Bringing up a child with a narcissist

[penjo]

My husband is a narcissist, not diagnosed but showing all the typical traits - self absorbed, lack of empathy, inability to apologise, I could go on ... My question is - how do I bring up my son not to copy these behaviours, to know that that's not an okay way to treat other humans ?

Yes don't be fooled if things are largely ok at the moment if your DC is small. I idolised the narcissist as a small child and they were lovely to me while I was a cute little thing trotting around talking about how amazing they were. Once I reached late primary and started seeing through it all it went very bad very quickly. By the teenage years it was horrific and I was largely a good teen! Good grades, nice group of friends etc.

@RandomMess

How old is your DC? Once your DC is no longer putting your H on a pedestal as young DC do how is that going to work out?

This is wonderful to hear. I cant wait until my kids work their narc father out and tell him to get stuffed.

@coodawoodashooda just keep giving them the critical thinking skills to work him out ASAP.

"How to talk so kids will listen, listen so kids will talk" is fabulous for parents to learn the skills to teach DC critical thinking. To have confidence in what they think of other people.

Is he definitely a narcissist I.e. the medical definition or is he just a dick? People are very quick on here to diagnose a rare medical disorder in relation to anyone who is just selfish and horrible. Have you talked to him about it, does he have any idea you consider him to have a very rare psychological disorder? I’m not saying he definitely doesn’t but just trying to understand a bit more.

@penjo

So should a narcissist never be given the chance to have a family ? It's a genuine question, lots going through my mind currently - I do like to think I can support him through this and with therapy find healthier ways of dealing with his emotions but is that unlikely ?

Ideally I would have spotted this before having children, but definitely the behaviours have intensified since pregnancy/birth (ie, attention diverted from him)

As a therapist, I tend to have a more sympathetic view of narcissists than many posters here. It's not as if what they're doing is entirely deliberate and conscious: it is who they are; it's how they're wired - usually through their own childhood experiences.

They also aren't necessarily immoral. Rather they're amoral and, in varying degrees, they struggle with seeing others as autonomous. This can have profound and devastating repercussions.

Therapy can and does work, but it would take a very good therapist who is under no illusions that it will be a slog, and that it will take time. If it works at all.

A lot of the videos on YouTube about narcissism are sensationalistic and play to the gallery. I find the following videos don't, and are really worth watching:

So if they behave badly on purpose whats that called?

Quite frankly for a child with a narcissistic parent the reason behind it is immaterial. I understand why my narcissist is the way they are. I even feel some pity for how utterly miserable and pathetic their life is. However none of that changes in the slightest the pain and suffering they have caused me nor the long term damage I live with every day.

OP apologies if my posts are harsh, it is something I feel very strongly about. I have a wonderful life now and have finally been able to form normal loving family bonds with DH and DS. Day to day I live a very happy life. It is only in times of stress that I feel particularly affected so I work hard to keep stress levels in my life low. This has unfortunately meant having to abandon my career.

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

Quite frankly for a child with a narcissistic parent the reason behind it is immaterial. I understand why my narcissist is the way they are. I even feel some pity for how utterly miserable and pathetic their life is. However none of that changes in the slightest the pain and suffering they have caused me nor the long term damage I live with every day.

OP apologies if my posts are harsh, it is something I feel very strongly about. I have a wonderful life now and have finally been able to form normal loving family bonds with DH and DS. Day to day I live a very happy life. It is only in times of stress that I feel particularly affected so I work hard to keep stress levels in my life low. This has unfortunately meant having to abandon my career.

I don't think your posts sound harsh. My xh is a nasty man and does anything he can to sabotage success, even the minute achievements and bring everyone down. He doesn't deserve to be called a man.

@coodawoodashooda

So if they behave badly on purpose whats that called?

The technical term for that is being an asshole.

Thats not nearly strong enough by way of describing how they operate.

@WhatMattersMost has identified how challenging it is for all involved. The other problem is that Narcs don't realise they are the problem. It's is, by definition, someone else's fault that things haven't gone well.

So DM is genuinely sad and lonely because all the people around her let her down. It's sad to see, and I feel very sorry for her. However they let her down because she's decided what they should do and how they should be, instead of accepting who they actually are and what they want.

She lacks the insight to understand how relationships work, and when you don't play the role she has assigned you she gets enraged.

She wants what other people have- close loving families- but she has no idea how that works, how to achieve it, or what is involved.

She can't understand that at Christmas my family are happy to spend time with each other, playing games or going for walks. She wants to stay with us, but then wants us to take her to Christmas markets, the theatre, meals out, events... all things we don't want to do. She finds us incredibly boring- but she never listens to anyone anyway!

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

Quite frankly for a child with a narcissistic parent the reason behind it is immaterial. I understand why my narcissist is the way they are. I even feel some pity for how utterly miserable and pathetic their life is. However none of that changes in the slightest the pain and suffering they have caused me nor the long term damage I live with every day.

OP apologies if my posts are harsh, it is something I feel very strongly about. I have a wonderful life now and have finally been able to form normal loving family bonds with DH and DS. Day to day I live a very happy life. It is only in times of stress that I feel particularly affected so I work hard to keep stress levels in my life low. This has unfortunately meant having to abandon my career.

I agree, the reason is immaterial next to the damage wrought by a narcissist. Understanding the "why" is more to do with those people around narcissists being able to see that it's not their fault, and they're not doing anything wrong. The narcissist is who s/he is.

In my client work, I often liken being around narcissists and those with abusive traits to being around a damaged and abused dog: you understand why, so that you can keep a clear enough boundary so that you're not bitten. You're not there to try to help or save it - you cannot. Leave that up to the experts (in this case, a therapist).

@WhatMattersMost, thank you so much for the links above, I found them incredibly helpful.

@penjo DD is now 13 and I am afraid you will have to leave eventually. It will only get alot, alot worse.

DD will no longer speak or spend any time with her father. (We are not divorced but live seperately) He just thinks she's going through a stage or something. Neither of us commuicate with him except when absolutely necessary. It is far too damaging. He doesn't seem to care, he has his life arranged how he likes it.

Oh and yes, signs were always there, now I look back, but the birth of DD was when it really kicked up a notch and then continued to do so.

@FabianK

Like I said, I don’t criticise him directly and don’t bring him up unless she does.

[quote BillieSpain]@WhatMattersMost, thank you so much for the links above, I found them incredibly helpful.

@penjo DD is now 13 and I am afraid you will have to leave eventually. It will only get alot, alot worse.

DD will no longer speak or spend any time with her father. (We are not divorced but live seperately) He just thinks she's going through a stage or something. Neither of us commuicate with him except when absolutely necessary. It is far too damaging. He doesn't seem to care, he has his life arranged how he likes it.[/quote]
I'm so glad you did, BillieSpain!

With regard to the age of the child, it definitely becomes harder as they need to grow up and develop their own personality. It becomes harder and harder for the narcissist to cope with them.

Every choice the child makes, everything they do, becomes a slap in the face of the narcissistic parent. As a baby or toddler, it's ok but as they start to contradict, to have their own opinions, preferences etc.- that can't be tolerated because they no longer reflect the narcissist. And that's an issue.

At least, I'm no expert, but that's been my experience.

@coodawoodashooda

Thats not nearly strong enough by way of describing how they operate.

I was being glib. I know very well how they operate.

Okay.

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

I would be more worried about the incredible damage he could do to your son. I grew up with a narcissist parent and their enabler and it has left me with life long damage. I have therapy when needed and now have a wonderful husband and son and have cut all contact with my parents but I may never be able to have a career or normal relationships with most people.

I have grown up way too sensitive and empathetic as I spent my childhood constantly having to monitor and manage my parents emotions and behaviour. So a child of narcissists won't always be a narcissist themselves.

Would you mind to give me any advice as to how i teach my children to identify and cope with the behaviour they experience at their Dads? Or anything anyone said at the time that was, or was not, particularly helpful?

I wish I had advice cood but noone tried to help me (all too scared of the narcissist) and I just focused on survival. However things are very different for your DC. It is not every day for them and they have a non enabling parent. That will make such a difference so please don't worry too much.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Social services wont do anything and i have no concrete evidence. Its endless but things like buying each child Christmas gifts of massive different value. One gets a decent toy, one gets a tiny toy and one gets a towel. The endless tirades of screaming. The twisted manipulation. I kept my mouth shut for ages but they are all school age now and i make it clear that i dont agree with his choices. I dont know what else to do or say? If the abuse was physical it would be acceptable to say it was wrong but because its invisible really the law gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Yes emotional abuse is so hard to prove yet so damaging. In time they will see it and will choose not to go anymore.

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

I wish I had advice cood but noone tried to help me (all too scared of the narcissist) and I just focused on survival. However things are very different for your DC. It is not every day for them and they have a non enabling parent. That will make such a difference so please don't worry too much.

Also, when did you start to realise that he was different? Have you rejected him? Any suggestions of my role in this? I am determined he ruins it himself. I think my kids know hes different and im certain they are scared of him. However they are still young enough to accept with relief his 'niceness' when hes doing being nice, iyswim?

@Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear

Yes emotional abuse is so hard to prove yet so damaging. In time they will see it and will choose not to go anymore.

When woupd you expect this to be? They are 5, 7 and 9.