Middle child saying things that concern me

[Shookethtothecore]

Hello. I have 3 children aged 10,4 and 2.
My middle son is a handful, but it’s some of the things he says that concern me.
I honestly think I discipline all of them the same, they all have the same house rules abs expectations, and they are pretty basic tbh.
My middle son tries to push more than the others, but he is headstrong and I love that about him, he does what he wants with such gusto for life it’s great to see.
However, he says stuff that concern me and I don’t know what to do. For example. He got told off for hitting his sibling, I talked to him once- said not to hit anyone it isn’t kind, he did it again, so I said “I’ve told you not to hit, it isn’t kind ect if you hit again you will have to come inside for a bit and not play” he hit again. So he came in and say with me for a few mins to calm down. He says things like “I’m stupid” “I’m such a stupid boy” I reassure him he ain’t stupid he just made a bad choice everyone makes bad choices ect and he will learn and grown like everyone else ect. But he repeats he is stupid.
He also says things like “your never on my side” when I say he can’t have things. Like chocolate for breakfast. I expect a 4yr old to kick off, but some of the things he says are so jarring. It seems manipulative sometimes because he puts himself down so much that we end up glossing over the things he’s done because I can’t bare to hear him say these things. He isn’t manipulative tho surely he’s 4?
Is this “normal” what can i do?

Sorry it’s early. I don’t want to drip feed.

He has always had a temper and been my one who was “harder” he never slept, hard to get to eat, hard to get to potty train, he was the one who would bolt off in shops ect. He is so full of energy.
He is the one who plays hard, he is so full of life and everything is a million miles an hour with him. He needs my full attention and demands it whenever he can.
He is the one I get phone calls home from school because he has done something, he is the one who doesn’t sit still. He is so amazing, he’s so funny and so smart he’s just a force.

I’m worried I’ve done something to make him feel like this.

If he gets an idea in his head he doesn’t stop. For example. If he sees an advert for a toy he wants he asks me for is constantly. He will litterally wake me up at 3am and ask for it.

Also, if is doing something wrong- for example he was running the tap full pelt in the bathroom and getting everything soaking. I asked him to stop as he was soaking everything, he will look you dead in the face and say “I can’t hear you” abs repeat every time you talk to him and continue to do what I’ve asked him not to do.

I end up shouting at him and that’s when he will start putting himself down and saying I favour the other children. What have I done wrong and what can I do to show him that isn’t the case.
I feel like maybe he knows I feel guilty when he says these things and plays on it, but am I reading too much into that he’s only 4?!

Hi OP, you have a lot on your plate.
The age range jumped out at me. When born your middle DS was the baby - but not for long until DC3 turned up. That could have affected him. biological sibling competition coming through.
It's worrying that he is internalising his feelings ie calling himself stupid. This is happening when he's also hitting? Therefore the hitting is what the Americans call 'acting out'? So I'd look for where his overwhelming feelings might be coming from.
Is there anyone in his life who might be saying evil things to him or bullying him to leave him feeling this way? Or could it just be the age gap thing?

I know how kids can seem manipulative. My take on it is just that they a really good at making sure their needs are met. It's a biological imperative if you think about it. Unlikely to be premeditated.
Maybe he will always be demanding. There may be some elements of this that are just 'him'.

You must be so busy with 3 DC, 2 of them so young. But could you carve out 10 mins 1-1 time with each of them every day. In that time just give them undivided attention and crucially just do what they want. No asking them about their day or talking about behaviour. Just do whatever they want for 10 mins. Be consistent and do it even if they have been naughty. If they don't know what they want then just do rough housing / tickle fighting or whatever.
Might help the middle DC to have some time with you (and his dad if that's possible) and feel like he has your focus sometimes. And that it stops, but it comes back every day.
Hope that makes sense
Good luck

Hi OP. My son is exactly like this although he is an only child. He doesnt sit still, he walks into things, he doesnt walk anywhere he runs, he wont just sit on the sofa, he jumps on it as a result his legs are constantly covere in cuts and brusises. He answers back (has an answer for EVERYHING), tells lies, has the most epic tantrums and can display quite manipulative/controlling behaviour especially when it comes to me. I dont k ow whether he is actually being manipulative but that's what it can feel like sometimes.

