Circumcision

[Kanfuzed123]

Right I know this is a super contentious thread on MNs and I’d like to make it super duper clear that DH and I are emphatically against what I’d call involuntary circumcision i.e done to a child, specifically an infant. I do appreciate there are some medical circumstances that mean a circumcision is necessary but for the most part, I’m a your body, your choice kind of person.

I know this is highly emotive for a lot of people so please please please don’t just comment with ‘circumcision is barbaric’ / ‘ Muslims are backwards’ or equally ‘ it’s fardh to be circumcised’ or ‘ you can’t pick and chose your religion’. This is how we feel. Our son if he reads up on the procedure and would like to be circumcised at an age he can consent, we’ll support that but knowing there can be complications, i can’t put a child through that unnecessarily. Please respect my beliefs.

So that being said, we are Muslim. For anyone that doesn’t know it’s a cultural norm in the larger Muslim community. Many in fact (incorrectly)relate being circumcised to being Muslim. I’m expecting a baby boy in a matter of days and we won’t be circumcising, it’s a convo to revisit In teen years potentially at DS request as it won’t be Initiated by us. However, and this is the tricky part, DHs family will be very very into this, it’s often done as almost a celebration of sorts on the 7th day of life. Obviously this won’t be happening. As much as I’d love to educate and inform his family about why we think it’s morally wrong and not theologically necessary, nothing will come of it except arguments and harassment. They will be like a dog with a bone.

I’ve come here for opinions on which ‘lie’ or one liner will just shut down conversation until they eventually lose interest and move on. Also would appreciate suggestions on how to shut it down and move on, again dialogue just won’t happen. Will be like arguing with a wall.

1. doctors advise was to wait until out of nappies so that’s what we’ll do
2. pretending we’ve done it (will have to watch and make sure MIL in particular doesn’t ever view a nappy change in this instance)
3. I’d rather not discuss my sons genitals thank you
4. ‘we’ve got an appointment booked’ and then making up an excuse as to why it didn’t happen, or likely they’ll have forgotten
5. we’ll wait til just before puberty (it’s a lesser known tradition)

Which one is enough to shut people up, I’m thinking number 1?

Thanks in advance

Key there is the word offering! A baby cannot consent and the ‘hygiene’ reasons are largely bollocks, sorry.

A baby might not be able to articulate ouch I’m in pain like a teen or an adult can but it doesn’t mean they don’t feel it. The fact is that a part of the body is being removed without anesthetic. It is a part of the body that has a huge amount of nerve endings also. Babies under 2 months can’t even have Calpol for god sake. The foreskin as baby isn’t even retractable so it has to be ripped from the tip of the penis. I’m pleased your husband didn’t have any lasting complications but there can be some including causing an unnatural curve or bend to the penis from taking too much skin and buried penis syndrome. Also there is an open wound sitting in a nappy, and we all know how much babies poop.

I’ve had 2 adult male friends circumcised for medical reasons, some autoimmune condition. One said it hurt like the dickens and the other was very blase about it, and said pain was minimal. I actually took that friend too and from the hospital after surgery, it was done as a day procedure.

@Danikm151

Really? Not medically trained??

Were in the 21st century and presumably OP is in the UK aswell. Seriously!
Dont be so ridiculous

Agreed, Orighty - people take leave on their sense when this is being discussed. Wizzywig's idea about the grandparents doing it without their consent is similarly bizarre - yes, I know it happened once and there was a court case about it, but that doesn't mean it's very likely, especially in the UK.

I mean it’s not completely too far fetched that if left alone with extended members of the family they might try to get it done, and I’m guessing as they wouldn’t have parental consent they’d be going to a less than reputable establishment that could have dodgy medical credentials. But the extended family won’t ever be left alone with any of my kids, ever , at any point and not necessarily just based on this, so In this specific circumstance it’s a non issue. The issue is the bother, mithering, name calling and ostracisation

Congratulations, and good luck as you welcome your baby.

I think I would go for a delay (because COVID risk / medical reasons or whatever) followed by ‘actually no we have decided not to get it done’ when you are not in the thick of immediate new parenthood.

