something to do with it? A lot of his behaviour sounds like he needs attention and boundaries. Do you and your DH spend any 1:1 time with him? Does he get his own story at bedtime? 10 is still young and you can still read to him at bedtime.

Don’t underestimate how hard it has been for kids his age in the lockdowns either. He’s had to contend with covid, being out of school/homeschooling and a new baby sister all in the last three years. It’s a lot. At 10 hormones may also be kicking in too as he approaches puberty.

@Superstar22

I have a 10 yr & 9 yr old boy plus all their mates to base this on.

Some of that you have described is usual in our house some of the time. Like 1-2 meal times out of 14 a week, or one film every few weeks. They both just act soft, and piss around winding each other up. For various reasons, as brothers do. But it’s equally matched because of their ages.they’d never upset younger cousins.

However, no, I don’t think it’s normal sorry. I couldn’t imagine that behaviour in mine or with any friends kids (from what they mention).

The book with the baby sounds a nightmare, so you could stop that?? Not fair on baby.

Could you try all the usual things again? Earlier bedtimes? More help from husband at bedtimes? Same routine? Our bedtimes involve a dance each night who’s getting a bath first but it’s over in 20 mins, although irritating, and they’re always in bed by 8.30 or earlier, asleep definitely by 9pm (& not up until 7.30am) 💐

I basically look after my daughter, and my husband looks after my son when it comes to bath and bedtimes. Hsuband helps get my daugther changed (she is quite strong willed and sometimes if she's being difficult it can take 2 of us to get her PJ's on). But once she's out of the bath he's gone, leaving me with the stress of both of them messing around in her room. Once my son says goodnight to her (anywhere from 8-9pm because the whole mealtime process takes 2hrs) and gives her a hug, she's pretty much out for the night and doesn't wake until after 8-9am. My son then goes into his room where my husband is waiting for him, and they will work on a bit of homework or do some school reading, etc. Son again gets disctracted, husband gets annoyed, etc. Getting my son to bed can take my husband over an hour.

I have three DS's, youngest is 10, and this behaviour doesn't sound 'normal' to me either. It sounds exhausting and chaotic for you.

Regarding meal times: I understand the three year old needing to eat earlier and get to bed, but at 10 would he behave better sat to the table with you and your DH having a conversation about the day? Treated in a more grown up way? Just one idea. I think you need some help and your DH needs to step up and support you, especially with regard to the way your DS has been speaking to you.

To add to this, my DH is indeed a bit of a dick. He gaslights me all the time, is verbally and emotionally abusive and causes me a lot of anxiety. I suspect I have ADHD as well, but he says I'm just making excuses and I need to step up and take responsibility for my actions.

I have had terrible anxiety and bouts of depression since vocid and lockdown started that have been made much worse by him. I managed to get 6 weeks of telephone councelling on the NHS which was basically just a place for me to vent. The councillor referred me for telephone CBT therapy, but once I started talking to the woman about my issues and the things that made me anxious (my sons behavior and the fact that my husband won't let me get him help, along with the things my husband says to me when he's stressed out) really caught her off gaurd and she was concerned for me. She told me that she would have to talk to her supervisor. The next week she basically said she couldn't treat me anymore, and said I should contact the local domestic abuse service instead to get help. I haven't

My husband follows a special diet and cooks all his own bery plain and bland meals, and eats 6 meals a day at all kinds of random times. I cook and eat my own meals once the stress of the day has finally ended. It's my only peace. I do try sometimes to eat with the kids. I make my son and myself a meal to eat together (daughter is too picky to eat the same as us). But if I'm sat at the table trying to eat with them, my daughter will try and sit on my lap, or inevitably one of the kids will do somethinng to my plate of food by accident (daugther sticking her fingers in my food or coughing on it) which gives me anxiety over covid and germs, so I end up standing and eating my meal at the kitchen counter instead. Not plesant or peaceful.

Also, mealtimes sound like there are no rules. My DC were not allowed to leave the table at mealtimes or watch an ipad so if they have nothing within reach to distract them it's a lot harder to get distracted. Can you reward him with TV after dinner if he sits down and eats it properly without getting up from the table? It really sounds like there are no boundaries, no rewards for good behaviours and no consequences for bad behaviour. Whether or not he has ADHD the whole family would benefit from having much stricter boundaries.

