Not sure whether we've come to the end of the road with our nursery

[Ladybyrd]

Hi,

Our 4 year old was born in early September, meaning he won't start school until next September now, but I'm getting worried he isn't getting enough mental stimulation at the nursery. Every day when I pick him up, it's a lot of negative feedback about how he hasn't been listening, or has been playing roughly, not doing as he is told and generally misbehaving. He is not perfect, but we're seeing nothing on this scale at home.

These problems always seem to occur during play sessions, but given how often they're happening, I'm starting to wonder what activities they do throughout the day. I asked his key worker but the answer was pretty vague. I said I was concerned that he is acting up because he was bored, and in all honesty, we haven't had any pictures or writing come home in months.

Things got like this before, then he had a glowing report, but now we seem to be back on a downward trajectory again. I was a bit taken aback that one of the observations mentioned him counting from 1 to 10 the other day. He was doing that a year ago.

I don't know what to do for the best for him. Might he be better in preschool? Would it even be possible now, or is it too late?

I have gone over and over and over with him that he needs to do as he's asked, and he does, at home. He's always good with his baby sister. If I ask him to do something, he generally does - he does like to be praised. But every time I pick him up I'm having to go over poor behaviour at nursery, and apparently it just isn't working.

The nursery tell me there are some other children there who are quite boisterous when they're playing too, but there isn't another group to put him in. I don't really know what to do, but I don't feel like I can stand by and do nothing. I talked to them and they have said they will work with me, but has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks

I think pre-school is better for 3/4ish year olds. It preps them for school and gives a bit more structure in the day rather than just playing.

I’d definitely put a 4 year old in pre school. Does the nursery not have a separate room for the pre school age children?

Get him into a proper school based nursery/pre school run by qualified teachers. There is no comparison in quality.

Thanks @Letsallscreamatthesistene. I feel a bit out of my depth as I'm not really sure what they're meant to be doing at that age at nursery. I didn't get them impression they just played all day before, but I know a lot of the messier activities stopped with covid. I do think he needs to be learning more though, and maybe it just isn't right for him anymore. Thank you

@Bimblybomeyelash He is in with younger children, starting from 2, as far as I'm aware.

@pompomsgalore I'm leaning that way. He's really interested in numbers, the alphabet and countries of the world. I think he'd benefit from more structure.

Thank you

My almost-4 year old (early November) has just started at a pre-prep 3 days a week. He is thriving. It’s a really lovely mix of outdoor activities, free play and more structured activities. They do carpet time, very light reading/writing etc. He is so much more stimulated there than at his old nursery which was very as you describe.

My ( just) 3 year old grandaughter doesn’t play with 2 year olds at nursery...they are in the 2 year room....why is he with 2 year olds when he’s 4? I would be asking nursery that

I was just going to ask if he is much older than the other kids. There is a huge difference between 2YO and 4YO.

I would put him in a preschool rather than nursery. Nursery is more about childcare rather than education IME. Alternatively is there another nursery able to take him and place him with more of his peers?

FWIW, my two spring born DC were in nursery school from 3YO.

Kids do grow out of nursery and yes a pre school might be better but ime they tend to be just mornings or afternoons. What about a school nursery?

Crikey, I need to do more research!

I do need to check on the age mix, but I know there are some a fair bit younger than him, as he is big for his age.

I'm reluctant to separate him from his friends, because he has made some really sweet little friendships, but little niggles are turning into big red flags. Not that I think there's anything wrong with the nursery, I'm just not convinced it's right for him anymore.

I think a school nursery is a good shout, ideally attached to the school he will eventually attend of there is one. They def do quite a lot of structured work, especially reading and early writing. When my sons started receptions the ones who had been to the school nursery were way ahead on their phonics and ability to write. I think it all sorts itself out during the first two years of proper school but it sounds like your son would benefit from the structure.
Of course they can only provide term time only as in the case our school nursery they want them in every day, mornings or afternoons only. Which isn’t helpful at all to working parents!
Others are more flexible though. If you call round now you can probably find one which will take him in January

@Frazzled2207 My first school choice does have a nursery school attached, so this is my thoughts too. He does go during school holidays at present, but I will have to get used to that soon enough anyhow. And he is pretty good at entertaining himself, just if his baby sister is off too, forget it!

I did wonder about changing partway through. I just feel it all coming to a head now. I have told the nursery my concerns after biting my lip for weeks, but I can't imagine why anything would suddenly change - can't realistically expect them to add lots of activities or give him special attention, but he does need more structure.

Thank you all

You might be able to do a combination. Due to needing full day childcare my son did 2 days at his regular private nursery and then 3 days at school nursery and I then used private nursery full time in school hols. It worked perfectly for that year. School were happy as they got the full funding for my son but he didn’t attend 2 days. I had to pay full days for private nursery though but I thought it was worth it. My son is now a teen so it was a while ago now but I had the same issue with private nursery not really being suitable anymore. He then kept old friends plus made new school ones.

