Can’t put 12 week old down at all - advice for a very tired mum please!

[MintGreenLife]

Hoping to pick everyone’s brains…

DS has never been happy being put down, all of his naps in the day and sleep over night is on myself or my husband. He went through a phase a few weeks ago where he actually started sleeping a couple of hours in his crib at night, but for two weeks now hasn’t spent more than 10 mins asleep in his crib at a time. We do shifts to stay awake and hold him at night time, but I’m really starting to struggle with how little sleep I’m getting now. He’s in a next 2 me crib at night and Moses basket in the day.

Have tried…

Arms up swaddle (not sure if it’s safe to keep using because of risk of rolling at this age, so swapped that for a standard sleep bag)
White noise
Warming mattress before putting him down
Placing hands on tummy and forehead once down
Holding arms down for a while to stop startling
Putting down when awake, in light sleep, in deep sleep
Rolling up towel to place around bottom of crib to create a ‘cocoon’

Any ideas/advice would be much appreciated! Xx

@Timeturnerplease we have considered if silent reflux is at play. Like you say, there’s a point where holding them for sleeping (and we do literally hold him for all of his night time sleep and day time naps) becomes too dangerous. There’s a heart rate monitor that’s recommended by the lullaby trust, so maybe if we do end up doing something that makes me feel a bit uneasy we will get one of those for peace of mind x

@Lullaby88 I’ll have to look into the cushioned cosleeper. Is there a specific brand I should be looking for? X

@mafsfan love the username ☺️

Yep he is exclusively breastfed. That’s really good to know. The more I think about it, the more I wonder if cosleeping will be the right thing to do, as will allow me to feed him laying down and avoid moving him and waking him up. I’m not 100% sure if it’ll work as I sometimes wonder if sleeping on his back is the issue, but is worth a try! Do you have any tips for cosleeping? I’m generally quite a cautious person, so when I’ve thought about it in the past I was planning on pushing the bed up against the wall, putting DS on one side between me and the wall, and me on the other side, with both of us in sleeping bags so no loose covers! X

Have you tried feeding lying down? I would get yourselves all ready and feed lying down and see if he falls asleep. Then wait for him to unlatch naturally rather than pulling him off. I had mine in a sleeping bag and I used to wear long sleeve PJs and tuck the quilt in at my waist but a sleeping bag for you is actually a good idea! I had them more in the middle of the bed and me on one side and learnt to feed from either boob on that side. You make a C shape around then so arm around their head end, legs around their lower end. It takes a little bit to feel confident to doze but if you can, I felt so much more rested for dozing whilst they fed and then going back to sleep without having to move. I'd also recommend cosleeping for a nap during the day as a way to catch up on some sleep, or just as some resting time. It's also a good way to have a practice because it doesn't seem as scary as at night!

@mafsfan the last time I tried to feed laying down was when we were still in hospital! I remember finding it quite uncomfortable, but at the time DS wasn’t latching well so think it was a bit of a struggle and the midwives were getting me to tryi all sorts of positions to help him. That’s a great idea - I’ll try feeding him laying down in the day to see if he falls asleep and stays asleep! He will only go to sleep when either feeding or being rocked, so in theory feeding laying down should work, it’s just whether he will stay asleep afterwards x

Another vote for co-sleeping here. Just FYI the purflo hasn’t been deemed safe for unsupervised sleeping by the lullaby trust (although has some clever marketing to suggest it is safe for night sleeping/has had other sources ok it for nights). Have you tried wearing the bed sheet/putting it down your top for a few hours so it smells like you? That worked for us and when we were desperate we’d also put in one of my T-shirt’s/bras next to our baby which seemed to help him stay asleep when we transferred and we’d then remove once he was in a deep sleep. Hope it gets better for you soon- it’s tough! X

Have you tried a dummy? I know we all hate them when we have our first but they definitely have their place. I stryggled to get my first two to take one but was more persistent wirh my 3rd (especially since my first sucked her fingers which is a much harder habit to stop since you can't take rhem away).

Anyway, we are lucky with our 12 week olds sleep and don't have to use it at night but it helps a lot with settling her in her bed for naps in the day.

I swaddle, give dummy (and gently hold it) and blast white noise (the rain and the ssshing noise) and have a glider crib that I can rock side to side (as opposed to a rocker). When I lie her down she fusses initially until she has all fhose things and fhen she settles.

White noise is supposed to be louder than the crying to be effective and that definitely is true for DD.

Its not a perfect system as she does still have a lot of her naps on me but its definitely helping.

