Front sleeping baby rolling to back

[Msl1980s]

Hi all, my baby has been sleeping on her front since 5 weeks as she had really bad reflux. That's all fine now but now she's 4 and half months old she's learnt to roll from her front to her back but can't get back over in the middle of the night so am having to go into her room to turn her over or help her get to sleep by giving her a dummy (rarely used) or a bit of milk from a bottle.

I've read it's more difficult for tummy sleeps to go from back to front so wondered if any other mum's have experience of this? How long did it take your babies to learn to roll back to the tummy?
I'm trying to teach her in the day time. I'm also starting to put her down on her back for naps but she doesn't sleep very well on her back

@SilverTimpani

I think this thread has been hijacked enough. People with front sleeping babies deserve to be able to ask questions too.

Of course. And it’s reasonable to respond to questions with known, tested and proven facts about safe sleep.

But that wasn’t the question. And soon enough this baby will be rolling both ways and sleeping on her front regardless

And when she does, it’s fine to leave her to it. But I think it’s important to share the correct information about safe sleep when questions about it arise. Even if the OP is happy with her decision, it means that other people who read the thread can see the facts and not make decisions on the basis of misinformation.

All of mine are tummy sleepers and went through this stage. They’d be so shocked to find themselves on their backs that they couldn’t get back to sleep for quite a while! I turned them back for a bit while we practiced rolling back to tummy during the day and I don’t remember it ever lasting more than 3 weeks!

Jesus almighty! Just leave the poor woman alone! Sleep guidelines tell you to put your baby to sleep in the most unnatural ways known to human beings and expect them to just drift off. Surprise, it doesn't always work. My DS never slept a single minute as the guideline suggests, no matter how hard I tried. Of course you will say I didn't try hard enough because you persevered and your baby eventually learned. Well, good job, you! Well done.
Parents make risk assessment for themselves, asses the situation and make decisions accordingly. Guess what, we all want our babies to be safe as they are the most precious things on earth. But of course it only takes a very vocal advocate to tell everyone how bloody wrong they are, all because you know "in case someone else reads it" - aggghh, you make me so mad I even forgot to address the actual OP!

@SilverTimpani

And when she does, it’s fine to leave her to it. But I think it’s important to share the correct information about safe sleep when questions about it arise. Even if the OP is happy with her decision, it means that other people who read the thread can see the facts and not make decisions on the basis of misinformation.

Agreed. OP is coming out with a lot of misinformation that needs correcting so other mothers don’t base their decisions on it.

And it’s reasonable to respond to questions with known, tested and proven facts about safe sleep.

But that's not what the question was about. You are not actually answering the question. You are just putting across your own, completely irrelevant point. Which the OP didn't actually ask. (Yes, I know, you are doing it for everybody else who comes across the thread please don't repeat it again).

Not miniscule, @SilverTimpani, you need to do a little more research.....

@pinkcircustop

Also, I’m not entirely sure how room sharing decreases the risk, though I appreciate it does, if DS stops breathing how the heck would I know if I’m asleep?

@PurBal Babies regulate their breathing, heart rate, body temperature etc. based on us, that’s why it’s important to be in the same room.

That's just a theory, not a fact. Cause of Sids is actually unknown. I know of more babies who sleep in their own rooms than co-sleep (as did my DC).

@Somethingsnappy

Not miniscule, *@SilverTimpani*, you need to do a little more research.....

Please feel free to share yours rather than making a vague and unhelpful comment which will likely cause anxiety to formula feeding mothers.

@TedHastingsweeDonkey

And it’s reasonable to respond to questions with known, tested and proven facts about safe sleep.

But that's not what the question was about. You are not actually answering the question. You are just putting across your own, completely irrelevant point. Which the OP didn't actually ask. (Yes, I know, you are doing it for everybody else who comes across the thread please don't repeat it again).

No need for me to repeat it since you’ve clearly understood my point

@MintLampShade

Jesus almighty! Just leave the poor woman alone! Sleep guidelines tell you to put your baby to sleep in the most unnatural ways known to human beings and expect them to just drift off. Surprise, it doesn't always work. My DS never slept a single minute as the guideline suggests, no matter how hard I tried. Of course you will say I didn't try hard enough because you persevered and your baby eventually learned. Well, good job, you! Well done. Parents make risk assessment for themselves, asses the situation and make decisions accordingly. Guess what, we all want our babies to be safe as they are the most precious things on earth. But of course it only takes a very vocal advocate to tell everyone how bloody wrong they are, all because you know "in case someone else reads it" - aggghh, you make me so mad I even forgot to address the actual OP!

