Dealing with 5yo ungrateful screaming fit

[nomorespaghetti]

My 5.5 year old DD has just gone into year 1. For context she is profoundly deaf and uses cochlear implants, she is doing really well with them and has lots of support at school and at home. She’s very bright, meeting expectations in all areas, popular, happy and confident. She has to concentrate very hard to listen with her cochlear implants, much much more than a hearing child would need to concentrate, so she struggles a lot with concentration fatigue and she does get really tired. Especially at the moment having just gone back to school.

She is prone to huge dramatic crying fits and emotional outbursts. Partially I think this is due to her age and her personality, partially due to the extreme tiredness she constantly feels. It can be really hard to deal with. Triggers include being asked to do things she doesn’t want to do (brushing teeth), not winning at something, or not being able to do something right away, or feeling like someone else has something she hasn’t.

I’m after opinions of how others would deal with such behaviour. E.g. yesterday - we went to an NT property and they had a little find and seek trail. At the shop there was a little stand of cheap toys, and I said if she and DS (3) did the trail then they could each choose a toy at the end. They did it, and each chose a toy. DD got a yo-yo, but when she realised she couldn’t immediately master it she got very annoyed. Shouting at me - “I don’t want this toy, it’s rubbish, I want DS’s one, I want a different one, it’s not fair, I don’t want this toy, I got NOTHING, DS got something and I got NOTHING because I don’t want this one, mummy get me a different one” etc etc.

This was after a day of her getting annoyed because her little brother got a pair of wellies in the post and she got nothing (his had a hole in, and she’s got 3 new bloody pairs of shoes at the shop the week before!), and getting very annoyed when she wasn’t “the best” at walking on balance beams during our walk (we really try to discourage competitiveness, and talk instead about being determined and persevering and trying your best). So I was a bit frayed. I wanted to go and chuck her in the Koi pond if I’m honest.

My response - I of course didn’t get her another toy, and I didn’t make her little brother share his. I tried to stay calm, and I tried to acknowledge her feelings (“You’re so angry because you decided you don’t want that toy any more. You were looking forward to getting the toy and you’re disappointed that it’s not what you thought it would be. You’re so upset now”). I offered to show her how to use the yo-yo. I told her I didn’t like people yelling at me, and I don’t like it when children are ungrateful. We walked to the car with her yelling at me, she got in and eventually calmed down when I didn’t rise to it. I didn’t shout although I fucking felt like it!

If I’d have talked like that to my parents as a child I’d definitely have been shouted at. I was shouted at and shamed a lot as a child, and I don’t think it’s done me much good as an adult to be honest, so I try to avoid it. I know my parents were doing what they thought was right. I know being ungrateful and emotional is an occupational hazard of being 5 years old. But I was wondering what the other people at the NT must have been thinking about DD screaming at me and me not disciplining her or making her stop.

Thanks if you’ve got this far!

Would I help if I told you that her behaviour sounds pretty normal (if not desirable) and it sounds like you are doing fine?

I wouldnt worry too much about what other people think. If you do think that a particular tantrum has gone too far - or there have been too many of them then you could try curtailing the day or going back to the car for a time out (they go in the car and scream, you stand outside and look like you've got all day).

This too will pass.

I think you sound like a lovely mum and your DD sounds like a very driven, hardworking over-tired little girl. Cut yourself and her some slack OP, you're doing great. Shouting would not have helped but you did the right thing and didn't give in. Who gives a shit what some strangers might have thought?

Sounds like you handled it perfectly.

Do not give any time to what the other people thought. They can mind their own business.

Oh god, you remind me I once had to buy dd a different toy at a NT shop when santa gave her a wooden toy she couldn't do and her younger sister got a lovely soft toy.

She didn't yell at me because it was Santa's fault. But I was probably too soft. 5 year old emotions are intense. She was probably expressing her sadness.
My dd once told me she hated a birthday gift and I went mad at her which I regret. It sounds like you did well!
My dd is not deaf, but suspected ADHD and issues with concentration.

They grow out of it.

If I'd have seen you with a tantruming child my only thoughts would have been of sympathy.

If I'd been able get the gist of what was going on, I'd have thought well done that mum.

She's presumably just had a week of school, new class, new expectations, new teacher? Because of her hearing problem she will have had to adjust to all that too and concentrate harder than the rest, like you said.

Maybe she's feeling frustrated and challenged by all that and the lid blew off yesterday in particular. Safety valve sort of thing. She's only five.

Sounds like you handled it well and most other people can think what they like, really. I don't think she'll understand the concept of gratitude yet, though, at least not in the way you expect. They live in the moment at that age so new shoes last week are a bit irrelevant (to her, not you!).

As she gets a bit older, she'll learn to manage her feelings better.

We’ve all been there, had I witnessed this I would be inwardly cringing at memories of my own children doing something similar!

The other thing would be the realization that it had been x months/years since they’d done it!

My DD can be a bit like this, but no siblings so less trigger points.

I do a bit of soothing because I allow the feelings but not any bad behaviour iyswim. So I say oh you're disappointed, poor you, you didn't like your toy etc etc. But like you I wouldn't get her another or let her swap with a sibling or whatever, or if there was any meanness or lashing out I'd remove her from company and take home or whatever.

The lack of gratitude really gets to me too, I had so little growing up and she is very lucky. But in the moment of the meltdown she can't take that on board. So when things are calmer I talk about how lucky she is and how much she is given and has etc.