I think preschool would be perfect for him. My eldest is summer born but she was so so ready for some structure and proper ‘teaching’ by preschool age. She also adapted so well to reception as she was used to the environment. I would definitely go for it- nursery is fantastic for little kids but some kids do need the challenge that preschool/school gives. I always wonder when people complain that our school system starts too early how they manage this in other countries as both of mine were so so ready for school by the time they went!

@Ladybyrd

Crikey, I need to do more research!

I do need to check on the age mix, but I know there are some a fair bit younger than him, as he is big for his age.

I'm reluctant to separate him from his friends, because he has made some really sweet little friendships, but little niggles are turning into big red flags. Not that I think there's anything wrong with the nursery, I'm just not convinced it's right for him anymore.

How many friends do you have now that you were friendly with at the age of three?He will make new friends in his new pre school I'm sure.

My September born dd2 was 4 recently and starts school next September. I took her out of the private day nursery mid August and she's now at a local pre school nursery attached to a primary school. We are using our 30hours to cover 3 long days, using before and after school club. I did this because October born dd1 outgrew the nursery and I got similar feedback about her behaviour, being rude etc from the nursery when she was 4. I said to myself then I'm not doing this again and hence dd2 has moved. I had a wobble about her missing her friends but she's been fine and other families from the nursery have done the same so she still sees some of the sam children. If you have a local preschool in mind I'd call re availability and having a look.

Surely all private nurseries have pre-school rooms?! These should have a qualified teacher in them and are no real different to a school pre-school/nursery?

My DD went to nursery. They had 3 rooms. Baby 0-18 months-ish. Toddler 18 months- 3 years-ish. Pre-School 3-school.

They had a teacher & spent the entire year before school doing school prep really. Daily phonics sessions, daily numeracy sessions. A lot of free play but focused activities too. The teacher sent us planning each month. They had a structured routine, circle time, show & tell.

I think you are unfortunate that your child turns 4 very early on in the term, a few weeks earlier & he’d have been at school. And he sounds like he’s quite interested & good at learning. Nursery should be differentiating for the older children & they should be cracking on with phonics etc.

My daughter is august born so has now started school but was previously in a pre school room at nursery with no children younger than 3.5. They were doing writing numbers and letters and basic phonics. I think you probably need a setting like that at this age

What @pompomsgalore said ! A decent pre school will provide the foundations for a successful early education. Qualified staff need to be initiating and planning learning through play that will develop his phonological awareness and contextual phonics / opportunities for early writing and mark making. Your DS sounds like he is ready and eager to learn which is great and this needs to be grasped and built on

I’ve got a September 1st born daughter. We moved her from her lovely day nursery into the preschool of the school she later went to the term starting on her 4th birthday because she was clearly bored in a way her July born sister hadn’t been.

Our preschool has a September and January intake so it may be worth enquiring with your local schools.

"Surely all private nurseries have pre-school rooms?! These should have a qualified teacher in them and are no real different to a school pre-school/nursery?"

God no, not here. Nothing like. And talk about phonics has started even more bells ringing. I haven't heard mention of phonics for months.

I'm not someone who likes to rock the boat, and having them both at home for a year through the pandemic, I was glad of the help for a long time. But yes. More and more I've been wondering if this is the right environment. What - 20/20 votes now? I think I know what to do. Thank you.

It definitely seems a big age range. My son is still at a private nursery & is 4 in the next couple of months. His nursery has five rooms between 0-5. He’s in a specific pre school room doing lots of structured activities, carpet time, yoga/exercise, messy play, outdoor play, writing/craft/phonics etc. Contact the one attached to the school, they may well have a 30 hour place still available/from October break/Christmas. If not try other private nurseries, what worked when he was tiny might just not fit him any more & that’s okay. Don’t feel guilty to him or the nursery

He sounds very similar to my almost 4 year old. We were getting nothing back in terms of feedback or work from nursery and had a few occasions where they have commented on his behaviour despite him being (I think!) fairly obedient at home.
So we put him in pre school 3 days a week at the start of September and the difference has been huge. He is so much happier and we are getting much more feedback. The day is much more structured too which I think he benefits from. Rather than children coming and going at all times like in nursery, at pre school they all start and finish at the same time. I believe there is much less free play too so less chance for them to get into trouble.
I have kept him in nursery one day a week, purely for the term time issue so in school holidays I can increase his days again at nursery. That said he's now complaining about going to the one day of nursery so i may just have to put him in pre school full time. But definitely a success and I would certainly recommend if you have a decent pre school nearby.

Most private nursery do have “pre-school” as part of their mix. It isn’t just about playing. The stuff my daughter did at her school’s pre-school was exactly the same as the private nursery she also went to. I think there is a lot of confusion because of the word nursery, but they are essentially the same, which is why they can partner with the local authorities to provide the funded hours.

And despite doing both of these really good pre-school settings she was in, she was utterly bored in the last year. Just as she was utterly bored with primary 7. She is one of the older ones in the class. I was apparently the same having just missed the cut off when I was that age. They get to the point where they are ready to move on. You might find another that stimulates more but it’s unlikely, TBH. Your choice is ride it out or have him at home.