Newborn won't sleep at all - is this normal? Help please!

[Sufi]

My ds is just 17 days old and I know everyone says they don't sleep but I'm not sure I can cope with this for months on end. I'm breastfeeding on demand and he feeds every 2 hours. At night, he wakes up around 10pm and won't setle at all until 4am. No snoozing, no sleeping, just feeding and fussing. I've tried changing his nappy, not changing his nappy, feeding lying down so that he dozes off with nipple in mouth, putting him in cot, having him in bed with me, walking him round, giving him to dh, having him in my arms.. nothing seems to settle him and I just don't think I can cope with this. The midwives just said 'oh that's normal, it'll only last a few months'. I can't do a few months of this, though! I'm thinking of ditching breastfeeding and giving him formula - would this settle him? Is he hungry? Has anyone got any advice? Help!

i'd say every 2 hrs in the day could be normal. but awake solidly from 10pm till 4am doesn't sound quite right to me. is he snacking or taking in a good feed each time? is he falling asleep on the breast before he has had a chance to satisfy his hunger? is he a bit colicky do you think? does he have a good nap during the day?

sorry, lots of questions.

don't give up on bf just yet!

midwives know chuff all about feeding newborns btw - it's outside the realm of their expertise.

might i also suggest you post this in the breast feeding topic? i think you will get more/better answers if you do.

I BF my first every 2 hours for about 6 months. I counted the night from midnight so if he fed at 11pm, 2am and 6am it felt like he had only been up once and that helped.

He is still small and hasn't learnt night and day yet.

It will get easier, hang in there.

I wouldn't give him formula just to get him to sleep longer-it didn't make a bit of difference to my dd.

It feels like forever when you are going through it doesn't it so I know what you mean about not thinking you can do it.

No advice really cos like you I tried everything so don't really know if one thing worked or not. All I can say is that within 8-10 weeks or so my dd had done away with the long periods of awakness at night and although she was still waking at least 2 hourly for a feed would always go back down afterwards without too much fussing.

It isn't feeding related it is behavioural, lots of newborns do it as they have been used to an environment where there is no marked distinction between night and day and it takes time them to adjust. It is very unlikely he is actually hungry if you feed him on demand but rememeber his tummy is the size of his fist and needs topping up regularly. Formula may well make no difference anyway but as he gets older his tummy will hold more, he will sleep longer and you will be able to help him have the bulk of his sleep at night. It needn't take a few months to get to a point where you feel he is more settled. Take each day at a time , then each week, then see.

thanks for the messages, didn;t know there was a breastfeeding topic so will have a look on there. I think he's snacking rather than feeding, as he starts, falls asleep, I put him down and he wakes up and we have to go through the process all over again. He's fine in the day as sleeps between feeds. I can cope with the every 2 hours thing but he's just not giving me a break between feeds at night - so it feels like one long feed and my boobs are sore and empty! Argh!

could you, express milk for a night time so you can see how many ounces he is feeding maybe not getting enough milk

my cousin had this problem seemed to be fine in day but not producing much come night only found this when expressing milk

but expressign does n't give an accurate idea of amount prioduced , so much is in the technique. You may feel not so full at night but you won't actually be empty. If you feel he may not be feeding effectively (soreness could be an indicator) could you see a BFC to check your latch and position.

The amount you can express is never an indication of how much the baby gets or how much milk is in there,so forget that idea.

They don't know the difference between night and day yet.The secret is not to impose your routine on them,but follow theirs. So,if he sleeps in the day,may i suggest you do the smae?

It will all work out in the end.

Oh yes my DS was just like this for 3/4 weeks and it was a killer. He was fed EBM by bottle too so it wasn't because he wasn't getting enough milk in the evenings either (this is such a common myth and it's a real pity).

I agree with moondog, just try and follow him for now and he will gradually start sleeping more at night and a bit less during the day. Just do what you can to sleep and rest. When he sleeps don't try and do housework etc, rest and sleep as much as you can. It doesn't last long in the scheme of things but it does feel like it. Sympathies

They feed a lot in the evening to stimulate your breasts to make more milk the next day.It's like us putting money in the bank in the hope of lots of lovely interest in the future.

