Bedtime - what am I doing wrong?

[LettucesAndRoses]

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping some of you might be able to give me some ideas to work through issues getting my DD to sleep at night. She's 11 months now and apart from a few weeks of okay sleep before 5 months, she's been taking around 2 hours to go to sleep at night and waking multiple times (every 2 hours or so). She's breastfed.

She's always been a late sleeper, she usually wakes up around 9 or 9.30 in the morning, naps 3 hours later for 1.5 to 2 hours then again 3 hours later for 1 to 1.5 hours. She's awake after her second nap anywhere between 7 and 8 so her bedtime is 3 hours after that, when she shows signs she's tired.
After her last nap, we play a bit then she sits in her chair while I finish making dinner, then we eat together, have a bath, do a little baby massage and read books with a small light on. I breastfeed her then hold her and walk around singing for a while. And then she turns into a monster! She's super agitated, pushes me away but cries if I put her down, tries to run and jump etc. She keeps going until she can't fight sleep anymore. I keep offering comfort, breast, cuddles, stroking... The process took 2 hours again tonight and I feel I must be doing something wrong. Can you see an obvious problem with our routine?

I have no intention to sleep train, before anyone suggests it. I'm just wondering if I'm completely missing something or if it's just the way she is.

Thanks in advance to whoever took the time to read my loooong post!

I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet about melatonin and its relationship with sunlight? I’m sure a more technical person can explain better, but essentially sunlight during the day helps melatonin production, which is required for sleep. If she’s waking from her last nap after sunset, then she isn’t getting any sunlight before bedtime. There are other factors of course, (sun isn’t a magic sleep solution) but I just thought that knowing that might help your resolve with moving her schedule earlier.

Also, ignore the comments about self-soothing/not rocking/feeding her to sleep. If it works for you, there’s no need to change.

@CanIPleaseHaveOne

Crikey she is going to bed very late! It would be much easier on both of you if you start her bedtime routine much earlier, and have her in bed for the night by 7.30/8pm.

You could try stretching her morning nap to nearer to midday, and have it last longer. Drop the evening nap.

Did someone advise this routine you have now op?

My DD slept midnight till noon which suited us absolutely fine. I could not sleep at 7pm and neither could she. She’s now a perfectly healthy, scarily bright almost-11 year old who eats late and sleeps late but manages to do all the things she wants/needs to.

It’s a very “British” thing to want kids in bed early (Victorian throwback). It doesn’t necessarily benefit them in any way. Enough good quality sleep is the important thing. We owls don’t have to conform to the societal expectations of larks.

@Williams3001

I don’t think anyone has mentioned yet about melatonin and its relationship with sunlight? I’m sure a more technical person can explain better, but essentially sunlight during the day helps melatonin production, which is required for sleep. If she’s waking from her last nap after sunset, then she isn’t getting any sunlight before bedtime. There are other factors of course, (sun isn’t a magic sleep solution) but I just thought that knowing that might help your resolve with moving her schedule earlier.

This can be the case, but as with everything, there are exceptions.

Most musicians/writers/artists are owls. (My dad was one of these.) Don’t fix what isn’t broken.

^ it is broken for the OP though, hence the thread.

Only the length of time it’s taking to get baby to sleep. An earlier routine may not fix that. And it comes with earlier wakes that OP might not want.

Definitely wake her up earlier in the morning - it sounds like you’ve got a fairly good schedule going, but you’re around two hours behind most people if not more. Wake her up by 7.30 at least - it will do no harm, if you had to get to work and take her to nursery or childminder you’d have no choice - hopefully she’ll adapt after a couple of days so you don’t need to keep her up so late and you can leave longer between the last nap and going to bed. I second no sleeping after 3.30/4.00.

And it comes with earlier wakes that OP might not want.

That’s fair enough but then there can be no complaining that DD isn’t going to sleep - of course she isn’t if she’s only woken up from a late nap a few hours before and the late naps are due to waking late in the morning. I’m which case a later bed time it must be, she’s just not tired 🤷‍♀️ But I didn’t get the impression the OP was after that either.

