At Breaking Point With Breastfeeding :(

[MintGreenLife]

My DS is almost 15 weeks and I’m struggling so much with breastfeeding. We have two issues going on, and despite having his tongue tie snipped and support arranged by the HV, things haven’t improved at all and I’m finding it so hard.

One of the issues is how long he feeds for. He’s never faster than 40 mins, average is an hour, but he can feed for you to an hour and a calf at a time. I feel like all I’m doing is feeding him. Monday was particularly bad and I fed him for a total of 8.5 hours (am keeping a feeding diary to help me figure out what’s going on). Last night he fed from 12.45am, and after an hour spent just on one side I dared to try and unlatch him so I could get some sleep. He woke up right away and cried until I put him on the other side, and it was gone 2am by the time he had finished. I spend several hours in the night feeding snd it’s completely exhausting.

He also fusses while feeding quite often during the day. This started happening when he was 6 weeks old, and can happen anything from once to twice a day, or all day for every feed. He latches on and off every 10 seconds or so, sometimes crying in between, sometimes beating his fists into me and scratching at my chest. Some days it can be a battle just to get a decent feed into him. I can’t workout why this is happening, but sometimes rocking and feeding at the same time helps to get him back on track.

I desperately want to keep breastfeeding, but I don’t know how we can carry on like this. It’s really starting to take its toll now 😢 I do also feel like at what point does it actually become irresponsible to choose to exclusively breastfeed him when we’re both having such a bad time with it!

Sounds obvious but have you tried a dummy? I couldn’t figure it out from your posts.

Dd was a complete comfort sucker and it got to the point something else had to prop me up to continue BF. That and submitting to the fact that my baby needed so much contact rather than trying to fix it helped, but if you can introduce a dummy to support you when you feel that any beneficial BF’ing has moved to comfort. It can also help with providing other people with a tool to help you out more.

Listen to the part of you that is saying 'I'm miserable' and give that part value too. I have 3, but my insistence on breast feeding DS3 meant that I don't remember much of his 1st year as I was so sleep deprived. He's much older now & is just not that interested in food, he still has to be nagged to eat. We had the same tongue tie problems but I now think that wasn't the biggest issue. If I could go back in time I would switch to bottle & given myself the chance to enjoy his 1st year. It still makes me feel sad that it was so hard & a bit pointless.

No advice OP

BUT

stay strong! if you choose to carry on or not it makes no odds. Yes you must do what is right for your baby but you MUST value your needs to

I'm sorry OP. Have you tried a food diary? The fussing and crying while feeding sounds familiar to me. I was around the point you are now - getting zero sleep, long feeds, occasional screaming and starting to get lots of spitting up food - when I started saying, this isn't normal, and I was told she was a 'happy spitter' and her weight gain was fine so not to worry. We actually got a sleep trainer in at around 16 weeks, I was VERY reluctant but a friend recommended and said they would use no harsh methods under 6 months old and would just recommend routine.

She made me keep a diary:what I ate, when I fed, when the baby slept/played/vomited, and basically said this child has an allergy, and probably reflux too. I won't say it was a magic fix, but DD had -and still has - an egg and dairy allergy, and tbh when I wrote down all my food intake I could draw a connection between 'bad days' and where I'd had a lot of dairy. The day I had poached eggs for breakfast was a particular horror!

She was put on reflux meds and I went on an exclusion diet, and was able to feed her till 2, but in all honesty the screaming fussing went but the frequent waking for food/comfort only really stopped when she started crawling.

But more generally... I never know how to advise people in situations like this. Because I was really happy I was able to keep feeding, and honestly at a certain point it just became SO easy. But for some people its always hard, and an unnecessary stress, and they would be better stopping. And society is so poor at giving good advise its difficult to tell the people who could have a successful breastfeeding journey with the right support, and just need encouragement, and those who really need to give themselves a break and stop so they can recover and enjoy their babies.

Breastfeeding worked well for me, and I'm lucky, but it really isn't the case for everyone. I was formula fed, DH was extended breastfed:there's no difference in us now, and nobody would know. So I'd recommend a food diary, but really the main thing is just to be kind to yourself.

Well done for getting this far and I completely understand how you feel having been there myself. My experience of BFing is similar to yours and @Marelle - feeds took a good 45-90 mins and late diagnosis of tongue tie. On the advice of the private expert who did the feeding assessment / gosh nosed the tongue tie I paid to have the frenulotomy private as apparently the NHS doesn't always snip it enough the first time. As advised I noticed a difference after two weeks - baby has to relearn how to suckle afterwards. I highly recommend the book 'Your Baby Skin to Skin' by Rachel Deshorger - this explains, from an evolutionary perspective, why babies behave the way they do, including in relation to breastfeeding. This covers the change at four months (where you are now I think) where the feeding changes and they move away from long laid back feeds to shorter feeds, but it takes them a while to adjust, hence all the frustration and the breast. If you choose to introduce a bottle then the book also talks about how best to do that - I think it was called paced feeding where you use the bottle in a way that mimics breastfeeding (by alternating the bottle with a dummy). I had to do some of this due to weight loss and the need to do too ups. Sorry this is a bit of a ramble but I hope it helps and I would say if you can push through for a little longer then you'll be in a much better place and able to relax and enjoy the convenience of breastfeeding.

