9 year old bedtime meltdown

[hellobigknickers]

DS9 had a meltdown of epic proportions last night at bed time and I'm feeling really upset today. He's recently started to say that he wants to be 4 again and go back to when life was 'easier' and all he had to do was go to preschool - this came up again through his sobs last night. He was alternating between absolute hysterical crying and just being a shit bag - refusing to budge, won't come up the stairs, wouldn't put pyjamas on.

Apparently all 9 year olds go to bed at 10/10.30 in the holidays. I've told him bedtime is 9.30. We discussed it briefly this morning and he maintains that he shouldn't be going to bed at 9.30 as it's 'unfair'. Apparently that's that and the way it should be.

Does anyone have any advice for this kind of behaviour? His crying feels heavily manipulative, but I really don't want to get this wrong and actually he's really
Worried about something. I gave him every opportunity to talk about what was upsetting him, after he said the 'I wish I was 4' thing we talked about school and how he's upset as he's struggling with organisation at the moment (this is all out of nowhere), but all came back to how his bed time wasn't 'fair'.

I'm at a loss and to be honest confused.

Thanks in advance.

Is he worried about going into year 5? My nine year old always worries about a new teacher in the last few weeks of the holidays and it sometimes affects her behaviour.
I have had the bed time thing too, her friends can all stay up until 10pm or later so she tells me, we have compromised with 9:45pm on weekdays and later at the weekend. We go to bed at 10.15pm so she needs to be tucked in well before then.

I think 10-10.30pm is a fine bedtime during the school holidays when he doesn't have to get up early the next day. He'll probably sleep like a log if you allow that. There's no point in going to bed if you're not tired.

I would say "meltdowns" are quiet unusual for a 9 year old, which makes me think something is bothering him. Has there been any incidents at school such as bullying? By the way my 10 year old goes to bed at 8pm, stays up late til about 9:30/10pm very occasionally as a treat in the holidays or on a Saturday maybe if we are watching a film or something. No way would it be a regular thing, she needs her sleep and is grumpy without it!

Can be not just read a book or something? I’d not necessarily want a nine year old up doing a load of stuff at that time but surely a book is fine, by himself in his room of not wanting to go to sleep. What does he want to do instead? I wouldn’t be entertaining wailing and shit bag behaviour though, that would lead me to be telling him he’s too immature to stay up.

@Foobydoo thanks for your reply. He loves his new teacher! He is scared though about more responsibilities - he's also being teased at school about how much he loses stuff. I find that heartbreaking as I was exactly the same.

It's good to hear that it's not just us going through this at the moment. I've told him that on Friday night he can go to bed at 10.30 as a treat and that seemed to cheer him up. Do I bring up his behaviour last night and tell him it was unacceptable or should I just put this down to having a 9 year old?

I just find his 'I will do what I want and that's that' attitude upsetting, especially given that generally we are quite laid back parents and we entrust him with autonomy in most areas of his life. I don't want to be a 'because I told you so' parent but honestly sometimes it does come down to that doesn't it

Although he is focussing on the time it is likely that isn't the "real" issue. I very much doubt the crying is manipulative but rather an expression of feeling completely overwhelmed (all behaviour is communication...)
How was the rest of the day? Sometimes it can be a lot of little triggers that just build up and then "overspill" at the end of the day. We can focus on the "final straw" without seeing the build up.

Summer holidays can be difficult - lack of structure to term time, changes in routine, feeling unsettled about friendships and school.

(As an aside I'd be curious to know other's usual bedtime for 9 year olds. Ours is much earlier than 10!)

I agree with being left to read if not tired. Would that work? So still "in bed" at a reasonable time but able to read until sleepy.

I would never criticise or "punish" a meltdown, but rather work together to find ways to manage overwhelming feelings or prevent situations occuring. It's hard enough having a meldown without then being criticised for it.

(Imagine you hadn't slept well, were really upset about something at work, had a long day that didn't go well, then came home in busy traffic and once you're home someone had left their rubbish on the floor in the kitchen. You might explode at that, but it wouldn't be the rubbish that caused it.

Similarly - are there times when everything is overwhelming and you feel very emotional? Perhaps a friend or partner comforts you. You dont want to be told the next day that you need to behave better. What is more likely to "work" is to look at why things get to that point, and also ways to handle emotions better in future.)

@SmidgenofaPigeon I did say that to him - if he wants to stay up like an adult but he's not acting like one. He said 'you're just going to say that to me for the rest of my life as an excuse' 😳 he has always been told that he doesn't need to go to sleep - but it is time to be in his room, he can read or listen to a podcast. He says he wants to be downstairs playing Xbox.