Let everything else go to pot,take yourselves off to bed and sleep all day if you want/can.

Remember it is demand and supply. Make sure you rest as much as is possible and have a drink while your baby is having a drink.

Sounds like your lo still needs to distinguish night from day. DS had this, so when I fed him at night I only had a small dim light on so I didn't wake him up too much. After a couple of weeks he seemed to get the hang that dark time is sleepy time. He still fed every 2 hours in the night, but he settled quicker.

This will change. Your lo will start to sleep for longer periods, and will become easier to settle. Stopping bf'ing won't change any of this. You're doing so well, don't stop now. Good luck xx

This was me SO recently, but it does pass, I promise. It feels like a lifetime at the time but already I miss the long feeding sessions and it was only a few weeks ago. This period of frequent (relentless!) feeding is very important to establish a good milk supply so feed feed feed. If your breasts feel really empty just keep letting him suck, milk is always being made for him.

It's not going to be like this for months. It will get better. Go to bed with him so you can doze and feed together. Don't be shy of daytime napping!

You will get wonderful support here, keep at it!

I too am in that phase. My LO is 10 weeks old and I promise it settles down at around 6 weeks not months - but it can be months if you keep allowing him to snack! Need to take a full feed. By the time they are 6 weeks old should be able to go 3 hrs between feeds, choose some ffed times and stick to them, that way if LO cries you will know whether it is hunger or not.
Good luck and a big hug to you - I did lots of crying and ate lots of chocolate.

Oh scoggins, I disagree - the evening/nighttime sucking is vital to establish supply - her baby's only 17 days old ! A routine of set feeding times at this stage could jeopardise her milk supply.

Don't give up on breastfeeding, please.

However, I used to find with my DS3 when he was tiny that in order to get off to sleep we had to sit in a darkened room with me holding him snugly but not breastfeeding him (even though he would still be trying to root) so that he would settle to sleep. Obviously you can only do this if you think he has already fed enough, but if he's had a good feed then you can do it.

Good luck, Sufi, it is very hard at this stage I know but it will get easier.

Yes scoggins, got to disagree - ds did 2-hrly feeds pretty constantly for 4.5m - they are all different, there is no "should" that will fit every baby on the planet.

Agree about the crying and chocolate though. And mning

my 7 month old still feeds hourly during the day

Have you tried swaddling him at night? I think as others have said, 2 hourly in the day is normal and fine, it's the constant snacking half the night and not settling (also very, very normal, my DD1 did this) you need to try and crack. He will probably still want to feed 2 hourly at night at this age, but if you can get him settled well in between, that's the key, then before you know it it will be every 3 hours and you'll be getting your sleep in 2 hour bursts which will make all the difference (I used to reckon that 3 x 2 hour stretches = a full nights sleep). Good luck!

could you get your partner to go to him in the night when you don't think he's really hungry and let him change and soothe him. Your milk smells stronger at night and might find it hard to settle on you.

Also, if you know he wakes up at 10, could you go to bed at 8pm a few nights just to catch up on a couple of good hours sleep.

tbh i think it is normal too. my ds has a prolongued feeding and fussing phase - but luckily for me it it between about 6pm and midnight, so a bit more civilised. all i can really suggest is sleeping during the bits in the day when he sleeps. also, let him have his nighttime feeding frenzy in bed with you in the dark. at least you might get to doze a bit and he will eventually change his pattern

Don't you lot think this sounds like normal infuriating newborn behaviour?

I didn't realise until he arrived that babies don't all go to sleep at 7pm only waking for feeds thereafter! To me this sounds like normal cluster feeding albeit at an inconvenient time.

Sufi, I really think you'll get more specific advice in the feeding section, so I'm going to link to this thread if that's ok, unless I can find you've posted in there already.