1st timer breastfeeding - am confused, please can I get some advice?

[SantasGotABigFatEllieG]

Right. Not sure where to start here, but will try and shape some of my confusion into sensible questions.
I really want to breastfeed my baby. I am 23 weeks PG and am just starting to look at what you do with a baby as opposed to what happens when you are PG info, and am getting v scared.

It says in the book I am reading that 3/4 hourly feed routines are designed with bottle-fed babies in mind, and that breastfed babies will need more frequent feeds - every 2 hours. Says will need to feed at least 10-12 times a day. It says that even if you get some kind of miracle and your baby sleeps well at night you should wake it up to feed in the night every 3 hours at least or baby will not get enough nourishment and milk will dry up. This will mean I will get NO sleep and I am very scared about that. I have problems with depression etc and although obviously I know that when you have a new baby you accept sleep goes on the back burner, but if I cannot even start to try to get the baby into some sort of routine after a few weeks I am worried I will get really down. How long is it before breastfed babies can have a feeding routine?

Also - sorry if TMI - I have very flat nipples - is that going to make breastfeeding difficult?

Also - if your milk doesn't come for a few days, how is your baby getting any nourishment?

Also - what can you do to stop it hurting?

When can you start expressing?

And is it OK to have a drink (I know not to have a whole load obviously) when BF? How much goes through to milk?

Answers on a (very big) postcard please?

hiya
am no expert but will try and answer your questions
newborn babies have tiny little tummies. when they are born it's about the size of a marble- this is why they take small feeds about every 2-3 hours. They do need to feed at LEAST every 3-4 hours so that your milk supply is stimulated and you make enough milk for baby. this ios particularly important in the early days. I personally found that for the first few nights I was on an adrenaline high and the waking through the night wasn't aproblem. baby will soon settle down though.

I also have flat nipples and it hasn't been a problem at all. baby will pull them out when s/he latches on.

for the first few days all your baby needs is the colostrum you produce. I Know it seems like a teeny amount but it's fantastic stuff and baby will get all s/he needs frm it- also due to the teeny tummy it's all they need to fill them up

it won't necessarily hurt, so don't be scared of that. But do hunt out the numbers for breastfeeding counsellors, and check out baby cafes in your area in case you do need any help. the most usual cause of pain is that baby isn't latching on properly or isn't positioned right- both things that can be fixed easily and shouldn't cause you too much hassle if you get it sorted early

you can start expressing whenever you want, but most people find it much easier when baby is a bit older (6 weeks-ish) so that their feeding is well established and they have time to fit it in amongst baby feeding and all the other new baby jobs you'll be doing

and yes, it;s ok to drink

oh also wanted to add- do you have any support in place for the depression for after baby is born?
I was referred to the maternal mental wellbeing clinic while I was pregnant and had an appt just after baby was born to make sure things were ok

Post on the breastfeeding board. There are many helpful people there including breastfeeding counsellors.

have put a link to this thread on the breastfeeding board

it depends on the baby. Some do feed very frequently but mine tended to feed about 11pm, then again round about 3ish then at 6/7am in the first few weeks. It is tiring.
2 of mine slept from 11pm to 7am by about 7 weeks and two didn't.
Just feed initially if they cry. If that doesn't stop then nappy changing, cuddles etc.
The first milk is colostrum before your milk comes in.
Expressing takes as long as feeding the baby (I know cos no 4 was in NICU and I spent all day pumping!) so best just to feed!

Thanks for the advice - I like to plan everything out so I am not hit by too many unknowns! I am TERRIFIED of getting something wrong and baby not being fed enough I suppose. And I feel like will be a big failure if don't manage to bf

I have a counselor who I can hook up with, and there is a peri-natal mental health nurse available, but tbh, I don't really find her that approachable. I am used to managing my depression so is not too scary.

Thanks sleighlymadsanta

OK, by no means an expert, but ... Every 2 hours does sound horrendous. Honestly it probably won't feel as bad as you think. Its a great excuse to have to sit down in front of the computer / tv / with a book / stay in bed. All babies are different, after a few weeks my first fed like clockwork every 4 hours, you could set your watch by her. dd2 feeds whenever she decides to, with no pattern at all.

I never ever woke either dd to feed them, and wouldn't have done unless they were underweight or premature.

Lansinhol (in purple tubes from chemist) is fantastic if you feel sore.

You don't have to abstain from alcohol completely, just use some common sense.

Remember there are lots of people who you can turn to for help in rl. Use all the support you can get.