@Plumtree391 I think my problem more at this stage is his attitude - I'm not a bed time nazi, but it becomes a tug of war and the more of a sod he is the more I just think, do you know what I'm not giving in here

@L1ttleSeahorse. Honestly we had a lovely day - he played an absolute ton of football and I thought he'd be knackered and pleased it was bed time. I thought with school being a whole 4 weeks away it couldn't really be that, but maybe it is.

I would probably send him to bed even earlier on the grounds that an overwrought 9yo is probably a sign that they are exhausted. (Genuinely, not just sending him to bed earlier to make a point).

@L1ttleSeahorse that’s all well and good and definitely very valid as a point. However, a child is not the one on charge here, and can’t use a bad day as an excuse to rage and demand that they have things their way. I’d expect that from a much younger child who can’t express their feelings properly, but a nine year old can definitely be expected to raise their points/worries/wants more maturely.

Ah- so it comes down to the fact that he just wants to play x-box, and he’s pissed off that that’s not an option. Has he ever had it confiscated for not behaving well? Sounds like he might be a bit fixated on it.

What I'm struggling with the most is a) how out of the blue it was and b) how entitled he has been acting about it. I suppose that's his way of trying to exert control over a situation he feels totally out of control of and upset about.

@L1ttleSeahorse Do you think it best I approach him to discuss big emotions and how he goes about dealing with them?

I feel so out of my depth as a parent today.

@SmidgenofaPigeon it's been threatened a lot but we've never followed through with it as generally it's made him snap out of things. It didn't work last night though

It does sound like he is overwhelmed by the expectations he perceives will be placed on him in year 5. Have a little chat about it, and think of ways you can support him. Could you get him a white board so he can write down a to do list each day? And perhaps a small diary he could use at school.
I would just say you got so worked up last night, maybe next time we could snuggle up and chat so we can think of ways to help perhaps give some examples of how polite negotiation is a better way to go as tantrums get you nowhere.

I must say when dd goes into tantrum mode it comes from seemingly no where and she isn't really in control, she is very upset with herself and apologetic afterwards. There is usually an underlying worry when we unpick it.

Hmmm I’d be tempted to take it away for a few days as a consequence if he’s being entitled about playing it and kicking off when you won’t let him.

I just find his 'I will do what I want and that's that' attitude upsetting, especially given that generally we are quite laid back parents and we entrust him with autonomy in most areas of his life.

Well, yes. Which means he's not used to being told what to do? Bring to play whichever techniques usually work with him when you do need to set boundaries. How would you usually handle a 'that's enough youtube' or 'no we're not having ice cream for breakfast' event?

@HerNameIsIncontinentiaButtocks

We still have boundaries - if I tell him no YouTube or ice cream he'll whinge and moan but I'm used to that and it just goes over my head and we move on and do something else. This wasn't a whinge or moan, this was full on hysterics. One minute sobbing next minute just sitting on the floor and absolutely refusing to move saying he was staying there all night. He was out playing football with dh before dh said right time to go home and get some weetabix and bed - he shouted at dh that he wasn't going to bed and said he was walking home alone without dh and it was unfair and blah blah. Then he came in and totally blanked me and put YouTube on in a 'I'm going to do this whether you like it or not' way. Then starts the hysterics.

I just read the xbox thing. Is he playing with friends who are staying on much later than him?
It is a difficult one, ideally I would want him off the xbox well before bed so that he can wind down properly. It is hard though when friends have less rules.

He's never done this before. Yes we've had problems at bed time like everyone else, he's particularly sensitive (much like me) and we've had tears, but the shouting and belligerence is unusual.

I notice my almost 9 yr old DS is really struggling with transitions at the moment. So going from breakfast to getting dressed, ending an activity and 'going home' or switching off screens etc
I'm making far more effort to give countdowns and time warnings as well as making sure he wears his watch and sets timers. It's helping. I think overwhelm and lack of routine actually make the holidays difficult. Having a set bedtime also works better as well so he knows where he stands. It's annoying because it's so nice to just go with the flow when things are fun and seeing friends etc but the over-reaction , tantrums and emotional responses are just not worth it

@hellobigknickers

He's never done this before. Yes we've had problems at bed time like everyone else, he's particularly sensitive (much like me) and we've had tears, but the shouting and belligerence is unusual.

If it is a one off I would just have a chat with him, we all have bad days. Just reiterate that tantrums wont work and if it happened again you would need to bring his bedtime earlier as he must be over tired.

My 9 year old is autistic so does have meltdowns normally anxiety driven. However he is rarely asleep in school holidays before 10pm nor are any of his friends. Him and his friends were in my garden till 9pm last night as it was light. When he behaves like that though would put him to bed earlier as he is tired. I tend to remind him if he wants me to treat him like his age I expect him to behave like it.

I would have just left him to sulk for 20 minutes. Then tried again. With a fresh mind. Smile and talk gently but be firm

You can also tell him that my 9 year old goes to bed at 8. All year round!!