@Luckytattie thanks so much for your kind words 💕

I’m a bit worried about trying bottles. When we were in hospital until he was 10 days old I was breast feeding but then topping up with expressed milk in a bottle as he was too sleepy to feed for very long. He didn’t take a bottle well then snd luckily actually preferred the breast, as I know they can end up with a bottle preference if you introduce too early, but this is what the midwives wanted me to do, I’ve only tried a bottle of expressed milk a handful of times since, and it’s very hit or miss as to whether he will take it. Will just have to try and see!

@Ellextra you’re totally right. I need to stop dithering and actually do something to try and make things better. My husband was formula fed too and is just as healthy as I am!

@Hoppinggreen you’re totally right, I guess I’m a little afraid of him having done snd he takes it really well and is more settled, as he’s generally quite a fussy baby. Obviously that would be brilliant if that was the outcome, but I think I’ll find it hard, especially as I’ve made him BF all this time. As I said in my previous post, I need to stop worrying about ‘what if’ and just give it a try!

@Cornettoninja we tried a dummy from around 7 weeks but he won’t take one. I must have tried 39 odd times and he’s maybe taken it 10 times for 5-10 mins max, so I gave up. Do you have any tips on getting him to take one? I tried holding it in his mouth, tapping etc x

@12548ehe9fnfobms that makes a lot of sense, as I’m mostly thinking about what’s best fir him and not myself, where as I know me being happier will be good for him too. That thought has crossed my mind - I would hate to look back at his first year of life and feel like I didn’t enjoy it at all x

@Strangevipers thank you xxx

@nurserypolitics thanks so much for replying. I actually thought possible CMPA so I cut out dairy about 7 weeks ago. I thought a few things had improved but not dramatically, so I reintroduced dairy, but then felt like we went backwards a bit so cut it out again. We’ve been prescribed a dairy free formula too, but I’ve been recommended to try a normal formula first to see if he reacts, given that it’s not clear whether he has a dairy intolerance or not. I’m nervous of trying it in case he has a bad reaction, but I guess I won’t know if it’s an issue or not unless I try! It’s tricky with CMPA as everything you read says green dirty nappies, rash etc, but he doesn’t have anything like that. I suppose if I were to do a few bottles a day I could try using the infant Gaviscon again and see if that helps, as I was never really able to rule out silent reflux either x

@Moomin37 your post wasn’t a ramble, I’m terrible for rambling on! I keep thinking it’ll get better with time but it just doesn’t seem to. Maybe I’ll be able to hang on a bit longer, but also maybe pumping and using a bottle for a few feeds for a couple of weeks to get us to the four-ish month point might be what I need to do to take the pressure off, and can then see if things improve with age. He was 3 weeks early, so may need a bit more time. We are also seeing a cranial osteopath next week in case his delivery (forceps) has caused a misalignment that might be causing him some discomfort. I’m trying everything I can think of, but perhaps in the end he may just need time. Will check that book out, thank you! Xx

My DH was formula fed too from the start and he's super bright, high achiever, really healthy etc.

I did mixed feeding with mine. Exclusive for the first 6 weeks and then I did FF in the day and BF at night generally, although I sometimes mixed them up if for example DH did FF at night or I had lots of time to do BF in the day. My babies adapted really quickly to this.

We all got a break, I got more sleep and was happier and more relaxed. I found exclusively BF a bit claustrophobic. We got to do things like go to a cafe or on day trips without sitting down for hours BF, DH got to be involved in the feeding so he bonded well with the babies over it. It's a very personal decision but mixed feeding worked for us. Not saying what worked for us works for everyone, or is better or not, but just to share my experience of mixed feeding.

@Pippapet thanks so much for sharing your experience, that sounds really encouraging 😌 was your supply impacted by introducing formula? Did you try snd do the same amount of formula each day and same amount if BF? X

Re: dummies - honestly it’s mostly perseverance if they don’t take to it straight away. Young babies do tend to pop them out quite a lot which can frustrate them but they do learn to keep it in their mouths longer and when they’re bigger manoeuvre them back to their mouths.