I won't find out if this is a good strategy until she's older I guess. But mainly I want to have a good relationship with her and being shouted at and shamed for expressing the wrong emotions doesn't feel like the way to go to me.

Oh and for the record, my son, who has asd, once had a massive tantrum in the middle of a NT tearoom aged 6 because I wouldn't buy him another ice cream. Very embarrassing for me at the time.
You just have to grit your teeth sometimes!

I think you handled it well and that in fact you understand perfectly that your DD is very tired and at her limit because dealing with "ordinary" situations requires extra ordinary focus for her. You know that's why she tantrums. You're just frazzled (which is natural as parenting a child with extra challenges is also extra challenging and you are also more tired and closer to your limits than if your similarly parented child didn't have extra challenges).

The only thing I'd say is avoid the focus on her being "ungrateful". At that moment she wasn't feeling grateful for a toy she couldn't operate, and that's okay. It was her choice but she was feeling regret for a poor choice, and lashed out instead of dissolving into tears of disappointment, which was the only other likely outcome given how tired she was after focussing on the tasks involved in the day, with background noise, and being only five herself.

I agree absolutely that you shouldn't make her brother share - it's hardly his fault! However it was easier for him to be grateful, given his toy pleased him and the day was probably easier for him - from her point of view he was rewarded and she was disappointed. Five is much too young to expect genuine gratitude for something you've worked hard for but which you don't want. You wouldn't want her to have to also effectively tell you lies to placate you at this age!

I think the right move is to ignore the tantrum and come back to the yo-yo later at a calm time, and teach her to use it - at that point you'll see the gratitude, not when she's tired, over stimulated, and disappointed.

If I saw you at the NT talking calmly to a wigging-out 5yo (I have one of these too) my only thought would have been to send sympathetic mum-vibes your way & stop my own kids gawping.

You're doing great, with additional circumstances that many if us will never have to deal with. Although as PP said, I think those you listed are quite typical triggers for any 5yo!

Don't give anyone else's opinion a second thought.

As someone that suffers with mental fatigue you probably need to build in far far far more downtime for her.

Some evenings even watching TV and following a plot is just too much effort. It has made me more emotional and I wish I could have a tantrum or somehow let all the built tiredness and emotions out.

As others have said her behaviour isn't that unusual for her age especially at the start or end of a term.

As a Mum of a DS who is 4.5 with cochlear implants, I also sometimes find they can be blimmin' noisy when they have tantrums/outbursts - far noisier than my friends children who aren't deaf. Sending solidarity, FWIW, I agree with everyone else, I think it's pretty normal and you sound like a lovely Mum.

You sound like you are dealing with things perfectly...I really wouldn't worry about others there and what they think... you can be sure their little angels throw plenty of tantrums and I doubt many would deal with them as calmly as you

They all do it. Well, not all, but you know what I mean! My kids didn't do it but my dgc certainly do! I don't know why. Maybe it's the food, additives, lack of discipline?

A grateful five year old would be a remarkable thing! Or teen. Or twenties! I'm inclined to think it is one of the last things we achieve in life!

But I was wondering what the other people at the NT must have been thinking about DD screaming at me and me not disciplining her or making her stop

Honestly, I fret all the time about this, I have a 2yo who very much enjoys a good public display of emotion, but in reality nobody cares enough to even look twice. It must just sound like white noise to anyone with young children 🤣 you sound like you handled it really well

My DD sometimes has exactly the same sort of meltdown and I’d have handled it pretty much as you did (on a good day! )

I may lose my temper if I’ve dealt with a lot of the same behaviour in one day (and say I’m tired etc) but I don’t think the default should be to be ‘tough’ on this kind of behaviour. They’re telling us they’re overwhelmed. My DD is finding the transition to year 1 really, really tough.

Sending

But I was wondering what the other people at the NT must have been thinking about DD screaming at me and me not disciplining her or making her stop

Obviously I meant this to be in bold 😒

@Dillydollydingdong that’s not terribly helpful, is it?

It sounds like you handled it really well- better than a lot of people would.
This stage will pass!

I think you handled it perfectly.

Sounds like you handled it really well. Kudos to your patience.

There's a hymn I always think of (and I don't know that it's original context was about children, but it certainly fits):

Love is patient
Love is kind
Always understanding
Time after time.

Mine are teens now, but my DS1 was young in his school year and dyslexic (we didn't know at the time) and found the concentration required in those first couple of primary years absolutely exhausting.

My dd 7 has ASD and has epic meltdowns.

If I can I give her choices in a meltdown. Do you want to have no toy or keep this one and we can watch YouTube to master it later? Do you want to walk and balance nicely to do you want to get off and walk next to me.
It's your choice. You choose.
But your options given are closed. So you do this now or later but your bloody doing it.
Or natural consequences.
Its draining and involves mental gymnastics to come up with these options.
But she sounds overwhelmed when tired. But maybe a bit stubborn ( in the nicest possible way because my dd works herself up into backing herself into a corner that she can apologise gracefully from - she is 7 afterall).
So this gives them so feeling of control in a scary world

You did really well handling this and not throwing her in the pond She will learn from this and the next frustration may be shorter. I used to put my hand up when mine were a bit older and say ‘enough, I am not listening now’ if the protesting continued 😁