Bedtime - what am I doing wrong?

[LettucesAndRoses]

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping some of you might be able to give me some ideas to work through issues getting my DD to sleep at night. She's 11 months now and apart from a few weeks of okay sleep before 5 months, she's been taking around 2 hours to go to sleep at night and waking multiple times (every 2 hours or so). She's breastfed.

She's always been a late sleeper, she usually wakes up around 9 or 9.30 in the morning, naps 3 hours later for 1.5 to 2 hours then again 3 hours later for 1 to 1.5 hours. She's awake after her second nap anywhere between 7 and 8 so her bedtime is 3 hours after that, when she shows signs she's tired.
After her last nap, we play a bit then she sits in her chair while I finish making dinner, then we eat together, have a bath, do a little baby massage and read books with a small light on. I breastfeed her then hold her and walk around singing for a while. And then she turns into a monster! She's super agitated, pushes me away but cries if I put her down, tries to run and jump etc. She keeps going until she can't fight sleep anymore. I keep offering comfort, breast, cuddles, stroking... The process took 2 hours again tonight and I feel I must be doing something wrong. Can you see an obvious problem with our routine?

I have no intention to sleep train, before anyone suggests it. I'm just wondering if I'm completely missing something or if it's just the way she is.

Thanks in advance to whoever took the time to read my loooong post!

Sorry if I have misunderstood.

So does she wake up from her nap at 7-8pm then has dinner?

If it is how I read it then 7-8pm is far too late to be waking up from a nap at that age.

I'd probably try to keep it to one nap and keep her occupied and have dinner around 5/6ish. She might be feeling a bit full too having dinner quite late.

That's the issue here I think is the late nap. If you tried to cut it out or cut the morning one so she naps around 1ish to say 3ish. I think you'd have an easier bedtime.

No dogs at you at all, not sure if it came across that way.

DIGS* not dogs 🤦🏻‍♀️.

7-8 pm?

The issue is the second nap ending at 7-8 pm. Children have hormonal cycles regulating their sleep, and hers will be out of sync with her sleep times because of that nap.

I would be trying to shift everything forward and have her go to bed between 7 and 8, with her second nap ending roughly 3 hours before (so around 4-5pm at the latest).

So her schedule might be:

9:00 - wake

12:00 - 1:00 nap

4:00 - 5:00 - nap

8:00 - bed

You may then find that she starts waking earlier and the whole thing shifts again.

Hi,bayou must be exhausted.

I’m curious about the late wake up now that she is 11 months old? Are you a SAHM or returning to work shortly? If it’s the latter, you may want to think about restructuring the day. Wake at 7am, lunch 11am, nap 11.30/12 - 2pm and no nap after that. Snack at 3pm, dinner 5pm is, 6.00, start bath and bed - 6.30/7.

If you’re a SAHM, if it’s not impacting on what you want I do in a day, keep as is for you.

I know you mention not training, which is fine. However, by holding as much as you are it’s really tricky for her to learn how to self soothe and fall asleep alone afterwards. As a baby she likely falls asleep in your arms, wakes up and you’re gone. She won’t know at that age properly that you do come back.

I don’t have any other advice

Good luck

Her last nap is too late. My first was a late riser (7.30)and late to sleep at night ( usually about 8-9pm) but I didn’t let him sleep last 5 pm. He would just sit and be cuddled when awake.
Dd is impossible to cuddle and a complete pain to get to sleep so I don’t let her sleep after 3 pm ( that was my HV advice with my first but it didn’t work with him) and so she’s asleep by 8.30.
Gradually adjust times so they don’t notice or be rotten and wake them up earlier and enforce the new naps

Crikey she is going to bed very late!
It would be much easier on both of you if you start her bedtime routine much earlier, and have her in bed for the night by 7.30/8pm.

You could try stretching her morning nap to nearer to midday, and have it last longer. Drop the evening nap.

Did someone advise this routine you have now op?

You have got to stop or dramatically shorten her last nap. She should be going to be by 8, not just waking up from a nap.