I used to keep the dummies in my bra to transfer a bit of my scent but that could have been just young baby madness. DP mostly offered it too because if there was a hint I was there all she wanted was my boobs at first. Oh and it wasn’t a case of DP popping it in and putting her down - she had to be held. I suppose it’s building another bond.

Generally though, there’s no right or wrong here. You’re clearly exceeding providing for your babies basic needs and will continue to do BF or not. I realised (probably too late in all honesty) that the best starting point is what works for the baby and building on that. More nudging than a whole new concept iyswim.

Fwiw I really think that it sounds like your baby is mostly comfort feeding, which is fine but obviously not great for things like sleeping and having your arms free! What you’ve described sounds normal to me but definitely at the more intense end of the scale. If he’s gaining weight there’s a high chance you’re dealing with emotional needs rather than sustenance and you and your DH can help him learn other ways of satisfying those needs which might leave you feeling more capable of being able to continue BF or making the decision to switch to formula because you can be reassured that there’s no damage to your emotional bond with him. There wouldn’t be anyway but I found I needed more evidence than just words when dd was that age. It’s a surprisingly emotionally charged topic and your instinct is playing a larger part than we’re normally aware of.

I don’t know how to help you with the long feeds. They do sound really long, longer than my DD fed for at that age. She went through very fussy phases with feeding but like you say this is a long time to be a phase.

But in terms of the overall pressure of breastfeeding and having a not great sleeper, I would really recommend a bottle of formula a day if he’ll take one. My DH gave a dream feed around 11pm at this age. I’d go to bed around 8/9pm, and then the horror of the night would start around 2am haha. That dream feed really helped to take a bit of the pressure off in terms of me being able to take myself up to bed leaving DD with her dad. She would very often sleep the whole time but if she did wake he could give her a bottle and didn’t need to wake me, generally. My supply adapted to ‘drop’ that feed, though it she ever needed extra milk at that time I was able to feed her no problem. We fed until she weaned herself at 13m.

I felt like I was failing, giving that bottle of formula. But we had such a tough start to breastfeeding, and it helped me to keep going so I decided that on balance it was a good thing to do, for us. It also gave me peace of mind to know that if anything happened, DD could be given a bottle and wouldn’t be hungry. But I needn’t have worried at all! DD is now 20m and she is happy, healthy, and we have a really great relationship. She is absolutely thriving. That bottle of formula doesn’t seem to have done her any harm at all! I have number two on the way and will be doing the same with them - hopefully without any guilt this time (though, who knows, hormones make me crazy).

My son had jaundice and was very tired so didn't feed well at all and lost too much weight. We got readmitted to hospital for light therapy and put on a feeding plan. I was told to try BF and if that didn't work he was to get 60ml of milk every two hours. I had to pump what I could then top up with formula.
So we did that all ok and then I persevered and persevered and he then just managed to BF. Then bottle refused completely and also didn't accept dummies.

It is very hard to know what to do. I was so adamant I didn't want him to have formula but in hindsight it's such a silly thing to think. Actually I think babies sleep better on formula...I have a terrible sleeper!
I'm deffo not going to pressure myself to BF like I did last time. It just made me worried and miserable.

I guess you do just need to try a few things out. Best on mind don't give up after the first try of something if it doesn't go well. They need time to adapt.
If you do continue to BF I think it got easier for me at 3 months and then again at 6 months.
Wish you all the best x

Have you got a haakaa?

I use mine to catch whatever comes out the breast the my baby isn't feeding on so I have a few bottles of expressed milk in the fridge for when I need a break and my DH can feed our baby.

I was pumping for 12 weeks as my baby wouldn't latch,then for the past few weeks he's only breastfed.

Do you have a pillow to help breast feeding, my little one is super fussy about positions .

Already been suggested, but I also exclusively pumped for my ds who was also tt. The shit specialist mw I saw twice after we got home refused to refer me twice for it to be snipped. Eventually the hv referred me directly to a consultant who snipped it then and there, assisted by none other than....shit mw, who claimed to see it on the day it was snipped, the utter twat

But, I digress! Ds had developed a bottle preference by the time he had his tt snipped at 12 weeks, so I had to express. We made it to about a year doing that. It worked fine for us, but it isn't for everyone. If all else fails and you don't want to ff, there is that option.

My first choice would have been bf, but sometimes it's actually easier to pump! It is hard work, but so is bf tbf.

