If people believe that new parenting techniques like naughty steps, no smacking, treat them as you would an adult (or there abouts) how come more of todays children are growing up to be so out of control, violent, rude, disrespectful etc etc???

[QueenofVenus]

It seems to me that the older generations child rearing techniques were more sensible, i think society will always have its little outlaws, but in comparison, older generations kids had more about them then ours!????

"The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers."

Anyone know the source and year?

LOL UQD 'gobble up dainties'.

I'm guessing its not from this weeks Daily Mail.

I think young people have been demonised so much in the media. I don't really believe that they are necessarily not as well-behaved or are more prone to being violent, rude and disrespectful.

I do think though that it is a shame that there isn't the same sense that any adult could step in and criticise or chastise i.e. all the threads about people being scared to tell another person's child off for whacking their own or misbehaving, or people angry that someone else told their child off. I think that has the result that if there is a lack of respect and courtesy it is because children only expect to be held accountable by their own parents rather than by society and adults in general.

An example: was in ikea at the weekend. A 10ish year old boy was storming around the lighting section, knocked a display and they put a lampshade on his head while tearing around. A staff member (yes! I actually saw a member of staff in Ikea. Break out the champagne) said "hey hey hey, put that back" in a non=aggressive but authoritative way, and was verbally abused by the boy's father for "having a go" at his son. The son watched, smiling, and while great, he's certain that his parents will stand up for him, not so great that it was the staff member criticised rather than him.

Hey ho.

Socrates, somewhere around 420 BC (although some attribute it to Plato )

pooka, that is exactly the sort of thing I am thinking of. That has changed, I think.

Not sure that children are generally any worse but society cannot step in to stop them when they are behaving badly - and by society I mean teachers, other parents, other people generally

read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn. I think he would say that measures like the naughty step are part of the problem and not the solution.

Yes pooka, thats an example of parents behaving badly.

I think children need to learn to modify their behaviour according to the situation. my DS soon learnt that there were things he couldn't do at school that he can do at home (mainly tearing around like a whirlwind), the teachers reprimanded his behaviour, he accepted that and all is well.

I was listening to The Book Panel podcast with Simon Mayo, and there was an interview with an author I found really interesting.

Apparently he had a criminal record at a young age, but he said that retrospectively, all it would have taken at the start was someone taking him to one side and genuinely being interested in what was going on in his life RATHER than just threatening him with punishment after punishment (police, courts, etc). The point being that there were REASONS he was acting like that, issues in what was happening at home which could have been dealt with.

He also said, that he didn't see teenagers being scary, he saw teenagers being scared. And when scared they puff up to make themselves look bigger, just like an animal. To make themselves look scary.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this... but I did find it interesting, and I think it's relevant "to the youth of today".

I think there's a lot of truth in that RubberDuck.

imo the important thing for children is too know they are loved and valued and listened too. They need boundaries and discipline is required to maintain them. A childs testing of those boundaries (and parental patience) is all part of their growing up and learning how to relate to the world.

I agree wholeheartedly that today's 'troubled youth' are a product of absent parents, and a lack of any boundaries or care. The spoiling of children with gifts and toys in place of attention and time is also very problematic.

My son is 3 so I have teenage rebellion etc. to look forward too. But I hope I will have a similar attitude to my parents - that I will respect and trust my children, having instilled in them enough self-respect and common sense too make good choices.[fingers crossed emoticon].

But hey what do I know!

Want this on my 'threads I'm on but no time to contribute now.

It should not be forgotten that it's an awful lot easier for children to get into trouble these days than it was. Modern signs of "being out of control" that were regarded as perfectly normal behaviour in my day include:

teenagers hanging around on street corners engaged in conversation

children playing football on the pavement outside their houses (on a street with no cars)

children being seen out-of-doors without their parents after dark (which may be as early as 4 in the afternoon at this time of year)

teenagers spending their evenings in aimless chatter rather than meaningless activities(thankfully, middle-aged mums are still allowed to do a bit of aimless gossip)

schoolboys having a scuffle (seen as violence these days- as normal behaviour 30 yrs ago)

For my children's school you might add:

playing on playground equipment during the lunchbreak (only allowed when it is the assigned time for your class+ supervised by the correct assigned teacher)

sitting down on the ground during play

climbing trees

telling the Offsted inspector that you do not enjoy a subject (this one came up recently)

having a medical condition that affects the school attendance record (this is seen as a discipline problem, regardless of how many doctor's letters you produce)

And I may add that my children do not attend some oldfashioned blood-and-thunder academy, but the local council school. When I was at school 30 years ago, I was able to point out obvious mistakes to my teacher- e.g. if the date in the history book was wrong or an innocent pupil had been accused of a misdemeanour My dd is so cowed by the no-talking-back attitude of her school that she thought it unthinkable to say anything when one of her friends had an accident in PE and was quite wrongfully accused of having caused it- the poor girl was not only in a lot of pain, but had the whole school told in assembly that she had been careless and had only herself to blame. My dd saw the whole thing and knew this was unfair, but let it happen, because in her view explaining the situation would mean being disrespectful to an adult. This worries me- how will she be able to protest against injustice later in life?
When her weekly spellings were wrong (the teacher who did them was not very good), my dd would deliberately memorise the incorrect spelling, because the children at her school are taught to believe that correcting a teacher is disrespectful. I am glad I went to school when nobody had this panicky fear of disrespect- my teachers were confident enough to let us express ourselves without instantly fearing they'd lose control.

I think often the older generatins worked because children obeyed out of fear. It might of worked but is it the right way to raise your kids?

Message withdrawn

I really liked your post, Cory.
I dont' recognise this world where teenagers are supposed to be so out of control compared to the past. I do know that just by being an "older" mum i am naturaly more out of touch with how teens work and think, though.
I was out with a friend who does drama workshops in schools all over England for a living. We entered a playground in a small village with our combined 7 children under 10... 3 teenagers were there (littering, smoking). I was immediately hostile but friend went straight up and started chatting. Within minutes, in spite of litter and smoke -- he made those teens human for me. I felt really ashamed that I had dismissed them so instantly; I was probably a lot like them myself at the same age.

hmmm. yes of course making children do things out of fear must be better.

I also agree the media have demonized kids today. Also just because these techniques ie naughty step are common knowledge does necc mean majorty of people are using them. They are lots of childrearing techniques used today.

There's certainly a long, long history of people huffing and puffing about youthful misbehaviour, and I think a percentage of the problem today is simply mass communication and mass media: a century or so back people had very little idea of what was going on in the next village or so, let alone at the other end of the country with regard to ordinary lives (as opposed to the aristocracy or the particularly notorious).

About the only thing that's really changed, which bugs some people but is actually a Good Thing, is that people are no longer automatically deferred to if they are rich, or white, or male by people who are not - the concept of respecting your 'betters' ie those richer or whiter or maler than you (no matter what they did) has gone.

i agree with op

children are much more likely to be born into families of either one or two siblings now - they are turning into little lords and ladies, the equalivent of china's little princes.

maybe

speak for yourself.
personally, im improving on the job my parents did, and they did on theirs. i reckon was always thus.

I disagree, it is widely known. We dont know if widely used. Often when shopping in town I hear some parent screaming swear words at they toddler, I doubt they are using it or using it in the right way

any everything is discected now