I think shes having way to much day sleep.

That late nap is what's wrong. I would aim for waking up at 07.30, nap at 10.30 (I wouldn't cap this unless it goes longer than 2.5 hours). Then nap at 3.30 until 4.30. I would then put in bed at 7pm for a story and sleep at 7.30. Over the next few months, I would then stretch out the morning awake window so her nap is at 11.00 and then drop the second nap.

As everyone else has said, that second nap is ridiculously late. She should be awake from 3pm till bedtime, which for most would be 7ish.

What a strange time routine. Second nap is way too late and the whole day needs bringing forwards an hour or two.

You just need to switch from 2 naps, with 3 hour periods of waking, to 1 nap with 4 hour periods of waking.

You could move her to waking earlier, say 7am, and going to bed earlier. Or if you like the 9am wake ups, it would look like:

9am: up
1pm: nap
4pm: up
8pm: bed

I also breastfeed and cosleep/cuddle to sleep. You don't need to change that. It's just that, when they drop a nap, they go through a phase when their natural period of wakefulness between sleeps doesn't easily fit into a day. Your choice is to let them stay up half the night, or push them to stay awake a little longer than they would choose to between sleeps. In a couple of weeks she will have grown into needing that extra awake time anyway.

Her longest stretch of awake time needs to be before bed which she isn't having, well she's falling asleep within that time frame.
It's not leaving anytime for you op and your DP.
I would do afternoon nap between 15:00/16:00 and cap it so she's in bed earlier and actually ready for bed.
You'll find her later mornings will probably disappear but I think you'll find yourself in a better routine with it and not fighting to get her to sleep on a nighttime, and ofc some time to yourself back because by the sounds of it you have none and need it

The problem is putting your 11 month old to bed at 11pm.
Even with sleeping until 9 that's not enough night sleep, most have about 12 hours overnight at this age and then about 2-3 hours during the day. Maybe

Sorry but that routine is a bit nuts! Waking from second nap at 7-8pm??!

She should be awake from 4pm at the latest for any hope of a peaceful bedtime.

You need to restructure her day.

Agree with PP - it's the routine that's the issue and she's having a lot of daytime sleep. My 10mo and has 2-3 hours sleep over 2 naps, a 7.30pm bedtime and usually wakes around 6.30am. I'd try and shift it forward - you could still have a late start of 8am but an 8pm bedtime.

Sorry misread your sleep totals, daytime sleep total is fine, it's just the timing that's out.

Agree with PP. Too much daytime sleep too late in the day. Decide what time is a reasonable wake up time for you (as early as possible IMO) and start getting her up then. Put her to bed 12-13h or so after that with 2 naps in between. I knew our naps couldn’t go over 2.5h, but your DD may be able to have 3h without it affecting night sleep.

At 11 mo we had
Wake 6:30
Breakfast 7:30
Nap 9:30-10:30
Lunch 12:00
Nap 13:45-15:15ish
Snack 15:30
Tea 17:30
Bedtime 19:30

Thanks everyone. I've let her sleep when she wanted since she was born and fitted around her pattern as I work from home and can adapt. I thought I would trust she knows when she needs to sleep and how much but I guess I was wrong and she needs more structure.

I'll start the day earlier and put her to bed earlier, will work towards this gradually. I'll probably have to transition to one nap at some point soon but I think she needs the two naps for now.

Thanks again!

You need to ditch the second nap. I always religiously woke mine at 3.30pm and never let them go back to sleep afterwards.

Get her up at 7am, nap about 11am for a couple of hours and bedtime at 7pm.

My DS didnt go to 1 nap until he was about 15mo, he defo wasnt ready before.

I used to make sure he woke from his 2nd nap no later than 3 for a 7pm bedtime.

Yeah I think she's fine to still have two naps just times need adjusted.

No matter what you do with the naps op, aim to having her awake from approx 4pm and final bed time by 7/7.30pm. You can try and back time everything from that.
Good luck