Front sleeping baby rolling to back

[Msl1980s]

Hi all, my baby has been sleeping on her front since 5 weeks as she had really bad reflux. That's all fine now but now she's 4 and half months old she's learnt to roll from her front to her back but can't get back over in the middle of the night so am having to go into her room to turn her over or help her get to sleep by giving her a dummy (rarely used) or a bit of milk from a bottle.

I've read it's more difficult for tummy sleeps to go from back to front so wondered if any other mum's have experience of this? How long did it take your babies to learn to roll back to the tummy?
I'm trying to teach her in the day time. I'm also starting to put her down on her back for naps but she doesn't sleep very well on her back

Front sleeping is a huge sids risk if your baby isn’t rolling on to her front herself, so I wouldn’t be turning her.

My baby had horrendous reflux too so I know how hard it is, but safe sleep is so important. She will get used to sleeping on her back with practice, and eventually when she learns to roll onto her front herself you can leave her to it.

About 5 weeks of broken sleep, rolling baby back as they couldn’t sleep for more than 20 mins on back (even overnight). Can roll themselves now and will go onto back for a while (longer now reflux is better) but always goes back to their front

@SilverTimpani I am aware of the sids risks and took every precaution when deciding to put my daughter on her front at 5 weeks. I have a nanny breathing alarm which will go off if she stops breathing. Not looking to be reminded of the sids risks as I felt bad enough when deciding to put her on her front but it was a case of her not sleeping and being in pain or sleeping. She won't sleep on her back it doesn't matter how long I leave her there it's not her sleeping position.
Only way I can get her to nap on her bsck is if she falls asleep whilst bottle feeding then putting her on her back but within 20 mins she's wide awake so then her naps are all terrible.

@Rockieroad
Thank you. 5 weeks though eek!

She thinks being on her back is play time, which it is as that's when we chat to her if she's on her back and changing nappy in the day time so as soon as she rolls to her back she just lies there chatting away and laughing to herself... 🙄

I'll keep going with the rolling training in the day time just wondered how long that might take?!

I also would have preferred to follow the safe sleep guidelines but he WOULD NOT sleep on his back. Before the front sleeping he was tucked up next to me co sleeping on his side (I would go to sleep with him on his back but he always seemed to turn). I was equally if not more uncomfortable with this.

Anyway, not what you actually asked me.

Yes to lots of practice during the day. The first time we managed rolling back to front in the day, the nighttime’s got instantly better. I guess you could try leaving them to it at night but I found it much easier/quicker to flip my little pancake back over, more sleep all round that way.

I googled it at the time and some people it was only an issue for a few days. Hard to get too much information on it as most babies are back sleepers to begin in! 5 weeks was a long time and certainly felt never ending at the time. But we got through it

@SilverTimpani please do remember the sids guidelines are exactly that, guidelines. They aren't a legal requirement for you to follow and please understand that many parents will try to follow the guidelines but as every baby is different and has different requirements not all of them will stick to those guidelines. When people point out what you're doing is a sids risk they know what they are doing may not be on the guidelines but you will only be making them feel worse by pointing it out.
Plus if you actually look up the sids risk numbers you'll find they've increased over the years for various reasons and one of them isn't that babies are lying on their front. Babies in the nicu are all put on their front with nanny breathing monitors as it helps their lungs develop and many continue to sleep on their front when they leave the unit.
It's all about safe sleeping which can mean a number of different things 😊

As I said, I had a baby with horrific reflux (sick 30+ times per day, terrible pain, ended up on strong medication) so I do understand how hard it is. But reflux won’t kill them, whereas front sleeping might. That was the calculation I made. And while it was hard, my baby did learn to sleep on his back.

You’ve made a different decision and that’s fine, as you say it’s not a legal requirement, and you’ve clearly taken other precautions to mitigate the risk. But personally I think it’s helpful to always mention safe sleep rules when this subject comes up - if not for your benefit then for the benefit of someone else who comes across this thread, so they have the whole picture.

Plus if you actually look up the sids risk numbers you'll find they've increased over the years for various reasons and one of them isn't that babies are lying on their front.

Meant to address this specifically - SIDS deaths have actually decreased significantly (like more than 80%) in the last 25 years, not increased. The ‘back to sleep’ campaign, which advises babies being placed on their backs to sleep, is credited as a major factor in this decrease. You (or others) can read more about that here: www.lullabytrust.org.uk/the-lullaby-trust-celebrates-25th-anniversary-of-back-to-sleep-campaign/

I agree with @SilverTimpani. SIDS risks have massively decreased since safe sleep guidelines were introduced.

My baby also had reflux but I made the same calculation as @SilverTimpani and persisted with back sleeping.

She was also in NICU and was never put on her front.

@SilverTimpani if you have a search on the lullaby Trust and look at the report from September 2020 unfortunately it states numbers have increased but its for various reasons.
The link to the report you put on was from 2016
www.lullabytrust.org.uk/ons-2020/

@Rockieroad ok lots of daytime training it is then!

@pinkcircustop at the end of the day we all do what we feel is best for our own babies 😊
Whatever works to make babies and mummies happy!

[quote Msl1980s]@SilverTimpani if you have a search on the lullaby Trust and look at the report from September 2020 unfortunately it states numbers have increased but its for various reasons.
The link to the report you put on was from 2016
www.lullabytrust.org.uk/ons-2020/

@Rockieroad ok lots of daytime training it is then![/quote]
Right, but that has nothing to do with the fact that putting babies on their backs to sleep has reduced SIDS by more than 80% since the 90s.

NICU babies may be placed on their tummies but also have much more supervision and monitors. Also, it's recommended to keep your baby in the same room as you for all sleeps until 6 months - again, lowers the risk of SIDS.