[quote Rosesareyellow]Definitely wake her up earlier in the morning - it sounds like you’ve got a fairly good schedule going, but you’re around two hours behind most people if not more. Wake her up by 7.30 at least - it will do no harm, if you had to get to work and take her to nursery or childminder you’d have no choice - hopefully she’ll adapt after a couple of days so you don’t need to keep her up so late and you can leave longer between the last nap and going to bed. I second no sleeping after 3.30/4.00.[/quote]
Why assume everyone works 9-5?!

@NavigatingAdolescence

That’s an interesting interpretation of what I actually said - I don’t work 9 to 5 myself but ok 🤷‍♀️

I’d do:

Wake at 7
Nap at 10-11
Nap at 2-3
Bed at 7

My 2.5 year old and 5 month old are both fast asleep by 7 every night. They’re absolute terrors without enough sleep.

@Sexnotgender

I’d do:

Wake at 7
Nap at 10-11
Nap at 2-3
Bed at 7

My 2.5 year old and 5 month old are both fast asleep by 7 every night. They’re absolute terrors without enough sleep.

They’d still get the same amount of sleep if you shifted all those times by 2 hours. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The multiple two hour waking only ever stopped for me when I stopped bf. Felt so so much better after that tbh. There seems to be an awful lot going on very late at night with songs, walking about, massage, stroking, books.
Our routine consisted of bath, bottle, quick story and bed, door pulled to. Half an hour max. No fussing, no faffing and we all slept well.
This was 18 years ago now mind so appreciate trends have changed.

They’d still get the same amount of sleep if you shifted all those times by 2 hours. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Doesn’t work like that. They get up at 7 regardless of when they go to bed.

Bedtime is too late. Strictly dinner, bath, bed by 6.30/7pm with ours once they were eating well. Worked for them all, working for grandchild too (mum and dad’s schedule, not mine 😁).

Daytime naps need to be shorter.

@Sexnotgender

They’d still get the same amount of sleep if you shifted all those times by 2 hours. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Doesn’t work like that. They get up at 7 regardless of when they go to bed.

Mine didn’t. OP’s doesn’t.

@MrsSkylerWhite

Bedtime is too late. Strictly dinner, bath, bed by 6.30/7pm with ours once they were eating well. Worked for them all, working for grandchild too (mum and dad’s schedule, not mine 😁).

Daytime naps need to be shorter.

No evening socialising?

Today 20:48 NavigatingAdolescence

MrsSkylerWhite
Bedtime is too late. Strictly dinner, bath, bed by 6.30/7pm with ours once they were eating well. Worked for them all, working for grandchild too (mum and dad’s schedule, not mine 😁).

Daytime naps need to be shorter.
No evening socialising?

Yes, at dinner and bath time.

Mine didn’t. OP’s doesn’t.

Cool… was talking about my children.

I meant with other people. Dinners out, visits etc.

Sorry - that was to Skyler

@Sexnotgender

Mine didn’t. OP’s doesn’t.

Cool… was talking about my children.

Kinda renders your “advice” a bit irrelevant, no?

@NavigatingAdolescence Her dad and Grandad are night owls and I'm convinced that it's genetic. As I've followed her natural pattern so far, I'm inclined to think she is too but it's probably too early to tell.
Also agree that bedtime is cultural. I'm French and we eat later and put babies to bed later (although not as late as mine goes to bed!)

The main issue I'm trying to fix is the time it takes to put her to sleep. If doing things earlier in the day can help then it's worth a try, she might need more structure. It ends up being a stressful time for both of us and it's not the way it should be.
The waking up at night is probably more linked to her age and breastfeeding, I'll be patient on that one.

I've been trying different things over the past few days and so far, I found that she falls asleep 4.5 hours after waking up from her last nap, regardless of how tired she acts before. I've probably been trying to put her to sleep too early, interpreting her fussiness in the wrong way and expecting her awake window to be the same as earlier in the day (3 hours).

I had planned a new schedule carefully yesterday, with shorter naps and she had a very short nap this morning and refused to nap this afternoon by herself.
Goes to show that baby is always the one in charge