Dealing with 5yo ungrateful screaming fit

[nomorespaghetti]

My 5.5 year old DD has just gone into year 1. For context she is profoundly deaf and uses cochlear implants, she is doing really well with them and has lots of support at school and at home. She’s very bright, meeting expectations in all areas, popular, happy and confident. She has to concentrate very hard to listen with her cochlear implants, much much more than a hearing child would need to concentrate, so she struggles a lot with concentration fatigue and she does get really tired. Especially at the moment having just gone back to school.

She is prone to huge dramatic crying fits and emotional outbursts. Partially I think this is due to her age and her personality, partially due to the extreme tiredness she constantly feels. It can be really hard to deal with. Triggers include being asked to do things she doesn’t want to do (brushing teeth), not winning at something, or not being able to do something right away, or feeling like someone else has something she hasn’t.

I’m after opinions of how others would deal with such behaviour. E.g. yesterday - we went to an NT property and they had a little find and seek trail. At the shop there was a little stand of cheap toys, and I said if she and DS (3) did the trail then they could each choose a toy at the end. They did it, and each chose a toy. DD got a yo-yo, but when she realised she couldn’t immediately master it she got very annoyed. Shouting at me - “I don’t want this toy, it’s rubbish, I want DS’s one, I want a different one, it’s not fair, I don’t want this toy, I got NOTHING, DS got something and I got NOTHING because I don’t want this one, mummy get me a different one” etc etc.

This was after a day of her getting annoyed because her little brother got a pair of wellies in the post and she got nothing (his had a hole in, and she’s got 3 new bloody pairs of shoes at the shop the week before!), and getting very annoyed when she wasn’t “the best” at walking on balance beams during our walk (we really try to discourage competitiveness, and talk instead about being determined and persevering and trying your best). So I was a bit frayed. I wanted to go and chuck her in the Koi pond if I’m honest.

My response - I of course didn’t get her another toy, and I didn’t make her little brother share his. I tried to stay calm, and I tried to acknowledge her feelings (“You’re so angry because you decided you don’t want that toy any more. You were looking forward to getting the toy and you’re disappointed that it’s not what you thought it would be. You’re so upset now”). I offered to show her how to use the yo-yo. I told her I didn’t like people yelling at me, and I don’t like it when children are ungrateful. We walked to the car with her yelling at me, she got in and eventually calmed down when I didn’t rise to it. I didn’t shout although I fucking felt like it!

If I’d have talked like that to my parents as a child I’d definitely have been shouted at. I was shouted at and shamed a lot as a child, and I don’t think it’s done me much good as an adult to be honest, so I try to avoid it. I know my parents were doing what they thought was right. I know being ungrateful and emotional is an occupational hazard of being 5 years old. But I was wondering what the other people at the NT must have been thinking about DD screaming at me and me not disciplining her or making her stop.

Thanks if you’ve got this far!

In all honesty I think the flavour of gratitude hoped for here is far, far too subtle for a five year old or a much older child.

She was expected to be grateful for something really very abstract and relative; for her comparatively privileged place in the world - a devoted, loving mother, a financially fairly comfortable life. She was also expected to be grateful for things she didn't at that moment want - an activity she had to be bribed to do, and a toy which she couldn't use.

Of course objectively she had things to be grateful for in a holistic sense, but in the moment she was an overtired 5 year old who'd done as she was asked and been given a disappointing toy, while her brother had done the same and been given a pleasing toy. Hard to be grateful for that, in her position, unless she had an ability to see and recognise how fortunate her place in the world relative to poorer/ less loved children was in that specific moment, despite being at her mental limit and only five

There are of course loads of other children who wouldn't tantrum, but not because they'd be grateful but either because they are easily distracted/ have so much stuff/ attach little importance to toys so they could instantly forget the disappointment, or because they are people pleasers who either by nature or training don't want to upset their parent, or are afraid of the consequences of complaining or tantruming. Or they'd be sad instead of tantruming and it'd come out, then or later, with or without a parent to comfort them, as sad tears or "moping".

Actually my children didn't tantrum much - they tended to get disproportionately but quietly sad and it'd all come out at bedtime. Its not necessarily better - actually it makes you feel enormous guilt as a parent when your well intentioned actions make your child sad and they wait hours to tell you - which is almost worse in a way.