I was mainly concerned with the things OP posted which weren’t just matters of opinion but were factually wrong.

It’s not a matter of opinion that SIDS has reduced by over 80% thanks to the back to sleep campaign.

It’s not a matter of opinion that babies aren’t going to choke on their vomit if they sleep on their backs.

Every parent makes their own decisions and calculates their own risks - fine. But they should do so on the basis of correct information.

Misinformation about safe sleep can be incredibly dangerous. I don’t think it’s responsible to know something is simply wrong and not correct it.

You don’t have to feel that way. But it’s really nothing to do with you what I post. I choose to share the correct information because when it comes to safe sleep it really does save lives.

Blimey I've been out partying with my baby for a few hours and just got home(and got her in bed at 11pm, god someone shoot me for that now) and this is what I come back to.... 😂

To those asking why I didn't do "x y and z" to get my baby to sleep on her back, I did everything mentioned and more. Doctors, midwives and health visitors all said to go ahead and put baby on her front if that was going to make both of us happy.
My daughter has slept wonderfully from 5 weeks on her front moved her to her own room at 13 weeks and got her started on solids at 13 weeks.... Gone against every guideline out there 😂.
Every baby is different and each mum knows whats best for their baby. I'm not an idiot and I wouldn't do anything to put my baby at risk but as I've said before, the guidelines are exactly that. Just guidelines! Not a legal requirement. So anyone reading this and wondering if they should put their baby on their front incase it helps them sleep - I'm not advocating it. I would have loved for my baby to sleep on her back but it wasn't to be. I'm not giving anyone any wrong information. I'm just saying what I'm doing.
But I totally agree with @MintLampShade back sleeping is totally unnatural! Anyway hey ho.
Happy baby happy mum happy family!
Now I'm off to bed to get my 10 hours sleep 😊

*unless missy wakes up and rolls over in the middle of her sleep cycle then maybe 5 hours sleep.... 😑

I'm with @SilverTimpani here OP. Also, if it hadn't been said already, front sleeping or not, baby should still be in your room until 6 months. My DC had it all- colic, reflux, you name it but it either kept them upright (on me) or put them down on their backs and when they woke up (which they did at alarming intervals), I'd get up, soothe and put down again. I suffered so my DC didn't. My paranoia around SIDS gave me PND but I'd rather that than not have a baby. Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but the research backs it up. However you decide to justify what you do is up to you.

Ps. She's waking herself up because she's very likely going through a sleep regression/growth spurt (between 3-6 months). Once she's mastered whatever it is (rolling over it seems), she'll sleep through again.

@Somethingsnappy

I wonder how many people who criticise decisions that mothers make re safe sleeping, follow the guidelines to the letter themselves, for example... Exclusive breastfeeding, all sleep, including daytime naps, in the same room as the parents, etc etc.....

I did for mine. EBF, every guideline followed to the T.

OMG, leave the op alone. What's the matter with you all? The op has made it clear why she has made decisions and is happy with what she's decided. Are you aware how awful and self-righteous you sound? Go start your own thread about your guidelines and leave this thread free for kind peoole to give relevant advice.

leave this thread free for kind peoole to give relevant advice.

Imo, safe sleep rules are completely relevant advice in respect of OP’s question. And I don’t think anyone has been unkind.

There’s a strong survivorship bias in things like this. People say ‘my baby was fine when I did X, so doing X is ok’ when that’s demonstrably not true. Anecdotes about babies who survived unsafe sleep situations don’t mitigate the actual data, which clearly links certain practices with an increased (sometimes significantly so) risk of death.

What advice do you think can reasonably be given to the OP? She’s already practicing helping her baby learn to roll herself, which is the only thing that will make front sleeping safe (although even when a baby can roll, they should still be placed on their backs to begin with). Any other advice in respect of putting or keeping the baby on her front before she can roll there herself would literally be guiding the OP to do something dangerous and potentially harmful to her baby.

Is that kindness?

You've said your piece eleven times. A quarter of the posts on this thread are yours. The op knows what you think. You don't have to keep going on about it. The op asked a simple question of how long it took to roll from back to front. You've made it a mission to just keep hammering away about something she's told you she already knows so what exactly are you achieving? It might not be your intent but you're coming across as evangelical, self-righteous and verging on bullying.

