9 year old bedtime meltdown

[hellobigknickers]

DS9 had a meltdown of epic proportions last night at bed time and I'm feeling really upset today. He's recently started to say that he wants to be 4 again and go back to when life was 'easier' and all he had to do was go to preschool - this came up again through his sobs last night. He was alternating between absolute hysterical crying and just being a shit bag - refusing to budge, won't come up the stairs, wouldn't put pyjamas on.

Apparently all 9 year olds go to bed at 10/10.30 in the holidays. I've told him bedtime is 9.30. We discussed it briefly this morning and he maintains that he shouldn't be going to bed at 9.30 as it's 'unfair'. Apparently that's that and the way it should be.

Does anyone have any advice for this kind of behaviour? His crying feels heavily manipulative, but I really don't want to get this wrong and actually he's really
Worried about something. I gave him every opportunity to talk about what was upsetting him, after he said the 'I wish I was 4' thing we talked about school and how he's upset as he's struggling with organisation at the moment (this is all out of nowhere), but all came back to how his bed time wasn't 'fair'.

I'm at a loss and to be honest confused.

Thanks in advance.

I noticed someone mentioned Xbox. I would ban it for a few days if that was linked to his behaviour. My son doesn’t get more than one hour a day on computer games and never after 7pm. If he kicks of over them it’s banned for a couple of days. It’s a privilege he has to earn back.

Thanks @olivesnutsandcheeseplease, I am wondering if maybe when he thought he was going out to play football with his dad he was going to be out there for more than an hour and we didn't prewarn him it was bed time when it had got dark (they came in at 9.15).

Sorry to hear there are other struggling, but it does make me feel a ton better to hear it's normal. I know there are a lot of hormones going on at this age as well so I'll put some of it down to that.

I think, selfishly, a big part of me is worried I don't 'get' him and have missed fulfilling a need he had and should have known about.

If he's watching youtube/ playing x-box right up until bedtime perhaps he's very overstimulated by then and switching into 'bed-time gear' feels very difficult.

Perhaps try stopping all screens at 7pm or so, then he has some time to wind down before you are saying it's bedtime.

I hope no one minds me saying this as I’m not actually a parent yet- I am currently heavily pregnant though! But I’ve worked in education and then nannying for 12 years and have lots of experience with this age group.

It’s difficult for parents sometimes to be objective about this- OP you say you feel guilty that you might have missed a need or some kind of issue- that’s really common and understandable parent guilt and sometimes, these kids pick up on this and really play up on it. SOMETIMES there is an underlying issue to entitled behaviour- a lot of the time they’re pushing your buttons to get something they want and they know you might well give in to them if they’ve had a bad day or there’s a chance they have some sort of worry that you haven’t been able to work out. Honestly, believe me there are definitely times where there’s no issue at all- but if you winkle pick them enough they are not above inventing one to manipulate getting something they want or feel they should have. Lots of parents don’t want to hear or believe that or risk not believing when there’s a genuine worry, but it’s true.

I have genuinely lost count of the times I've parroted "when we're tired..." and the kids finish off "...little feelings turn into big feelings". If they get over-tired, small stuff can overwhelm them - which is not so different to me tbh.

My 9 (almost ten) year old goes to bed a lot earlier than that, even in the holidays. No devices after 8, bedtime starts 8.45, bathroom stuff, bit of reading together, then I leave them to it by 9.15 and they read until they get sleepy. They wake around 7.30/8.00 in the mornings.

Feelings were running very high at bedtime here last week. I didn't get it fully unpicked but I think it was a combination of relief/anxiety that covid restrictions are easing so it was safe to let feelings out, plus less structured holiday time, plus less of my attention that day as I'd had to work more than normal. Plus possibly a growth spurt because obviously I've just ordered the new uniform.

I'd let him stay up until 10.30 but make it the most boring hour of his life.

He has to get his PJs on and come back down, no electronics, not even TV, he can read or do chores and that's it.

Do you still read to him or does he like audio books?
We have quite a young 9 year old with SEN (who thankfully doesn't have many friends to compare bedtime) but we use a routine where he has 30 minutes to do bath/pyjamas/teeth and the quicker he is the longer he gets for us to read to him. Then he reads to himself, though that part does tend to involve a lot of running up and down stairs.

@sashh

I'd let him stay up until 10.30 but make it the most boring hour of his life.

He has to get his PJs on and come back down, no electronics, not even TV, he can read or do chores and that's it.