Anyway the children who don't throw a wobbly aren't any more grateful in these situations than those who do! The type of gratitude which some adults might feel in a comparable situation is far to diffuse and complex!

You sound like you did well. I would have done the same although I would have probably snapped eventually. It is so fucking hard. Especially in public.

I'd have thought you were great for not losing your temper and joining in with the tantrum.

I remember an EPIC tantrum that involved one of mine jumping up and down angrily in the middle of a small town where I knew loads of people . Now a family tale we all remember fondly.

I agree with many others, it sounds like pretty standard five year old plus behaviour. Unless you are lucky enough to have a very good child.

Sounds standard for her age and she sounds like she’s struggling to deal with her emotions which isn’t unusual.

With my children youngest has sen, we talk a lot about expectations. So before a trip out I’ll lay out what I expect behaviour wise and (if I’ll buy them something etc sometimes they have their own money) I do research prior as I like to know what there is for youngest so I can prep him, so with that behaviour I’d have just gone back to the car (depending if there is 2 of you one stay with little one and carry on) other go back to car/time out and reminder of expectations and then home. Every single time, the next time we went out I would think twice re shop etc. I’m constantly thinking ahead of what he may do and how i will react as he can be incredibly trying at times. I don’t want caught on the hop thinking of bow to deal with it. It’s quite exhausting.

He is exhausted at times too, so lots of down time, quiet reading or whatever at start of school and I think you sound like you explain feelings etc very well to her. Sometimes though less is more, I’d do that after my son calms/gets home as he wouldn’t listen/take it in In the moment as he’s too fired up/upset/angry. We then talk about how we could make the situation better for next time & how him behaving like that makes him feel. The competitiveness is something different and she sounds like a feisty little person, I’m sure it’ll settle down but that drive isn’t a bad thing just needs directed in the right way as you are doing.

I understand how easy it is for a small child to be overwhelmed by their emotions and have to let it all out. Learning to control our feelings, especially anger, frustration and disappointment, is extremely hard - and, let's be honest, many adults haven't mastered the skill! It sounds like you handled the situation perfectly.

A bit scared to put my head above the parapet but, in what way do you feel your DP harmed you in calling out bad behaviour?
My DC are young adults but I would have told them to stop behaving in such an entitled manner had they behaved as your DD did at 5yo. However, before I'm accused of being unhelpful, I do not think this should apply to your DD in the circumstances of her hearing difficulties and taking into account what a stressful week she has had.
You seemed to handle yesterday's trip perfectly, remaining calm and consistent.

No advice but just to say I honestly don't give other people's children a second thought when they're screaming/having a tantrum. It barely even registers! Please don't worry about that.

I agree, I think you handled it perfectly and most mothers would NOT be thinking anything other than ‘thank lord it’s not mine this time!’

Pp's have given excellent advice, I agree.
You're doing great, bathing your child in shame is rubbish as you know. You have her a safe place to let her (understandable) enjoying run through and naturally expire. With mine when all is calm and lovely later I might have a little reflective chat about how it was understandable, and why it was fair that you didn't replace it. And how she can learn to use it etc to help her put the situation in context without all those powerful emptiness swilling about.
Her motive wasn't intentional lack of gratitude, it was genuine and honest and over whelming for her so you did the right thing not throwing her in the pond and riding it out, acknowledging where she was in that moment without caving in.
Star mum award from me.

Gave her a safe place to let her emotions run through. 🙄

It sounds like standard enough behaviour, but tbh I'd have talked her out of getting a yo-yo specifically because a 5 year old won't know how to use it straight away and will be frustrated, I'd have told her that and told her to pick something else, avoiding that inevitable meltdown.

Other than that how you handled it sounds fine, I think it's fine to mention being ungrateful too, many children these days (I sound ancient, I'm 35!) have no idea how lucky they are in terms of financial comfort and instant gratification, education on it and reminders are important imo.

@Dillydollydingdong

They all do it. Well, not all, but you know what I mean! My kids didn't do it but my dgc certainly do! I don't know why. Maybe it's the food, additives, lack of discipline?