I would recommend a bedside cot or crib (whether ff or bf actually) because it is so much easier to cope with night wakings when you don't actually have to physically get out of bed.
Regarding the frequency of feeds, if anyone suggests to you that you should sleep when the baby sleeps they are QUITE RIGHT. For the first few weeks it is really important that you actually lie down and try to sleep whenever the baby does, so that you can ensure that you're getting good bursts of sleep in a 24 hour period. Don't worry about dirty dishes or washing.
My dd used to go for about 2-3 hours between feeds in the morning and early afternoon, before cluster feeding (pretty much constant) between 6 and 8pm. Then she'd wake maybe 2 or 3 times a night. This was prob after the first week or so, when she got accustomed to the difference between night and day.
My ds was similar during the day, but only fed a max of 2 times a night between 9 and 6, so would wake at maybe 11pm and then at 3am. He was a bigger baby and was generally much more chilled than dd.

wrigglejiggle it is important to wake baby if they go to long without a feed.
my first ds was not a good feeder and became quite lethargic.
the result was that as a bad feeder he wasn't taking enough milk, that made him sleepy and he'd go for over 6 hours without a feed. that in turn meant he took less milk, became more sleepy and also that my milk supply didn't get stimulated to produce more and began to suffer.
it's a vicious circle and is the reason that you are advised not to let baby sleep longer than 4 hours.
ds was 9lb 1 at birth as well, so not underweight or premature.

Hi, trying to answer but coming over the the BF/FF board will help answer lots of questions and provide support for you!

"This will mean I will get NO sleep and I am very scared about that."

• this is likely whatever feeding method you try - FF is no guarantee of more sleep as babies have small stomachs whatever you put in them... Best to try and think positively about how your body will adapt. You'll have hormones that help with the sleep loss and you need to get enough help in the first few weeks so that you can go to sleep in the day also when your baby sleeps...

"but if I cannot even start to try to get the baby into some sort of routine after a few weeks I am worried I will get really down. How long is it before breastfed babies can have a feeding routine?"

I would speak to your health care provider about the depression before you have the baby. If you've been on medication before you might wish to think about it postnatally or at least make sure you get a full check up. I would also speak to a BF counsellor before the birth to ask about PND and drugs and feeding, also to get your worries off your chest...

Routines are difficult for any new baby but usually if they are feeding well, they do often settle down into some sort of pattern of their own accord. But if you try to force them into it you might have problems with milk supply if you're BF... Come and ask more on the BF board about this...

"Also - sorry if TMI - I have very flat nipples - is that going to make breastfeeding difficult? "

• Experienced BF counsellor will say this is almost never a problem and your baby will 'mould' them to the shape they need to be since they mostly have 'areola' as well as the nipple in their mouth. but you may need to get some advice re latching on at the start but that's the same for people with sticky out ones too usually!

"Also - if your milk doesn't come for a few days, how is your baby getting any nourishment?"

They are getting colostrum which is fantastic stuff, high in calories and nutrients and antibodies and all that sort of stuff. Expect a well baby to be feeding very frequently in first few days and after 2-4 days usually you will have lots of milk... Many babies can be sleepy in first 24 hrs also after the birth - if they're still not sucking lots after that you might need to get more help

"Also - what can you do to stop it hurting?"

it doesn't always hurt - many women have no pain at all. poor latching on is almost always the cause of pain and can be helped by someone who knows how to solve such issues

That's a lot of questions! I'm no bf expert, but I fed my dd for 14 months ( after a very shakey start) and will be bfing the next one too as I loved it so much. I'll give you my views:

Babies don't wear watches. They don't know that they're supposed to feed however many hours apart. You should feed your baby when she is hungry - you'll know when she makes these gorgeous little snuffly noises.

I won't lie to you - it is a bit relentless at first, and you don't get much sleep. On the plus side you have lots of lovely hormones racing around your body helping you to cope with the lack of sleep, and you'll find that after a night feed there's no 'getting back to sleep' time. I found the best way to cope was to not plan to do anything other than sleep, eat and feed the baby. Anything else was a bonus. Get some good books or films. Sleep when the baby sleeps. Make yourself a nest on the sofa with drinks and snacks. Invite a friend round and make it a gorgeous, warm, cosy time.

Routine - I guess they work for some people and not for others. I feel that my friends who wanted a routine were very stressed about it. I never ever implemented any sort of a routine on dd because that was what worked for me. I have absolutely no regrets about that because I look back on her early life as a time of cuddles and love and (relatively) little stress. Also, she seemed to do things at the same time as her routine-led friends anyway. She started to get tired at about the same time every evening so we got into the habit of putting her in the bath just before then. Then she'd wake about the same time so I'd feed her then. She ended up happily in a routine with a bedtime and mealtimes, but one that had evolved organically.

I don't know about flat nipples.

You have colostrum in your breasts at first, which is very nourishing for the baby. They really don't need much for the first couple of days. Mine mostly slept for the first 24 hours of her life.

To stop it hurting... lol... I wish there was an easy answer to that! It might not hurt! It shouldn't hurt, but many women (most in my experience) do have pain starting off. It can be fixed. Make sure you have good support (eg a local organisation such as baby cafe). Make sure your latch is right. Get help with that. Try Lansinoh. Use breast pads. Get a feeding pillow. (all just my own advice - others would suggest different things).

Don't know about expressing.