I would try being clear, resolved and matter of fact. Cite the evidence that it is not religiously required and you have chosen not to do this. Steer clear of going into reasons that implicitly criticise their own choice.

And be very definite that the subject is closed and ongoing pressure / criticism will result in you packing up and going home or whatever.

I wouldn’t say ‘he can decide when he is 12’ because you will have 12 years of them trying to pressure your child. Subtlety or not. Via cousins, or in their language (he will likely pick a lot up: one of my Dc learned a language from sitting with a grandparent watching soaps, for example). It transfers the pressure to your child, and they will lodge the milestone in their minds.

So I would just say no and leave it at that. It is implicit that when he is a legal adult he could make up his own mind anyway.

I would go down the line of saying there is a medical reason to begin with. That sould end the discussion for at least a few years. If they ask about it again in the future you can do the same again or, if you want to, you can tell them you don't want to do it having had all that time to think about it etc.

I wouldn't recommend it by the way - you're doing the right thing.

So to update this thread baby boy is 2 and a bit months old.

MIL kicked off massively about his name and the aqeeqah and implicitly circumcision but predominantly the name we chose for our son as it was a ‘horrible white person name’ the result has been she’s not met our son and she’s driven a huge wedge between DH and her and she’s been explicitly told that she needs to keep her opinions to herslef if she wishes to have any contact with the grandchildren. So by being a nightmare, she actually did us a favour

I am kinda in the same boat :/ in my situation unfortunately partner is not on my side. He is not even talking to me or to baby unless i let them shave his hair or get circumcised. Baby is 7 months old and till now i kept refusing it. I would rather break up but it is clear they would never let me leave with baby as i am from abroad originally, and partner has said it he would never let me have baby:( he is blackmailing me all the time that i owe this much to his family for doing so much for me..
No idea what to do

I would just say...
We as parents have chosen not to circumcise our child unless it's medically necessary. We will not be discussing it further.

If raised again...
We have made our decision and dint want to discuss it further. If raised again in the same visit then leave.

If you hold firm boundaries then they will stop eventually.

@Kanfuzed123

So to update this thread baby boy is 2 and a bit months old.

MIL kicked off massively about his name and the aqeeqah and implicitly circumcision but predominantly the name we chose for our son as it was a ‘horrible white person name’ the result has been she’s not met our son and she’s driven a huge wedge between DH and her and she’s been explicitly told that she needs to keep her opinions to herslef if she wishes to have any contact with the grandchildren. So by being a nightmare, she actually did us a favour

That's a shame.

@Interracialbabysmom

This sounds really tough. Well done for sticking to what you believe is right so far.

You might get more help and suggestions if you start your own thread as well? Often with older threads people keep replying to the original post and don't see all the updates.

Hang in there! L

@LinnaW
Thanks for the support. I have done it already. Waiting for comments.xx

I think 3 and 5 are best are shutting down the conversion, particularly 3 as it is very hard for people to argue with.

@Interracialbabysmom

I am kinda in the same boat :/ in my situation unfortunately partner is not on my side. He is not even talking to me or to baby unless i let them shave his hair or get circumcised. Baby is 7 months old and till now i kept refusing it. I would rather break up but it is clear they would never let me leave with baby as i am from abroad originally, and partner has said it he would never let me have baby:( he is blackmailing me all the time that i owe this much to his family for doing so much for me.. No idea what to do

We shaved my sons head, very gently of course. Although the point of it is to do it on the 7th day and donate the weight of the hair in gold or silver to charity on behalf of the baby no simply to just shave the head.

If it’s an either or, 100% shave the babies head. Hair grows back, body parts don’t.

If it’s the circumcision, could you tell your partner that you’ve done some reading and you prefer the school of thought that says it’s to be done on the cusp of puberty, that way your son will be an active agent and if he refuses no doctor would operate on him. Plus it buys you more time?

@Kanfuzed123
I have told them if he grows up to make his mind up and he chooses to have it done i would not stop him. But right now i can not do that to a helpless baby who trust me to protect him.