I’m glad your children were so wonderful - you were obviously the perfect mother. When a child has a disability, these scenarios are more likely as l know from experience with an adult autistic son.

I think my words of advice, @nomorespaghetti, would be to make sure your daughter has plenty of sleep and perhaps not to do too much at weekends while she is getting used to being back at school and the extra concentration that year 1 brings, compared with reception. Otherwise, I think you handled things very well.

.. you handled it really well! 💐💐

Thank you very much for the kind comments you lovely people are making me feel a lot better. We’ve had a day with a great deal fewer emotional outbursts today after a very good night’s sleep for DD last night.

I think it’s just so hard to watch your otherwise lovely child acting like an entitled rotter, it makes you question everything you’ve done! But I do realise it’s pretty standard 5 year old behaviour, and I can’t expect her to act as an adult or even as an older child would. And yes I agree a yo-yo was a poor choice! DH was supervising the gift shop purchases while I was in the loo. I think he thought she’d be able to do it easily. He found out later that he couldn’t do it either! Apparently I am the only master of the yo-yo in our house.

Just to add - we weren’t bribing them to do the trail, they’d very happily agreed to do it before we mentioned any toys. It was a spur of the moment decision when I saw a rack of little cheap toys… I don’t usually get things from gift shops for them as they are invariably disappointing!

LocalHobo asked how I felt my parents harmed me by calling out behaviour like this. I don’t think harmed is the right word, but during my childhood negative emotions were very frowned upon, and dismissed quickly, including justified upsets. I feel like I’m not great at expressing my emotions healthily now, although I’m working on it. It may not be all due to my upbringing, but I want to try to do things a bit differently with my kids. My parents get very anxious/stressed when my kids get even slightly upset, especially in public (just normal upsets, like scraping knees and having a few tears about it), and I remember that from my own childhood. My dad seems to think that if a child sheds even a single tear that you have to pack them into the car and speed off home! When we were children he was very much into long lectures about how we were ungrateful and spoiled, which may partially be why I got a bit frazzled by DDs behaviour yesterday.

It's sad we feel the need to justify entirely normal behaviour with diagnoses constantly. I have one neurological child and one not. They've both had tantrums, it's okay and doesn't make someone a bad parent.

I hear you OP in terms of finding it hard to express emotions and how much of that might be linked to my parents. I’ve never opened up emotionally to my parents, and I don’t want my own DC to be like that.

I think you handled it perfectly in terms of acknowledging her emotions without either getting cross or relenting to her demands.

And I think children of that age can really struggle to contain their emotions, particularly if they are tired.

And me. @Dillydollydingdong my parents always like to say that I never had any tantrums / meltdowns as a small child
but the reason I was so self contained is that I'd witnessed their mocking and dismissal of my older siblings negative emotions so never thought that it was acceptable to show my feelings.

There's a distance from my parents that we cannot overcome, although they would like to be closer to me.

So that's why I think the OP is ace and so are the vast majority of posters on this thread who are responding with empathy and warmth to their little children.

OP, could you make a yo-yo work as a five yr old? I'm thinking that's more 10+, but could just be me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a child having a go at something too old and failing though. Gives them something to aim for later. Perhaps you could run yo-yo classes

OP you did brilliantly, this is just the kind of response I try to have when my DC (also 5 and just started Y1) has a similar tired emotional outburst! Sadly I fail sometimes and lose my temper but I really try. If I’d seen you and your DD at the NT place I would’ve thought wow she’s keeping her cool so well!

I have similar cringey moments over my DC’s “ungrateful” behaviour, and your description of your DPs could honestly be mine; they too shamed me a lot for my emotions (I think to be fair, I had frequent emotional outbursts) and also hate when my DC now have similar big emotions. It’s why I too strive to be more accepting but I do find it hard sometimes!

Your DD must be shattered bless her. My DC is for sure and he has no hearing impairment.

@SpaceshiptoMars

OP, could you make a yo-yo work as a five yr old? I'm thinking that's more 10+, but could just be me.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a child having a go at something too old and failing though. Gives them something to aim for later. Perhaps you could run yo-yo classes

This is a good point, a yo-yo is a 10+ toy actually.