EXDH removed DS from UK...DS hates his dad

[OrangePellegrino]

First time posting on here, sorry for the long post. It is a bit of a shocker! The last 2 years we’ve been in an impossible situation. STBXH, divorce in process, is a native of Oz. When the divorce was served he decided to leave the uk back to oz. He shockingly convinced DS who was 15 at the time to go with him, DS was having a hard time here with school and friends, his dad enticed him with the promise of a new start, beaches, fab life in the sun. I tried to put a stop to this, but as DS was deemed ‘gillick competent’ the decision was his. So off he went, me and younger dc cried for weeks/months. It didn’t work out, DS wanted to come back, his dad would not let him return, DS became so difficult school in Oz excluded him, he was extremely difficult at home too, resulting in his dad agreeing to his return. Thank goodness. He’s been back 3 months, and is happy as larry, with me and dc. His dad returned after a month too, saying he was lonley. DS says he hates his dad for how he manipulated him into going by ‘selling’ all the good stuff to him, and not helping him see potential difficulties. He feels really angry that his dad would dismiss anything I said about how hard this transition would be. He refuses to see or speak with his dad, when dad comes to pick up other dc he swears at him, calls him abusive, disgusting, even the c-word. As soon as his dad is off the scene he is a happy boy again, kind, caring, helpful, lovely really. DS told me that his dad had apparently planned to get us all out there eventually, and that would stop the divorce. I asked STBXH about this, to which he said, a fresh start could really have fixed things. He says he now realises it was a mistake, says sorry, and wants me to help fix his relationship with DS, he wants DS to go to family therapy with him, of course DS doesn’t want to. I don’t think that I should be doing anything to ‘make’ DS like his dad again, I see it as his dads problem to sort out, I can’t be responsible for backing up what he did, he wants me to present a united front with him that it was all done with the best intention. Because I won’t do this STBXH is saying it’s my fault DS is so hateful. I fear it’s beyond the point of making amends.
Am I wrong, should I be doing something differently?

Your DS and what he wants and needs should be the priority now for both of you. I'm guessing he's in exam years? And presumably having to catch up after the time away? Dad needs to say to him I'm here to support you to settle back in, I'm sorry, I thought it was for the best, I made a mistake. Ask him what does he need? What would make his life easier? Does he need tutoring? Lifts or pocket money to facilitate building friendships? Family therapy can wait until your son is ready. Dad needs to apologize and go overboard to help his son and put him first.

@AlexanderArnold
Thank you for replying.
Yes he needs all those things.
His dad tries to offer them, but I think it's all so raw still, DS tells him to eff-off, and wants nothing from him.
He is in exam years, and trying my best to help him get over the trauma of all this. He seems to be doing okay, as long as his dad doesn't present himself.

I think dad needs to back off for a bit. There’s nothing worse than someone constantly on at you. He’s probably finding it irritating and he wants to settle at school and get on with things, and possibly forget Oz happened.
It’s not up to you to facilitate your ds to like or want to know his dad. His dad fucked up big time and ds doesn’t want to know. Leave him be. He needs to do this in his own time and not on dads terms or timeline.
I bet you’re glad you’re divorcing this pushy fuckwit!

I think your ex should give him some space and let him recover, it all sounds very traumatic for DS. Maybe if DS has more time to cool down without being triggered by his dad, he will get to a point where he can start to think about repairing the relationship.

The reality is their relationship might never be fixed, or it might take years. Your ex is just going to have to deal with the consequences of his actions.

I agree it's not your job to fix things. Be supportive of your DS, don't invalidate his feelings.

Then I'd say to dad he needs to back off, let DS settle back in. Family therapy won't help while things are still raw; D's needs to find his feet again and maybe with some distance from events, can reflect and talk. Will he listen to you if you suggest this? If not, he can actually begin seeing a family therapist himself to talk it through and understand how he might reach his son again in time. Emphasize that the priority has to be getting D's through his exams, not raking things up at the moment

What should you do? Block him. Ds is old enough to make his own decisions regarding the relationship /no relationship with his df.

DS sorry

He refuses to see or speak with his dad, when dad comes to pick up other dc he swears at him, calls him abusive, disgusting, even the c-word.

I would not allow this level of rudeness and aggression, regardless of the reasons. If it's too hard for DS to be civil then he needs to be out when his dad comes to the house, or you need to leave him at home while you drop off the younger kids at a meeting point elsewhere. Otherwise they will feel caught in the middle and their relationship with their father may suffer, which is not in their best interests.

Aren’t the Australian borders closed?

FWIW I would tel your eXH to back off a bit, but I wouldn’t tolerate your DS swearing at him in the way he has been.

@Longdistance
Yes, so glad, I am divorcing him. All our married life he has been 'subtly' controlling, this is another example of his relentless control of others, and total disregard that other people even have feelings, wishes, wants, desires, thoughts.
Thank you

@HeartsAndClubs

Aren’t the Australian borders closed?

They would have had to apply for special circumstances to leave I'd think?

@OrangePellegrino it looks like he has no boundaries. Gosh, it must be so relentless, especially for your ds, poor kid but agree, he shouldn’t swear at his dad. Maybe reign that in with him. Tell him, ‘yeah, dad fucked up, it has been hard, but don’t swear and abuse him, it’s best to walk away and stay silent’.
I hope the divorce goes through quickly so you don’t need to constantly deal with him and referee between your ds and him.

@HeartsAndClubs @kowari
Yes, he was able to leave under special exemption.
It wasn't easy.

I agree that I wouldn't allow the swearing and bad mouthing when Ex comes to the house - I don't think that's helping anyone recover. Instead I would offer DS an 'out' - ie he's allowed to be in his bedroom, doesn't need to see his dad - he needs to get some control back wrt that relationship.

Ex also needs to make handovers very swift and business-like with the younger DCs, no chat, if he needs to tell you anything he can text.

I agree that the whole family probably needs counselling - I know you're posting about your son but your younger DCs must have felt abandoned/rejected by this situation too? But that has to wait until DS is ready for it.

In the meantime, validate his feelings but also try to help him move forward through them.

His dad shouldn't have taken him to Australia. End of. Its understandable that you would be very unhappy with what he did. Even so, I'd be wary that if your son can dump you to go to Oz, then dump his dad when he comes back, he could be back to dumping you if something goes wrong again.
I wouldn't be happy with him calling his dad abusive names and I would tell him not to do it. In the same way I hope that's what my DH would say if he abused me.
As for presenting a united front, whether you like your ex or not, this is surely best for your child. I'm not saying you have to facilitate counselling, unless you thought he'd benefit, but if he can be abusive to a parent with no consequences, that power can be quite intoxicating and it's a natural progression to start abusing other people. Ultimately, you want what's best for your son and having a functional relationship with both parents and an awareness of appropriate behaviour outside the home is obviously going to benefit him the most in the future.

If he was competent enough to decide to go, he is competent to decide not to see or speak to his father. It goes both ways. I would fully support you son and tell your ex to stay away until DS wants to see him, which may be never.

Well he accidentally picked the worst two years to go there! I'd be pointing out that his experience is partly down to bad luck, not all his dad's fault. He was old enough to decide at 15.

Has his father actually apologised to him?

Also, your Ds did choose to go, did his Dad actually lie to him about anything?

I’d support your son in not having to see/speak to his father at the moment if he doesn’t want to.

I agree with others though that you should (at a calm moment) ask your son if he could refrain from being aggressive towards his father in front of his younger siblings - say you support him and understand he’s angry, but frame it in terms of protecting his siblings, not his father.

I’d also see if you can speak to the school about getting some individual therapy/support for your son to help him process his anger/regret and the big changes in his life. Again, not necessarily for his father’s benefit but for his own.

Another who says I wouldn't tolerate the abuse he's giving his dad.

After all he chose to go to Australia. He chose to move away. I'm sure he knew how difficult it would be and I'm sure you warned him.

Allowing him to blame his dad for his decision that he regrets is really unhealthy.

Who does he blame for the next decision?

It's very obvious he made a bad choice due to the behaviour there and the exclusion from school.

I'd arrange independent counselling for him. He needs to learn how to communicate effectively when he doesn't like something and is angry.

I reckon it all depends on whether you want to help then reconcile or if you think it's DSs decision. My feeling is if he was Gillick competent then he still is now and it's his call. If you do want to help you could suggest some family therapy etc but please make sure DS knows it's his decision and you're on his side- sounds like he needs to know that not all grown ups are trying to manipulate his feelings

Is his relationship with his dad making him angry and unhappy? It sounds like it is, in which case, if you have your son's best interest at heart, you will support him whilst also encouraging a relationship with his father, bit without pressure. It wasn't just your husband's fault. Your son obviously took some of his problems over there with him, found it tougher than expected and made some poor choices too (hence getting excluded from school). If you allow your son to solely put the blame on his father, then you are also absolving him from any responsibility and what could be a huge learning experience.

As hard as it is, I would make sure you are not pinning blame on ex here, or harbouring bad feeling, at least in front of DS. It was ultimately DS's choice to go. Maybe his dad really did think it would a great thing to do in taking him to Oz, and it's good he's recognised his mistake and is saying sorry.

He obviously needs some space. Dad needs to know that. Ask dad as kindly as you can to back off for a bit. My brother and sister have only recently begun building a more positive relationship with our dad and its taken a lot of patience, a lot of quick cups of tea in a cafe, and persistent non-judgemental love from him. I think you shouldbuild a united front here and try to acknowledge how dad is feeling. I agree that he should go to a different area of the house, and knows that swearing and being aggressive towards his dad isn't acceptable.

I don’t think you should help heal the rift for your STBXH but I do think you need to encourage and facilitate your sons ability to process and come to terms with the emotions he is feeling. He is experiencing anger, betrayal, impulses of hate that are now a part of him and that spiral can be difficult to overcome. Time will help to process what he feels but eventually family counselling may help him address how to deal with the emotions. I just think of lots of things that can come from this later in life such as trust issues, fear of commitment, abandonment issues etc. Which may be prevented if counselling is sought earlier rather than later