children being taken abroad

[janebam]

first post

I was married for seven years. I was the breadwinner.

I had two children with my ex. we split up when found out they were having an affair. Our daughters were aged 2 and 4 at the time.

We shared custody / parental responsibility from the day we split up. I had to accept a big demotion at work to be able to have a work situation where I could do the day to day things for my daughters.

Now, he has announced he is moving to germany, where his parents are from. Our children have duel nationality.

I have been to a solicitor and they have told me that because he is the primary carer, even though we have split care 50/50 for the last 7 years, I have no say in this.

The solicitor said the best i can hope for is an agreement for weekly zoom calls with my children.

Surely this can;t be right?

It sounds like your children's thoughts have been taken into account although I'm still surprised a court have decided it's ok for them to move to another country

Im sorry OP but I think theres a back story here that we're not being told.

The circumstances you describe are so rare and are granted only when one parent isnt willing too or cant provid adequate care.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Im sorry OP but I think theres a back story here that we're not being told.

The circumstances you describe are so rare and are granted only when one parent isnt willing too or cant provid adequate care.

Me too. I think the girls' opinions have probably factored quite heavily.

@EveryFlightBeginsWithAFall

It sounds like your children's thoughts have been taken into account although I'm still surprised a court have decided it's ok for them to move to another country

my children were briefly consulted, by someone from cafcass, over the phone, during lockdown. they said they were willing to move and understood the implications

Lolling at 'warped bitch' 😂

I do know the realities of law, having helped several of my friends go through these types of situations. It was Spain and Norway though, not Germany.

rather than attack me, perhaps you should look into the realities of the law

I'm a dual national living in my DH's country. The legal advice was that not in a million years would I be able to convince a court that I could leave the country with DC if the relationship broke down. I've also seen two sets of friends and one family go through this. They always stay where they're ordinarily resident.

That doesn't mean this isn't incredibly distressing for you.

If it's already court ordered I'm not sure what other advice there is. Did you have legal advice in court? Did you appeal it? It's incredibly rare for courts to order this when dc are settled in this way and you've had 50/50 care. Mothers who have had dc with abusive men who have played no part in actually bringing up their child are frequently made to stay in certain areas let alone certain countries. Is there a part of the story missing or has he lied? I guess the fact the dc want to stay is a factor but that was only brief you say?!

How old are your girls OP? It's sounds tough OP I feel for you.

I'm sorry op this must be very distressing but if it's court ordered, this has already been deemed to be in your daughters best interests.
I have heard of similar cases, where the primary carer has been given leave to move. It's the risk rightly or wrongly of not being deemed the primary care giver.
In all honesty I would focus your efforts now on helping settle them into their new life and making plans to visit and zoom as often as possible.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

Lolling at 'warped bitch' 😂

I do know the realities of law, having helped several of my friends go through these types of situations. It was Spain and Norway though, not Germany.

ok. that explains everything. you know someone who knows someone who knows someone, whose circumstances have no bearing on mine

if you know the "realities of law" then you will know that the primary carer can move

Ok OP. Have a nice day.

"ok. that explains everything. you know someone who knows someone who knows someone, whose circumstances have no bearing on mine"

As another poster pointed out, you need specialist legal advice. You're unlikely to receive that here, merely anecdotal evidence.

@Ladybyrd

"ok. that explains everything. you know someone who knows someone who knows someone, whose circumstances have no bearing on mine"

As another poster pointed out, you need specialist legal advice. You're unlikely to receive that here, merely anecdotal evidence.

OP has had specialist legal advice though. This is a decision already made by the courts with legal representation. It's an incredibly unusual decision though. Anecdotally I've been involved in a potentially Hague case personally myself not just a friends of a friend. I did a huge amount of research to the point I was able to remind my lawyer, who was an expert in the subject. The bottom line is the chance removing children from their settled habitual residence is slim without the agreement of both parents. Resident parent shouldn't mean a huge amount if you can prove 50/50 anyway but I've seen plenty non resident parents stopping such a move. I'm honestly not sure how this has happened without perhaps a gap in the story or lies on the ex partners part which you'd thought would have been raised in court. Anyway OP is understandably very upset therefore responding a bit defensively to people trying to help on a post there isn't much advice to be given now the court decision is made. Appeal, move or make the best of a long distance relationship mine would be the first 2 in order. Yes it will be more difficult to move to Germany now but not impossible

I think the OP had no choice but to change solicitors, or at least seek a second opinion, unless she is going to accede. If he says he can't follow her instructions, what choice is there?

@Ladybyrd she said she'd had advice from 2 separate solicitors already. Poor advice it seems, but yes I'd certainly consult a 3rd.

No court order, just a statement of arrangements written years ago. That should be their starting point.

@Ladybyrd that's re the 50/50 childcare after divorce. A judge has recently ordered that the dc can be taken to live in Germany. This wasn't clear in the original post.

I really feel for you and it's awful how selfish your ex has been but I think you may better accepting it

Sadly your DDs are too torn to go against Dad and probably too young to fully understand the realities of the decision made and what not seeing you for weeks on end will be like.

They may decide to move back and live with you as soon as they are older enough around 16.

Focus on building a very strong relationship with them, lots of FaceTime contact etc.

So the children are 9 and 11 now?

If it's been granted there isn't much you can do I'm sorry OP

was your 50/50 split exactly that? Or was there a slight skew in his favour hence why he was classed as primary caregiver? If you had to take a pay cut to be at home more with them and he only worked part time financially how did he support himself and the children??

Aw this is awful. I relative of mine had his daughter taken the other side of the world and false contact details were given. He never heard from her again. Family courts are shit sometimes.