Is he actually actively feeding for that long? Or is he sleeping using you as a dummy? You want to see sucking and swallows happening, fluttering about on your nipple will be comfort and can be replaced by a dummy to give you a break. We have had tt lip tie, high palette and recessed chin to deal with all these things mean a poor latch, inefficient milk transferal and to gain weight I need to express 400ml for topping up a day. Is your baby gaining weight ok? I would try getting your husband to put baby down with dummy, in cot sssshhhing and patting tummy to get baby to sleep if you do it your more likely to put baby back on breast but if they have fed well they shouldn’t need it? If you don’t like dummies see it as a sleep aid to help for few months, I took them away at 6 months no issues for 2 babies. I would be looking at doing a good feed both breasts (remove if sleeping) say 7am, 10-11, 2, 5, 7 for bedtime and maybe one or two during night . Swop breasts as soon as baby stops actively sucking, try breast compressions to increase milk they take during a feed. Try top ups of 70ml formula after a feed to try and space out feeds? Good luck. It is hard but it shouldn’t be this hard, is baby getting good naps/nighttime sleep, if they are over tired every feed might be a chance to snooze, again nap wise I would look at 9ish and then an afternoon and another short nap before 5. Try to get longer than 40mins may need to push on buggy or rock a bit but a longer nap will help baby! Good luck!

Can I second the food diary a pp mentioned?

My ds had undiagnosed tt and reflux and I had some very dark moments at about 4m when I felt close to breaking point.

Yy to baby gaviscon - like magic if you can get it in him, use a syringe.

Re the food diary - my ds reacted to all sorts of things in my diet, tomatoes, orange juice, cauliflower and (sob) chocolate as well as dairy.

I like the idea of trying one bottle at the weekend to get ahead of pumping. Also if he wakes when you unlatch to change sides, are you sure he's not just comfort sucking rather than feeding? 20 mins one side, wind thoroughly, offer next side for 20 mins, wind - could it be that he's only actively filling his tummy for just a small length of time, comfort sucking for ages, then oh wait, I'm still actually hungry I need more, feed me now on the other side, but hang on I've still got wind, so I'm gonna fuss for an hour... Etc?

Easy for me to say now that mine are teenagers and they inhale food. But I do remember those dark hours etched on my brain. You're doing amazingly well op, you have absolutely advocated for your dc. Fed is best for him and for you.

@Cornettoninja thanks so much, everything your said makes a lot of sense. I may try popping the dummies in my bra and getting DH to give it to him. I think you’re right about him being latched on for a long time for comfort, and that there are other ways in which he can get this. Maybe I’ll try these things first rather than rushing to formula as I want to continue to BF anyway even if he does have a bit of formula here and there, so improving how long he’s latched on/the fussing is still important!

@Bancha thanks so much for sharing your experience, obviously having a bottle of formula a day offered many benefits for your family 😌 my husband is keen to help, and I think he finds it difficult to see me struggling when there’s not a lot he can do to help, so this kind of thing may work well for us x

@Luckytattie sounds like we had the exact same situation- we were in hosp until he was 10 dats old as he needed light therapy four times because he kept rebounding every time they stopped the treatment, and same issue - too sleepy to feed, so I was pumping and topping him up as he would only latch on for a few mins at a time, but now won’t take a dummy and is hit and miss with a bottle. Talking to everyone on here has been so helpful and I have a good idea of the next things to try now 😌 x

@whoknew23 I do have a Hakka, and I got a good stash going in the fridge for my DH to give him via bottle, but then we never used it a couple I had to Chuck it! I probably sound like I don’t want to help myself don’t I 🤦🏻‍♀️ for whatever reason I do feel quite precious about him being EBF and not keen on him having a dummy or a bottle, but I know that’s selfish and if it’ll help us both then it’s the best thing for him. I do have a nursing pillow but I don’t use it. I feed in the cross cradle position and lying down at night, but he fed will in the rugby hold before so maybe I should try that again x

@KatieKoala sorry you had a bad experience with the TT! To be fair it was very casually mentioned to me by a midwife in the hospital when I had him, but I was told unless it was causing an issue with feeding/weight gain it wouldn’t need to be addressed. The problems we are having didn’t start until he was 6/7 weeks, and we got some help through the HV at around 9 weeks, and it was then that the TT was brought up again and I was asked if I wanted to be referred to see if it needed snipping, which of course I said yes to. That’s amazing you pumped and fed that way for so long! I find pumping a faff, but that’s mostly because I can’t put baby down (he will only contact nap in the day) and so struggle to see how I could get started properly with pumping! Which is why I’m thinking maybe of trying formula once or twice, during which time I can pump while DH feeds him x

@birdglasspen thanks for this, so much good advice! I think he most likely is latched on for comfort a lot. If he’s settled I get fearful of unlatching him, because of the fussy feeding, so when he actually feeds nicely I don’t like to disturb him. What I have noticed is he definitely spends a fair bit of time doing the fluttering/pauses, but then he might start actively feeding again a bit later on, so I don’t take him off earlier as to me he’s not finished, but thinking it through it would make a lot more sense to take him off at the point where he’s fluttering/pausing and offering the other side. X