Yes, oldest trick in the book. I remember being stubborn enough to sit through the boredom so I could stay up a bit later. Used to love proving my points 😂

@sashh 😂😂 such a good idea

@drspouse still reading a few chapters at night

He's come home from his holiday club - he's happy but he's still very emotional and absolutely shattered. Crying easily and lots of strops. Not sure what's going on but need to get to the bottom of it somehow. If I ask him what's wrong he'll close up
Immediately so need to go gently gently.

You do have to get to the bottom of it, it's obviously more than just staying up later. Poor little lad. Does he like the holiday club, how often does he go?

@Plumtree391 he absolutely loves it - just booked him in for next week as well and he's so happy about it. He actually has a few school friends going to the camp as well - I'm wondering if that is triggering the school stuff (typing it out I realise how obvious it sounds now)

I am 19 weeks pregnant. He has been fine about it so far and not emotional but I do wonder if it's also to do with the new baby. He was amazing when his little sister came along but it's definitely been different this time and he's not as excited.

If I ask him though he'll say 'I'm fine'. 💔

At least you know it isn't the holiday club.

You may find it just wears off over the next couple of weeks. I hope so.

Sorry me again.

Everyone saying that 10-10.30 is an ok bed time on holidays - I really can't turn around and say to my 9 year old ok fine, you can go to bed late now because you've had a tantrum and thrown yourself on the floor and been horrible to me and dad. Its absolutely going to embed this kind of behaviour and also, I won't be talked to like by my child like ive done something wrong when I'm his parent and making decisions for his welfare

I say this because I've gone through the bedtime routine tonight with him so he's not taken by surprise, explaining he'll have football with dad and then we'll play a board game etc. and we've had a replay of last night. Meltdown. Refusal to do ANYTHING. We're all very emotionally drained.

I'd say he's knackered. If my 9 yo starts crying and what have you we agree on an early night. (She doesn't always agree at the time mind)

Bedtime is 8, sometimes 0815. Early night is in bed for 1930, lights out 1945.

Camping at the mo, and 2230 was deffo too late, for us all frankly!!!

Shoulda added, if she has a problem she works around to telling me. This does sound like tired to me

@hellobigknickers

Sorry me again.

Everyone saying that 10-10.30 is an ok bed time on holidays - I really can't turn around and say to my 9 year old ok fine, you can go to bed late now because you've had a tantrum and thrown yourself on the floor and been horrible to me and dad. Its absolutely going to embed this kind of behaviour and also, I won't be talked to like by my child like ive done something wrong when I'm his parent and making decisions for his welfare

I get that. Just don't say anything about bedtime, tell him to get ready and come downstairs for a while.

Mine used to amuse himself quietly sitting with us until later, it was no problem. It was actually quite cosy.

Thanks @xksismybestletter I can see he is shattered.

@Plumtree391 DH is trying his approach tonight. I put ds in the bath and let him watch the iPad - dh is now playing a board game in ds's room and giving him full attention up there until bedtime. If this doesn't work then I give up the fight and he can stay downstairs chilling with us - I'm going to turn the tv off and read a book and he can chill and do what he wants without screen involvement

Thanks a lot everyone for words of wisdom

I would hate having mine downstairs "not having fun" all evening because we'd have to supervise, and not watch anything scary or adult! I'd actually rather read to him for half an hour, or even sit on the landing reading my book.

@drspouse I feel you - we're desperate to finish Mare of Eastwood

My 11 yo and 7 yo go to bed about 9-9.15 No screens from about 7.30. 11 yo is an early riser so needs to go up a little on the early side. Hes welcome to read until he is ready to sleep. But its about quiet wind down time and respect for the fact that parents need an evening and a little time to themselves.

The range will be wide for bedtime and you fall somewhere in the middle and are not unreasonable.

Id be less worried about that and more worried about the i want to be 4 again and meltdown stuff. Not it its a one off. But if it is a regular thing I'd start keeping a diary and looking for patterns and triggers.

@cauliflowerkorma he's said it before in a less emotional way - 'I used to just get a mini figure because I wanted one now I have to wait until I have my pocket money' kind of thing. I'm not sure if it's the real core of whats wrong or he's just grabbing as reasons he feels emotional.

My guy is telling me it's hormones. I asked them to bring their board game down as they were being a bit loud and DD would be woken up. The displacement made him cry. He reminds me of me when I'm due on. I'm not going to overlook the possibility of something deeper but similarly I don't want to create an issue out of a non issue if that makes sense.

Grabbing *at reasons

And my *gut, not my guy.

Combination of hormones and feeling the pressure of growing up probably. We expect girls to be emotional at this age but IME boys are just as much.

I think 10 with lights out at 10.30 is fine in the summer unless he's like a zombie the next day through tiredness.

I seem to remember letting ds go to bed when he liked on Fridays but devices off at 10 so he'd read but rarely stayed up very late.