@MOR19 thanks for the advice, good to know about the Purflo! Do you have any cosleeping advice at all? Actually we had to do that last weekend when DS wouldn’t settle on anyone else but me and I was desperate to get some sleep - after all day trying to go off and get a couple of hours sleep, we ended up putting one of my tops on my husbands shoulder before putting DS up on his shoulder. Finally he settled and I managed to get a couple of hours sleep, so that could be well worth a try! X

@Muststopeating have tried a dummy and he just won’t take it. Maybe I’ve not tried enough - I hold it in there and tap it to encourage him to suck, but he looks so offended by it! Pulls faces like he’s choking and pushes it out at every opportunity. For this reason I give in after a minute or so as he looks so uncomfortable. Did you find the same? Or not quite as bad a reaction? He was sleeping in a swaddle type sleep bag and I think he was staying down in his crib a bit better when we were using that, but I’m too worried about the risk of rolling now, but perhaps I’m being over cautious! I did just get 40 mins out of him now which is the most time he’s spent in his crib in several weeks. I can’t quite work out what’s happening in all honesty - that was the third time I had tried to put him down as trying the picking up and putting down again method. Once down he initially seems settled, then every few minutes he flings his arms open and starts swinging his legs around. Every now and then he might let out a cry too. He might do this a few times before he wakes up properly and starts crying. Occasionally he will be doing this for 15 mins or so and then go into a deep sleep for 20 mins, before he wakes up again! X

My 'on me' sleeper got significantly better after some sessions with a cranial osteopath. It was amazing. It's non-invasive, tiny movements on the baby's head that help settle any discomfort. Ask around for recommendations. We did also use a baby sheepskin- on top of the cot sheet so the baby sleeps directly on it. You can still use a sleeping bag or swaddle but I think it just feels cosier and more like they are being held.

I'm wondering if he doesn't like being on his back. My DS also had silent reflux and hated being laid flat. I had to hold him for naps or take him for a walk in the seat part of the pushchair that I cojld incline. But thankfully at night he would go down in his cot. He screamed in the moses basket or carry cot and had outgrown them anyway by 12 weeks.

We had a Next to Me for DS2 and you can put it at an incline. Have you tried that?

Definitely look back into reflux. It is usually caused by something else, like diary intolerance or allergy. If you're BF, try cutting out diary from your own diet for a while and see if there is any improvement. Personally, I'd try that before attempting cosleeping.

The flinging around sounds like silent reflux or cmpa. GPs are not great with it & gaciscon sometimes won't touch it. You need to see a good private specialist, you might need the next couple of lines of treatment which are usually ranitidine then omeprazole and sometimes anti histamine. I'd have a look into it.

[quote MintGreenLife]@MOR19 thanks for the advice, good to know about the Purflo! Do you have any cosleeping advice at all? Actually we had to do that last weekend when DS wouldn’t settle on anyone else but me and I was desperate to get some sleep - after all day trying to go off and get a couple of hours sleep, we ended up putting one of my tops on my husbands shoulder before putting DS up on his shoulder. Finally he settled and I managed to get a couple of hours sleep, so that could be well worth a try! X[/quote]
The lullaby trust has some guidance on cosleeping here: www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/co-sleeping/

Although I was quite anxious about it so kicked my husband into the spare room so the baby could go in the middle of the bed and I didn’t have a duvet on the bed (just wore thick PJs and socks!) - helped us all get some sleep until our little one eventually went into the cot.

@Mintgreenlife I'd look into the ones that are approved for safe night sleep sleeping and breathable and one with a removalble cover incase of any accidents. Should be fine if it has any of those. I bought mine from amazon for a decent price.
I struggled with my baby and bought this so he could be close to me safely.

At the start he wouldn't be put down anywhere so this was a good option as I could put my arm around him whilst he was on the co sleeper.
If u are breastfeeding as u mentioned I would breastfeed my child laying down in the bed and he would fall asleep then I'd put him straight into the co sleeper. But before I had the cosleeper I would just bf him to sleep move all duvets off and just co sleep but I didn't like the idea of doing this hence I got him the in bed cosleeper.
I looked into a co sleeper that allows u access to breastfeed laying down so if he did fall sleep he would be in his co sleeper. But it was quite pricy and I wasn't planning to breastfeed for a long period of time. But if u are then it might be worth looking into to get u some rest!

My second has never slept in a Moses basket/cot. Instead we baby proofed the room and had a floor bed (wanky phrase for mattress straight on slates on the floor) and I was would feed her to sleep and roll away. I coslept with my first from 6 months but she was ff and cuddled to sleep and then we would roll away. By 22 months they sleeping in their own bed albeit with us sometimes joining them for a bit a night. More people cosleep at some point then don’t. Your babu is tiny and you are their safe place. Read up on the 4th trimester.

Yes, mine all looked utterly offended by a dummy and because I wasn't really keen on it I only ever half heartedly tried.

With 3 under 4, I was a bit more invested this time. It took a few attempts, I think I did things like holding her for a feed (but when she wasn't hungry) and then putting it in. Lots of cradling/schugling (sp) while she was getting used to it. I did the tapping, made funny sucking noises too. She still takes a while to properly start sucking and rocking her while holding the dummy in takes aome funny positioning but it is honestly one of the best things we've done this time.

For the record she is also EBF and we started it quite early on and never had any nipple confusion. Also, I find Nuk dummies are a better shape than the traditional cherry shape ones.

