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Original poster

children being taken abroad

46 replies

janebam · 24/09/2021 19:47

first post

I was married for seven years. I was the breadwinner.

I had two children with my ex. we split up when found out they were having an affair. Our daughters were aged 2 and 4 at the time.

We shared custody / parental responsibility from the day we split up. I had to accept a big demotion at work to be able to have a work situation where I could do the day to day things for my daughters.

Now, he has announced he is moving to germany, where his parents are from. Our children have duel nationality.

I have been to a solicitor and they have told me that because he is the primary carer, even though we have split care 50/50 for the last 7 years, I have no say in this.

The solicitor said the best i can hope for is an agreement for weekly zoom calls with my children.

Surely this can;t be right?

OP posts:
Pissinthepottyplease · 25/09/2021 08:44

I don’t think it is. You need to speak to another solicitor.

Original poster
janebam · 25/09/2021 11:46

I've spoken to two different solicitors, CAFCASS got involved as well - they said that as long as the children are going to be provided for (housed, educated) there is nothing I can do, even though i have joint parental responsibility

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/09/2021 11:56

Eh you can get a prohibitive steps order for a start so they can't be removed from the current school without your permission for a start.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

2 year olds Families Family law General parenting
Original poster
janebam · 25/09/2021 20:00

@RandomMess

Eh you can get a prohibitive steps order for a start so they can't be removed from the current school without your permission for a start.
that isn't relevant as he has applied for a court order
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RandomMess · 25/09/2021 22:40

I don't understand why your solicitors have been so negative.

Have you taken the DC to Drs, dentists, health appointments? Do you have evidence that the care is 50:50?

What do the DC say they want?

Absolutely fight it or compromise that you get large chunks of holidays including Christmas abs he is liable for the DC travel costs and he needs to bring them and collect also you could
Fly over for long weekends.

I know plenty of people where the resident parent was stopped by the courts tbh.

TurnUpTurnip · 25/09/2021 22:43

This makes no sense, I was told my absent ex has to give me permission to travel on holiday abroad let alone MOVE! And this is a man that isn’t involved but because he has PR I would need his permission so this doesn’t add up.

GettingItOutThere · 25/09/2021 23:03

this isnt right! how many mothers have had their children banned from moving even 100 miles down the road?

no way is this right, and its terrifying. Please get a better lawyer

Original poster
janebam · 25/09/2021 23:57

I have the best solicitor I can afford.

We had to go to mediation, then CAFCASS did an assessment and they said as long as he is putting them in school and providing normal care, I have no say. That was the recommendation at the court.

the only thing i could stipulate was that I would have zoom calls

OP posts:
GreatestHits · 26/09/2021 00:12

Surely the Hague Convention means your ex can't take your children to live abroad without your permission?

RandomMess · 26/09/2021 07:56

Does this mean he already had a court order as primary resident?

Kitkat151 · 26/09/2021 08:02

What makes him primary carer if 50/50? What des he do that you don’t?

GettingItOutThere · 26/09/2021 21:39

if he is primary resident/care this is different/ (not that i agree with any parent whipping their kids to another country but..)

if your court order says 50-50 this is insaine.

Bobholll · 27/09/2021 13:18

Why is he the primary carer if you have a 50-50 split? That’s the crux of your issue. Where do the children live predominantly? With him or you? Or a complete split 3.5 days a week? Have you had a court order in place since you split?

SusanBAnthony999 · 27/09/2021 13:36

Who do the children live with at the moment and how old are they?

If they are over 10 years old, how is their spoken and written German? How will they be educated in Germany? Do they have places at an English speaking school or will they expect to join the German system? This will be very difficult unless they already have a high level of German. Would it be in their best interests to inflict this change on them?

Ellarain · 27/09/2021 14:37

Somethings not adding up here.

Original poster
janebam · 29/09/2021 13:14

We never had a court order because we didn't need one.

We wrote a "Statement of Arrangements" regarding our children, for the divorce, years ago. It said that the children would live with each of us on such and such days. It said that this would be flexible for holidays or by mutual agreement. they key phrase we used throughout the SOA was "in consultation with the children. IE. It was a child focused agreement.

We have always had joint parental responsibility, but he has always been "primary" as one parent has to be. I agreed to this when we first divorced as i was the breadwinner and he worked part time, so was always there to pick the kids up from school etc.

He's remarried and they want to move abroad as the standard of life, education, health care, child care and everything else is better in Germany than here. They can afford to buy a lovely big house with loads of land for less than a small flat here.

The advice I've had from TWO solicitors now is that I could engage in a very expensive legal battle, which will have the same outcome and will be very intrusive into our childrens lives, but there is nothing i can do to stop him moving abroad with our daughters. The criteria of the family court are: will the children be housed, educated and cared for. Which they will.

Our daughters have spent lots of school holidays and half terms etc in Germany, with his extended family and are bi lingual.

He's had a lot of time to talk to them about how much better life will be there. he's remarried and has two younger children. My daughters have said they would prefer to stay together as a family and will visit me in England in school holidays.

OP posts:
Original poster
janebam · 29/09/2021 13:15

@RandomMess

I don't understand why your solicitors have been so negative.

Have you taken the DC to Drs, dentists, health appointments? Do you have evidence that the care is 50:50?

What do the DC say they want?

Absolutely fight it or compromise that you get large chunks of holidays including Christmas abs he is liable for the DC travel costs and he needs to bring them and collect also you could
Fly over for long weekends.

I know plenty of people where the resident parent was stopped by the courts tbh.

yes he's agreed to pay the travel costs for them to visit during holidays
OP posts:
RestingPandaFace · 29/09/2021 13:17

What is stopping you from applying to court for an order anyway?

Original poster
janebam · 29/09/2021 13:23

@RestingPandaFace

What is stopping you from applying to court for an order anyway?
apply to the court for an order to what? exactly?
OP posts:
Original poster
janebam · 29/09/2021 13:31

the process went like this

he informed me he wanted to move to germany

i got legal advice

we went to mediation, where he explained the children would be properly cared for. I asked that he wait until they are older (like going to university age)

he applied to the family court for permission to move abroad

cafcass got involved, assessed that our daughters would be properly cared for

the family court judge awarded the order for him to move

OP posts:
BingBongToTheMoon · 29/09/2021 13:34

If he’s had the court order approved then they’re moving.
I’m sorry.

KimDeals · 29/09/2021 13:38

@janebam

the process went like this

he informed me he wanted to move to germany

i got legal advice

we went to mediation, where he explained the children would be properly cared for. I asked that he wait until they are older (like going to university age)

he applied to the family court for permission to move abroad

cafcass got involved, assessed that our daughters would be properly cared for

the family court judge awarded the order for him to move

He went to court and was granted leave to remove?
RestingPandaFace · 29/09/2021 13:42

Sorry it wasn’t clear to me that you had been to court. That’s really awful, I’m sorry.

beautifullymad · 29/09/2021 13:56

Can you relocate the Germany with them? What a hideous situation and you've done everything right. Really feeling for you.

Original poster
janebam · 29/09/2021 14:59

@beautifullymad

Can you relocate the Germany with them? What a hideous situation and you've done everything right. Really feeling for you.
It's really not easy to move to the EU now. My daughters have duel nationality, but I only have a british passport.

A couple of years ago i would have moved to be near my daughters, even though that would mean being away from the rest of my family and friends, but because of Brexit you can;t just go and live in Germany now

OP posts: