Newborn won't sleep at all - is this normal? Help please!

[Sufi]

My ds is just 17 days old and I know everyone says they don't sleep but I'm not sure I can cope with this for months on end. I'm breastfeeding on demand and he feeds every 2 hours. At night, he wakes up around 10pm and won't setle at all until 4am. No snoozing, no sleeping, just feeding and fussing. I've tried changing his nappy, not changing his nappy, feeding lying down so that he dozes off with nipple in mouth, putting him in cot, having him in bed with me, walking him round, giving him to dh, having him in my arms.. nothing seems to settle him and I just don't think I can cope with this. The midwives just said 'oh that's normal, it'll only last a few months'. I can't do a few months of this, though! I'm thinking of ditching breastfeeding and giving him formula - would this settle him? Is he hungry? Has anyone got any advice? Help!

Hey Sufi

Parachuting in from the BF board... Sorry you're having a rough time - that 10-4 thig sounds awful but my guess is - though it is typical for newborns for a few weeks - it almost certainly won't be like that for a few months - sounds like your little one is building up the supply so if you can knuckle down and just stick that nipple in his/her mouth for a few more days, it will probably even out. 12 days or so is not an uncommon time for growth spurts, though some babies seem to do this a lot.

As others have said it also sounds a bit like evening cluster feeding, just at the 'wrong' time! You have a number of options - 1. give up on your expectations of a 'normal' day for now and let your baby dictate, 2. use a dummy to give yourself a rest (although be warned it can lead to nipple confusion and not everyone who supports BF thinks this is a good idea - it did save my sanity though in the early days, though the consequences are a poor latch in my little one that I'm still trying to resolve...). Or use a clean finger (soft side up) for baby to suck on (dad's finger will work equally well to give you a break!) and 3. gradually try and shift the cycle a bit so the cluster feeding is a more civilized time - eg, start offering the breast a bit earlier than 10 and stopping a bit sooner than 4 etc... and a bit more the next day. Might not work but if it's gonna help you feel like you're making a difference and it might keep you BF, it might be worth a go. And definitely have a chat to the BF counsellor on one of the phone helplines before you decide to give up completely - no guarantee your baby will sleep more on formula...

Just wanted to add my words of support to everyone elses. It does get better.

It sounds weird but reverse psychology worked for me when I found I was getting totally obsessed about how little sleep I was getting, even to the point of keeping notes 24hrs a day. Eventually I took the approach that I wasnt going to get any sleep so when some did happen it was fantastic (rather than waking up thinking oh god, awake already, I would try and think 2 solid hours, lovely)!

Also try to remember this period is so short and so precious, it really will be over before you know it. Just go with your babys flow, nothing else should matter right now. Enjoy the closeness with him and sleep whenever you get the chance, no matter what time of day it is or what chores need doing!

My ds is 7 weeks old and he was like this at the beginning. He would be awake from about 1 til 4-5 and nothing would settle him. He would just go to sleep when he was good and ready.
I gave up fighting it and just went downstairs with him and watched tv or a dvd and coped much better with it.

Now at 7 weeks he is still feeding every 2 hrs but will settle for the night at about 11.30 most nights.
It will pass.

Good point wintersun - DP and I watched every single episode of My Name is Earl within about 3 weeks of DS's birth (before the colic and lack of subtitles made it a bit pointless!)

I really do empathise. I remember spending ages looking at DS1 in the middle of the night, going "Why won't you just sleeeeeeeeep?!" (DS1 in particular - because I hadn't learnt to feed lying down when I had him - with DS2 I realised how brilliant this was, so tried Very Hard from the word go to sort out this position)

Then he'd snooze for ages in the day and be completely unwakeupable - I could pass him round friends and family, change his nappy - he'd be spark out.

It does get easier though - my theory (and it's just a theory I thought up whilst sleep deprived in the wee small hours!) is that babies are used to night time being play time in the womb - when you are active during the day, they're rocked to sleep, but when you lie down to sleep, they wake up. Remember the rummaging around in your tummy just as you got comfy for the night?! What are they doing in there anyway, looking for clean socks?! The twist?!

So I would echo what the others have said - sleep in the day if you can, learn to feed lying down and don't "try" too many things to get him to sleep - be as calm as you can around him. I know it's very hard when you're so sleep deprived, I really do.

And I don't think it's a feeding thing, truly - there's no guarantee he'll be more settled if you move to bottles and if you really want to breastfeed, it'd be a shame to stop.

How is feeding going? Is he well latched? How's his weight? Is he producing wet and dirty nappies regularly?

When are you trying to put him down for the night? Maybe it would be better to try to keep him up for a while in the evening so that he goes to bed at about 10 instead of waking up then? You'll lose your evening but maybe get back some sleep.

I would also recommend a dummy. If your ds falls asleep sucking your breast he may do so with a dummy and stay asleep, since he won't have to be moved. I doubt it would cause nipple confusion now that you've got bfing established.

hi i agree with tryingtoleave i found a dummy a total lifesaver in the early days of BF my DD. i felt like the no sleep routine for me would never end!! at one point i was managing about 2 hours of broken sleep per night as my DD would wake at around 10 for a feed and then scream blue murder for about 6 hours!! i thought it was colic and tried everything until i gave in and gave her a dummy!! she started sleeping for 3 hour bursts in the late evening/early hours so i would them get into bed myself! she was also feeding every 2 hours in the day and would wake for the morning feed at about 5 and stay awake for a little while but no more screaming to fill the silence!![relieved emoticon!] i agree with those who say sleep when they do and follow their routine because if you try to put your own in the baby will just basically laugh/scream you out the door!!good luck and you are doing brilliantly just let yourself relax about it a little bit and you will be fine!!
xx ei xx

How's it going Sufi? Any better?

My ds is 4 wks and the first 2 wks were hard coz he would sleep most of night some days but other nights he would b awake til 4 then til 6 then til 7. i was loosin my mind but the last 4 nights hav been great! coz he was awke all night he got over tired an was awake all next day! very wingy but know he sleeps at 7 i wake him at 10.30 to change and feed, he sleeps till 2, i feed him without turning lights on then he sleeps till 7, and now stays awake most of day! think this has upset him a little as he is confused. i am breast feeding, babies also cluster feed, sometimes round tea time ready for bed or sometimes in middle of night! please dont go for formular as u wont praduse as much milk urself. ur milk will aventulary kick in! i expressed 5 oz on wk three from right breast but only 2 from left!gd luck hun! time goes so quickly!

Hey all - just wanted to say thanks for all the advice, it really helped. DS is now sleeping much better and he tends to cluster feed in the early evening now, which is much more manageable. I took your advice and chilled out about it, and I don't know whether me being more relaxed had anything to do with it, but he seemed to sleep better/more almost as soon as I stopped fretting... so still bf 6 wks on. THANK YOU all for the advice - what would we do without MN?!

Big hugs xx

Hi Sufi! Well done, you have given me hope!! DD is 14 days old and doing exactly the same, although her chosen "nightmare" time seems to be from 9pm-3am . I am trying to chill out about it too, but really struggling physically with the tiredness, scared I'm going to fall asleep while feeding her etc. Can I ask what you did, or did things just fall into place eventually? Thanks!

Hi Caz

Really feel for you - it feels like it's never going to end while you're going through that stage but it will pass.

Mostly it's down to the baby, but things that helped:

• relax (hard, I know) - when I chilled out, so did he
• I took him into bed with me and fed him lying down, boob in his mouth, so that if i fell asleep it wasn't a problem. He now sleeps in our bed, following all the guidelines, and it means I actually get to sleep! But if you don't want to co-sleep, just lying down and being able to close your eyes brings blissful relief.
• I stopped changing his nappy every 5 mins! I just change him once during the night now, and when he has slept til 5am, left it til then. I let him tell me when to change him!
• and I also put some podcasts onto my iPod and started listening to that to pass the time - was too tired to read but also going out of my mind with tiredness/boredom. It really helped! Rarely use it now but it's there just in case he has a bad night. BBC Radio have loads of free podcasts you can download.

I didn't try a dummy as some of the other posters suggested as it seemed to sort itself out before I needed to.

It WILL get better, I promise! And now I'm so glad I stuck with bf and not going onto formula, and it already feels like it happened ages ago...

Good luck, lots of hugs! xx

Thanks Sufi! I just can't believe how bad the tiredness is, I'm feeling dizzy and cross-eyed after a few hours, and by 2-3am it's awful! Then I generally get about 3 hrs sleep and wake up feeling that it's all bearable again!
Will keep re-reading your post and remind myself it will get better...

I have only read the OP, but wanted to say that my DS2 was just the same with not sleeping in the early hours, due to extreme trapped wind that he had trouble shifting.
I found that winding him and putting him to sleep on his side helped a little bit. He gradually got better as the weeks passed, but his sleep didn't really improve until he was about 3mths old. I tried Colief and Infacol but they didn't seem to help us a great deal.

Hang on in there, sleep deprivation is hard, but as your MW said - this phase doesn't last for long.

hi, is your baby getting enough milk?i had problems like you and it turned out that poor tike was starving all the time!!once i started combining breast and bottle and she was getting enough feed all the fuss and sleeplessness stopped.

Haven't read it all, but about half the answers so excuse if Iam repeating anything that someone else has said.

You have tried many things in a short 17 days to try to settle him. I would pick the thing that seems to work better than anything else, it may be but marginally, and stick with that. You may confuse him changing things constantly, do the same thing all the time and he will eventually get used to it. I wouldn't make it anything too elaborate either or he will come to need it every time. DD1 needed to be swaddled, but DD2 never needed it from day 1, and wouldn't tolerate it.

They are all different, and 4 or 5 mths will pass before you know it, tho it will seem to drag on at the time.
The sleep deprivation is the hardedst thing for me, sleep when he does is the best advice you have been given, sod everything else if you want to stay sane, that includes the housework and any visitors who want to pop over, they can come at YOUR convenience, not theirs.

well I guess I should have read it a bit closer or for longer, just realised this was a month ago and you have thanked everyone for their help