Was also going to suggest the incline that a previous poster mentioned. We did this with DD a while ago when she was very grunty at night and wouldn't go down. It may have been a coincidence but the time she'd sleep in bed definitely improved around that time. (HV had recommended it too so I think it does fit with sleep guidelines, which I also obsess about even with number 3).

Re. swaddle and rolling, yes you do need to adjust but have they showed signs of rolling yet? I think you probably have another month before you need to worry too much, which might be enough time for them to get used to the bed. Also, remember babiea 'normally' roll from tummy to back before they can do back to tummy.

Honestly we co slept for way longer than I intended but he was an awful sleeper and didn't sleep through till he was 4.

When he was a baby he would only sleep cuddled up next to me so he was touching me.

I did it out of desperation and then when I went back to work out of necessity.

We tried everything, and sleep trained over and over again. But he just had to be old enough to settle himself. He did have reflux and nightmares/ night terrors. I even caught him sleep walking when he was 2 .

By co sleeping the wakings were easier to manage and it meant we all slept.

My next baby was in a cot at 6 weeks. Some baby's just don't sleep!

@BoattoBolivia I keep getting recommended cranial osteopathy, so I think we will try this! I had a forceps delivery that left DS with a lump on the back of his neck (gone now) and bruising to the face 😢 so could quite easily be suffering from that.

@ACNHMAMA thanks for your reply. See I have wondered about this, but he’s happy as Larry lay on his changing mat or under his activity gym flat on his beck, so not sure on that one. I cut diary out for 6 weeks but I don’t think it made any difference, and have his next 2 me inclined, again not sure it’s helped at all x

@SoftplayTaintedLove is that not normal baby behaviour then? Sounds like a stupid question, but I thought all babies moved around in their sleep quite a lot. I cut out dairy for 6 weeks and it didn’t seem to make any difference, so maybe it is reflux at play, although I thought some of the other symptoms he had had really improved, plus he’s fine on his back for play and nappy changes, in fact best time for smiling and chat is during happy changes x

Haven’t read the full thread but have you considered a stretchy wrap for day time so you can at least have some hands free time?

@MintGreenLife I also used to use a s waddle muslin blanket just as a blanket and tuck it over the top is ds arms - I literally tucked the edges of the blanket under the edge of moses basket mattress so his arms were in - only up to his chest so around elbow level on arms. I also tucked the bottom under for of mattress so he couldn't pull it over his head.
Sorry that's probably a really bad description. But i think it gave the feeling of being swaddled without actually being in a swaddle. His arms were usually out after a couple of hours but sometimes it helped for the initial transfer to cot

@MOR19 thank you. Yeah I had already thought DH would need to sleep in the spare room, egg bed I don’t think he would be that bothered by if it meant he could get a decent amount of sleep!

@Lullaby88 thanks so much, I will do some research! X

@Fallagain thanks for your reply ☺️ I’m aware of the fourth trimester, but that doesn’t make the extreme sleep deprivation any easier. It’s so hard not to compare sometimes as in contrast friends who’s babies sleep through the night around a similar age, but they are formula fed so I know that makes a difference x

@Fallagain also just to confirm I know not to expect him to sleep through for a long time! If I could just work out a way that he could sleep laying down if even just for a few hours that would make a huge difference!

I think that you can be recommended a hundred different things and could end up spending a fortune and still having the same problem so I'd maybe try one thing at a time rather than feel panicked into all these different options. As he's BF, the cheapest and easiest to try is cosleeping, maybe for a nap today. It's very likely that the comfort and warmth of being next to and attached to you will send him to sleep as he has been on you. Then you can start to decide whether you can relax enough to get some rest, maybe even sleep whilst he is feeding and sleeping.

If that doesn't work for you, then you need to think about things that replicate the comfort and warmth he gets from being on you. That might include a dummy to replicate he sucking, things things that smell like you, etc. Babies aren't made to sleep on their own in a cot - that's our modern take on parenting. If you think about your baby's instincts, it's always to be with their mother. If you don't want to be with them all the time, then replicating those conditions may work.

If that doesn't suit, you can try other things that have been suggested - pram, bouncy chair, white noise, etc. But the movement ones are obviously only going to be suitable for naps, they're not going to help with nighttime. I agree with the PP that a sling for the daytime is a life saver, but it doesn't get you any extra rest. Definitely something to consider if you don't have one though as it gives your baby all those comforts of being next to you.

If nothing like that works, I'd consider GP, cranial osteopath etc but if your only 'symptom' is not sleeping separately from you, I would try other things first.

Remember that babies do need help to go to sleep. It's not like the movies where you just put a baby in a cot and leave it to go to sleep. Well it's not for 99% of people anyway!! Whatever tool you use to help your baby sleep also has to be taken away at some point, even gradually, so although you won't want to cosleep forever, you probably equally won't want to be rocking a 2 year old, or have a 4 year old who needs a dummy or white noise etc. My point is find what works for you and your baby, don't worry too much about the stupid 'rod for your own back' phrase! As with everything in parenting, you adjust the way you do things at the stage they need to be adjusted. If that makes sense!