I suspect she is having a bit of normal sleep regression and the front/back debate is not really the issue. It's unlikely at 6 months she will decide to send herself back off to sleep by going back onto her tummy. Seems a bit advanced for a baby lol. I think it's seeing you and having a drop of milk and the routine of turning her back, that is the trigger for sleep.

When I say 'a bit advanced' I mean an advanced way of reasoning for a young baby. If she goes into her back and wants to play (not unusual) she's unlikely to think 'had a bit of a play, now turn over and go back to sleep'.

Just keep doing what you are doing OP.

I co slept both mine and was told I would kill them. I didn't.

@Msl1980s

Blimey I've been out partying with my baby for a few hours and just got home(and got her in bed at 11pm, god someone shoot me for that now) and this is what I come back to.... 😂

To those asking why I didn't do "x y and z" to get my baby to sleep on her back, I did everything mentioned and more. Doctors, midwives and health visitors all said to go ahead and put baby on her front if that was going to make both of us happy.
My daughter has slept wonderfully from 5 weeks on her front moved her to her own room at 13 weeks and got her started on solids at 13 weeks.... Gone against every guideline out there 😂.
Every baby is different and each mum knows whats best for their baby. I'm not an idiot and I wouldn't do anything to put my baby at risk but as I've said before, the guidelines are exactly that. Just guidelines! Not a legal requirement. So anyone reading this and wondering if they should put their baby on their front incase it helps them sleep - I'm not advocating it. I would have loved for my baby to sleep on her back but it wasn't to be. I'm not giving anyone any wrong information. I'm just saying what I'm doing.
But I totally agree with @MintLampShade back sleeping is totally unnatural! Anyway hey ho.
Happy baby happy mum happy family!
Now I'm off to bed to get my 10 hours sleep 😊

Good for you OP, seems totally reasonable to me. As you say, it worked for you and you are not at all advocating it. It's something You decided for Your family and Your baby. Some people struggle to comprehend that here.

I did try for my DS to sleep on his back and we did manage it until 4m but only because he slept in a Sleepyhead, next to me in bed. He learnt to roll from back to front just before he turned 4 months and from then on, he was uncomfortable in the Sleepyhead as it prevented him from rolling. We stopped using it and that's when he started tummy sleeping on his own accord (and bed sharing with me as he is a total snuggler even now at nearly 2 yrs).

I do think your little one is going through the normal sleep regression which is the reason for her to wake frequently. I believe sleep is completely developmental and there is very little we can do to influence it until they are mature enough, so we just need to do our best to help them along whilst also making sure we get enough sleep too! Their sleep cycles are so different to adult ones, no wonder most Mamas are struggling. It's a difficult stage but it does get better as they get older (or we toughen up and get used to broken sleep and just don't notice it that much?? Haha )

This is from the lullaby trust evidence base document on room sharing:

2.1 Room sharing
There is evidence that when infants are placed in the same room as their parents, but they do not share the same sleep surface (i.e. room-sharing not bed-sharing), a significant decrease in the risk of SIDS is seen.96,114 A large study combining case- control studies from 20 regions across Europe showed the risks of SIDS in multivariate ORs of 0.48 (95% CI 0.34-0.69) and 0.32 (95% CI 0.19-0.55) when a room was usually shared and when a room was shared in the last sleep, respectively.96
Babies should sleep in the same room as their parents during the day as well as night. One case control study found that the risk of unsupervised sleep during the day was almost double that of unsupervised sleep at night (adjusted OR for daytime sleep 10.57, 95% CI 1.47-75.96 vs nighttime sleep 5.38, 95% CI 2.67-10.85).64 A travel cot, Moses basket, playpen, or carrycot is suitable for daytime sleep provided other safer sleep advice is followed.

As with other posters, I think it’s important accurate information is put here in case others come across this thread. I can understand what people are saying about balancing the risks, but what I really don’t understand is why you would put your baby in their own room during the highest risk period for SIDS (2-4 months) when you’re already massively increasing the risk by placing them on their front.

@SilverTimpani, I don't recall you sharing your sources about a 'miniscule' risk and seeing as you made this claim first, perhaps we'd better start there. All the sources I've seen suggest the risk is halved, re BF. Also, you don't seem to have the same issue in creating anxiety for mothers and their choices . Or is it only the guidelines that you yourself have picked and chosen that you feel are relevant here?

I'm currently dealing with this issue. Any suggestions as to how to manage this?