So if for example you have dinner at 6pm. If he's finished his meal and not got up from the table by 6.30pm he can have 30 mins TV while you give your DD a bath/brush teeth etc. Then he can have his bath while you read with your DD and put her to bed.

It also sounds like it would help to alternate bedtimes so you put him to bed every other day while your DH puts your DD to bed. It seems odd that it's always your DH who puts him to bed, and doesn't sound like he's doing it in a helpful or positive way either.

Your sons behaviour doesnt sound normal to me. He sounds alot like my nephew and he has autism and adhd. He has often had trouble being fidgety and been quite disruptive he is only really settled if he is playing on his tablet, he has also mentioned before that he doesnt understand why he acts and feels the way he does. At school he had trouble concentrating and they have tried several different techniques to help him but one thing that has helped is him having a piece of blu tac to fiddle with, im not sure why but it does help him to focus.

My nephews dad also didnt want him tested as he didnt want him to be labelled but my sister went through with it anyway and did it without him because that way she could get medication and support to help him.

You shouldn't have to spend everyday fighting to control him when there is potentially help out there for you. Without help it wont get better as he gets older, he could end up struggling at secondary school, college and struggle to get jobs if he cant control his behaviour and his feelings so for his own sake its better to get him help now, especially as it can be a long process to get help its better to start that process as soon as you can.

@Fadette

Also, mealtimes sound like there are no rules. My DC were not allowed to leave the table at mealtimes or watch an ipad so if they have nothing within reach to distract them it's a lot harder to get distracted. Can you reward him with TV after dinner if he sits down and eats it properly without getting up from the table? It really sounds like there are no boundaries, no rewards for good behaviours and no consequences for bad behaviour. Whether or not he has ADHD the whole family would benefit from having much stricter boundaries.

So if for example you have dinner at 6pm. If he's finished his meal and not got up from the table by 6.30pm he can have 30 mins TV while you give your DD a bath/brush teeth etc. Then he can have his bath while you read with your DD and put her to bed.

It also sounds like it would help to alternate bedtimes so you put him to bed every other day while your DH puts your DD to bed. It seems odd that it's always your DH who puts him to bed, and doesn't sound like he's doing it in a helpful or positive way either.

There are no rules. My husband doesn't really do rules. There is no consistency. It drives me bonkers. If I try and set a rule, or some boundaries my husband does nothing to support me or enforce them. It's mental. Husband will just throw out empty threats that are stupid and meaningless by yelling things like "that's it. The iPad is gone. It's gone forever". Husand always uses the words "gone forever" and then the next day (or even a few hours later) it's back! . It also really pisses me off that when he tries to punish my son, he'll often get frustrated and yell, and then yell for me to take the ipad away, or take the remotes away or do something. Why do I always have to be the bad one??

If I say to him that he doesn't support me or enforce any rules it gets thrown back in my face with a load of verbal abuse and gaslighting, so I usually just keep quiet now

OK so ultimately it sounds like your first step needs to be to get help for DV. Can you call Women's Aid or speak to a local DV charity? It doesn't mean you're committing to leave him or anything but it would be helpful for you to speak to someone about how he treats you as I think you perhaps don't realise how bad it is.

It will be impossible for your son's or your own situation to improve very much while you are all being emotionally abused and living in an atmosphere of such tension and stress. I grew up like that and it has given me a lot of MH issues.

He also sounds controlling as you said he won't let you get your DS assessed.

I'm not surprised you're struggling with anxiety and depression. Anyone living like this would. You really do need to get some help. I'm sure you don't want to live the rest of your life like this. You deserve love, kindness and understanding and it sounds like you get none of that.

My husband is worried that a diagnosis will go on his record and he will not be able to get into the secondary school that he wants to

Has your expletive deleted of a husband even for a millisecond considered that the wonderful secondary school will not tolerate your son's behaviour?

As your first priority, please contact your DV centre and ask for help, then once that's underway, you can make plans for your future.

The problem isn’t your son, it’s your husband and his influence. Your son is acting up because he can pick up on the lack of boundaries, rules and cohesion between you and your partner. Sounds like he can sense the uncertainty and it’s having an impact on him.