You say reflux won't kill a baby well unfortunately my baby sicked up in her sleep and started choking on it on one occasion as she was too small to turn her head. So front sleeping was the safer option!

I never said it was about the back to sleep thing. You put in your post that sids have decreased. I merely pointed out that actually that's not correct unfortunately.

Anyway I'm not here to get into a thing about sids risks as I'm well aware as are loads of parents who put their babies on to their fronts for whatever reason.

I would just like some advise from people who have front sleeping babies so I can help my baby get back to sleeping through the night which she was doing before she could roll onto her back.

@Rockieroad I have gone into her room to roll her back into her front a few times but by that time she spots my face and is wide awake, all smiles and wants to play. Thanks for your messages though. Persevering is key! And a few sleepless nights 😴

I never said it was about the back to sleep thing. You put in your post that sids have decreased. I merely pointed out that actually that's not correct unfortunately.

It absolutely is correct. The back to sleep campaign reduced SIDS by 81% since it began in the 90s. In the last couple of years there has been a slight increase (of 7%), which has been attributed to the pandemic (and specifically the fact that advice on safe sleeping has not been as widely available due to antenatal classes being cancelled and other such reductions in advice and support). However, this recent increase doesn’t in any way change the fact that the back to sleep campaign led to a massive reduction in SIDS deaths - from over 2000 per year to around 217 per year. The slight recent increase does not in any way alter that.

As for your baby choking on vomit - this was a fear of mine too, so I researched it. Babies have an inbuilt defence against choking; they naturally swallow their vomit if they are sick while lying on their backs. There is even evidence that back sleeping reduces the risk of choking on vomit. This is a good article on the subject: safetosleep.nichd.nih.gov/safesleepbasics/mythsfacts

I’m not trying to harangue you about this and I don’t want to keep responding if it will lead to upset, but I’m worried at how much of what you’ve said is based on misinformation or untrue things. Even if you’re totally happy with your choice I want to share the facts here so that others can benefit from them too.

I wonder how many people who criticise decisions that mothers make re safe sleeping, follow the guidelines to the letter themselves, for example... Exclusive breastfeeding, all sleep, including daytime naps, in the same room as the parents, etc etc.....

Sorry OP, i got involved in the debate but didn't respond to your question! All babies usually roll front to back first, before learning to roll back to front, regardless of how they sleep. I think my babies started rolling from back to front about a month or two after rolling front to back though. I shouldn't think you'll have long to wait! Just keep giving your baby chances to practise, as you're doing!

Personally, I did. My baby is EBF, slept in his own (empty, firm mattress) space in the same room as us til 7.5 months, and one of us stayed with him for all naps til 6.5 months. I really wasn’t willing to mess around with SIDS.

But also, I think it’s important to point out that front sleeping is the single biggest risk factor for SIDS. Breastfeeding is great if you want to and are able to, but not breastfeeding isn’t a significant risk factor for SIDS. The difference in risk for a breastfed baby vs a formula fed baby is minuscule. Whereas the difference in risk for a front sleeping baby v a back sleeping baby is significant.

Overall the risk of SIDS is low, I get that. But it’s low BECAUSE we now know a lot about what causes it, and people are taught about safe sleep. And the foremost rule of safe sleep is that babies should sleep on their backs.

@Somethingsnappy

I wonder how many people who criticise decisions that mothers make re safe sleeping, follow the guidelines to the letter themselves, for example... Exclusive breastfeeding, all sleep, including daytime naps, in the same room as the parents, etc etc.....

Yep, I follow all guidelines to the letter. EBF, baby still in with us at 8 months and will be for a while, all naps in the same room.

I’m not willing to risk my baby’s life.

My DD's could roll one way first and then a month later the other way. Lots of wake-ups with 2nd DD for this over that month.

I know in America they use the baby brezza swaddle blanket to stop babies rolling over at night.

OP you do you. The midwife put DS in my bed to sleep (at my breast) when he was less than 12 hours old (he’s 5 weeks now, so this is recent, and I’m in the UK). She gave me the confidence to bed share with him and put him to sleep on his side. He usually goes to sleep on his back, but on grizzly days bed sharing and side sleeping helps us both sleep. I agree that guidelines are just that. DS is breastfed but I’ve given him a bottle (to rest my cracked nipples). Happy mum, happy baby is my motto. Also, I’m not entirely sure how room sharing decreases the risk, though I appreciate it does, if DS stops breathing how the heck would I know if I’m asleep? It’s not like silence will wake me. Unfortunately I can’t advise on your situation but good luck!

Also, I’m not entirely sure how room sharing decreases the risk, though I appreciate it does, if DS stops breathing how the heck would I know if I’m asleep?

@PurBal Babies regulate their breathing, heart rate, body temperature etc. based on us, that’s why it’s important to be in the same room.

Happy mum but also RESTED mum. It would be lovely if we all had babies that would sleep alone on their backs or could function on zero sleep so baby could sleep snuggled on us (which is on their front!) but that’s not always the case.

Of course it’s important to know the guidelines and the risks but life isn’t perfect.

We accept babies are different in every other way but when it comes to sleep they are meant to be robots?!

I think this thread has been hijacked enough. People with front sleeping babies deserve to be able to ask questions too.

Shame about her waking up more when she saw you @Msl1980s! Hopefully you have more luck with it in the dark and she learns how to roll back soon.

I think this thread has been hijacked enough. People with front sleeping babies deserve to be able to ask questions too.

Of course. And it’s reasonable to respond to questions with known, tested and proven facts about safe sleep.

I don't understand why you put her on her front when you just raise one end of the mattress with a rolled up towel underneath. In hospitals this is what they do for reflux babies, sleep on back and raise mattress.

I don't understand why she's also in her own room before 6 months. What if something happened. Tech isn't always reliable.