I didn't drink at all in the early stages, mostly because it was the last thing I wanted! Once I felt we were falling into a routine I would have a glass of wine when I knew LO wouldn't want a feed for a good few hours. After a few months, I guess.

I'll stop typing now.

Be calm. You'll work out what works best for you and your baby. Good luck !

Also, be prepared mentally for non stop feeding in case you get one of those babies. I wasn't (nobody had told me it could happen and it was normal) and I became enormously stressed about it. What was worse was that all my friends from the antenatal group had babies that fed for 15 mins and slept for 3 hours, whereas I could never put mine down for hours at a time (the bonus was that she slept 8hrs a night from week 2 though).

Anyway, not saying your baby will be like that, but be prepared for this eventuality. Stock up on books, DVDs and plenty of nutritious snacks you can eat with one hand and get other people to clean your house and cook dinner. Accept the fact that going to the toilet on your own might become a luxury and that personal hygiene may have to take a back seat for a few weeks. Fret not though, it does pass, even if it does seem to last an eternity.

Oh, and for the feeding at night, it's so much easier if baby is in bed with you. I used to pick her up out of her crib and put her next to me on the bad and she'd latch herself on and feed whilst I drifted back to sleep.

Ta all - this is very useful indeed - I will trundle over to the breastfeeding bit (didn't see it on the topic list or would have posted there) and read up. I am feeling a little bit more chilled though already - is nice to hear real people who really do things talking about them, rather than reading the theory from books.

So basically - am hearing, let the baby make it's own routine when little as sounds more stressful to try and impose one, and accept that am not going to be able to do much expect eat/feed/sleep for a bit, so may as well get comfy and let the housework wait?

Have you considered co-sleeping? It will really help you get more sleep at night, especially in the early weeks. You need to follow the safety rules though (like no drinking or smoking, keep pillows and duvets well clear, etc).

That's about it Ellie! No one can predict what your breastfeeding experience will be, but it's more likely to be a chilled, happy experience from the start if you go into it with that attitude

Hi Ellie!!! Glad to see you posting this, everytime one of my antenatalers asks about bfing I get all happy

As has already been said, babies stomachs are tiny when they're born, this is the same for breastfed and formula fed babies. It is actually best for either if you feed on demand rather than artificially stretching their stomach too soon, so even if you ff I'd personally suggest feeding on demand for the first little while.

Sleeping- co-sleep or get a bedside cot like the motehrcare one I keep going on about, it's actually much less tiring to just pull baby over and put to the breast than to get up, go downstairs, warm up milk, feed baby etc.

Drinking whilst breastfeeding is not a problem, I think tiktok sid ona recent thread you need to have a certain amount of alcohol in your system before it is knonw to affect baby, it worked out as about 20units!!! So a couple of glasses of wine or something really won't hurt.

You can, in theory, express straight away, but it can be best to let your milk get established first, with plenty of skin-to-skin and suckling, because baby encourages milk to be made a lot better than a breastpump does.

Nourishment-babies have fat stores, just likeus, a day or two without huge amounts of food is not an issue, unless your baby has other issues too. DS didn't take a proper feed until he was two days old and he wa fine, just not that hungry!! Birth is tiring for them too!

Breastfeeding itself does not generally hurt, it does hurt some people, but often this can be helped by imporving the latch, more often it is sore nipples that hurt and these can be rescued by things like the lansinoh mentioned earlier.

Yes. Just go with the flow. If you have to spend all day in bed feeding and eating just do it and don't feel guilty about what else you could be doing.

Fab! In that case I will try to stop fretting and go with the flow a bit more when I get there. Especially since it seems as though all you lovely ladies are there for advice! And will not try for a routine at first. I get a bit worried that am supposed to be being all gina-fordy from the moment LO pops out, but I guess baby ain't read that book.

DP ain't a fan of co-sleeping, but I will have baby in crib next to me - was wondering though is there any danger of falling asleep while feeding and squashing the baby? I was thinking I would get up and sit in a chair just so I was a little bit more awake and didn't nod off on the poor little mite.

You're unlikely to squash baby, mothers tend to have this primeval instinct and will wake up if baby is in danger (or at least that's what I found). Just don't do anything that might interfere with your natural sleep, like drinking, smoking or taking drugs of any sort.

So I guess my raging smack habit has to go then....oh well.

Yep, though it'll probably help the baby sleep well.

My dd is 14 weeks now. She sleeps with us, but feeds aout 11pm, then prob about 4, then 9ish. but because shes in with us, i dont really have to get her back to sleep etc, because i just roll over and feed her, its FAB! My dp wasnt keen either, but now he's fine with it, as he gets up early for work, and desnt even notice dd waking through the night!
BF has never hurt me at all, it was the best decision i made.

I had a c section, but they gave her to me straight away and she fed for an hour. dd was 9lb 2 born, and has gained really well all the way, so i have no doubt shes gettin genough milk! im sure you would know yourself if there was a prob

Good luck chick!

Honey xx