Sorry to hear your DH is verbally abusive and gaslighting you. As the others said, please reach out and get help! Is your marriage is fixable, ie if your husband is made aware his behaviour is toxic do you think he’d be prepared to do the work to change? If not, would you consider separating?

I’m so sorry OP, this is a tough read, you are in a really hard situation.

You’ve already acknowledged your husband is a big problem. I urge you to get in touch with Women’s Aid or any other helpline, if you can’t just leave him.

I don’t think your DS behaviour sounds normal. My own DS can display some similar behaviours, he annoys his younger sister sometimes, and is fidgety, but it’s to a much, much lesser extent than what you’ve described. My DS is only 5, though, and also I wouldn’t rule out ADHD for him either. So your DS’ behaviour is definitely extreme.

I have recently referred my DS for an assessment, I went via the GP, filled in a questionnaire that gets posted to the Children’s Centre. This then gets the ball rolling, it’s a long wait/process but at least it’s moving now. Why don’t you do that? You don’t need your husband’s permission. Because of covid and the reduced face to face appointments, all I had to do was give my GP a brief description over the phone of my DS’ issues and they left the form for me to collect.

Good luck Op, you’re in a really hard situation so it’s no wonder you feel the way you do.

Ah OP have read your updates. I wonder if you would find it helpful to ask this to be moved to relationships or to repost some of this there. You need support.

Sounds like the therapist stopped therapy as it wasn’t you who needed to change for things to improve. It’s the situation, specifically your DH. This is also what everyone else has concluded. Good luck, I hope you find the strength to make some brave moves

I’m so sorry OP, it sounds like you’re in a very difficult situation without any real support. My husband works all hours of the day so I’m used to doing the parenting thing on my own. That means my rules apply for the kids and I think you need to enforce what you think is right now. Kids are very adaptable, so even if your other half doesn’t agree with your decisions at all times, you need to have a frank conversation with him that things are not working for you and you need to set boundaries with kids. Tell him that even if he doesn’t agree with your decisions, he needs to have your back. Kids are very clever, they quickly learn who to go to when there are inconsistencies. For example my kids know their heads will roll if they forget their manners, so guess what? They’re polite to me at all times. Usually they remember as a result with their dad as well, but not always- he does not comment and they know it. So I think you need to just change things up so they work better for YOU and to hell with what he thinks, quite frankly.
You say you eat dinner with your husband later, fine. But you’re in charge of meal times.
As for story time, don’t allow your children to control it . If she loves the story so much, fine, but they can share a story when you are preparing dinner. From now on I read your story at bedtime, but your brother reads with you earlier in the day. You’re in charge, change all of the things that aren’t working and you will feel SO much better.

You’ve got this. You can do this. This too will pass.

I would say potentially autism and adhd - but if this is the case you’ll need to set fewer rules rather than more. For example, my son aged 9 with autism would never eat at the table. He finds it too stressful, too much eye contact and interaction. Trying to force him to do that would make him totally miserable and probably cause a meltdown. The whole point of mealtimes is so that everyone is relaxed and can eat - so we’ve completely given up with the table and all sit watching tv and eat on our laps, he sits with his iPad and eats watching that at the same time. When he was younger he had such a restricted diet he was under a dietician but now he pretty much eats anything as long as there is no pressure and no expectation.

The movie thing is similar - sitting there expecting him to watch a whole film is asking quite a lot. My son would have to play with Lego or fidget toys at the same time and would often just get up and walk off. His autism makes it hard for him to follow a story and he doesn’t really care about the characters in films or books.

Have a good read around adhd and autism and put the strategies in place now, it won’t do any harm.

Your dh does sound very problematic.

If I say to him that he doesn't support me or enforce any rules it gets thrown back in my face with a load of verbal abuse and gaslighting, so I usually just keep quiet now sad.

There is zero point in getting a diagnosis of this is the case. It's not going to make any difference to anything is it? If you both carry on this way, him being abusive and you just taking it, it's going to do some serious damage to your kids.

Your children sound all over the place, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that the issues are household ones. No consistent boundaries, parents fighting over boundaries, shouting to get control etc etc. All a diagnosis of ADHD may do is make you feel that this is not about your parenting and turn you into a victim. Your DD is already displaying similar signs (2 adults to get her pyjamas on?!).