That being said, he is also adorable, funny, loves a good dance which is hilarious, loves a cuddle and tells me he loves me all the time. He is clever and imaginative and makes me laugh every single day!

Sorry I have no advice but I understand why your concerned as my son is very similar. I wonder whether it's just their personality and it will even out of the next few years. Some kids just dont deal well with being 3/4. Well that's what I'm hoping anyway!

@FawkesThePhoenix thank you for understanding. I think you put it more eloquently than me but yes- exactly like that. I love him so so much but elements of his behaviour (or personality) are concerning and hard work.

I have also said to my husband “what if it’s his personality and how the hell do we cope when he’s 15 🙈😂)

@NeverRTFT

Thank you. He responds really well to one to one- he just demands it all the time and it can overshadow them lovely time we have because when it’s time to move on he pushes and pushes for more and it ends up being a bit of a power struggle. I love spending time with just him tho and maybe do it more on a “schedule” so he knows a certain everyday is his time?! Keep a routine you know?!

I don’t think he is being picked on- I’d like to see someone try tbh 🙈😂 but you never know. I’ll keep an eye on him.

Thank you for your advice it’s really helpful. I like thinking of him just getting his needs met and he’s just good at it

Some of this sounds like my 6yo Dd although coming out in different ways. I've started saying to her that being fair doesn't mean treating everyone the same. I'm speed reading a few books... Solidarity op

The internalising of his thoughts is what I would love to help him with. School have said the same- he doesn’t seem to verbalise how he feels well.

@Shookethtothecore

I've said the exact same thing. My son is the type to be calling child line at age 15 because he is grounded or somthing ridiculous. It's really hard work and parenting him is exhausting! I just hold on to the hope that it's a phase (albeit a long one) and he will grow out of it as he matures. 🤞

Well If you ever need to compare notes, drop me a message! I'm sorry that your feeling concerned but selfishly I'm also glad that I'm not alone with a difficult and clever 4 year old!!

@Orangeinmybluelightcup any book recommendations please?

@FawkesThePhoenix oh god not feeling alone already has helped massively.

I’m sure I’ll meet you one day either visiting them in prison or running their own successful companies 😂 could go either way with these headstrong ones

This is my stack... How to talk and 123 magic have been my staples. Playful parenting was very interesting actually. I haven't finished the rest.

@Orangeinmybluelightcup thank you. I’ll take a look- they sound helpful

**I’m sure I’ll meet you one day either visiting them in prison or running their own successful companies 😂 could go either way with these headstrong ones

@Shookethtothecore that did make me laugh

I've an 8, 6, 5 and 3 yr old. My 5 yr old is similar. She was the most difficult baby and still the trickiest child. She went through a phase of 'I hate my life. I want to kill myself' which horrified me. But in the end I put my foot down and gave her a bollocking for it and she stopped after trying it one last time with a glint in her eye and half smile. She always searches out negative reactions but I discovered she'd heard it on US kids sitcoms and liked how it made me react. She's a fantastic child in many ways but so complex in her emotions and needs. It's without doubt her personality. I think I will spend a lifetime keeping her happy and secure and trying to figure out the right reaction to her. But that's parenting! So OP, don't let him make you anxious. Try to let him be himself but don't let him move the bar on acceptable behaviour.

Hey OP, I think some of this sounds like it could be related to being the middle child - middle child syndrome.

Loosely, it’s about the eldest having a defined role that is steady and doesn’t change, and the youngest again always being the (slightly spoilt!) baby of her family, but the middle child not having a defined role and acting out for attention and reassurance.

My advice would be for both you and your husband separately to have 1:1 time with him each day. Maybe you find a hobby you both like (special to you both, not the other siblings). Maybe you read books together, just you both. Maybe they are your special helper when making dinner, always. The same for your husband. Help give him the confidence to know that he is loved and has attention from peers and teachers and parents because he is HIM, not because he need to hit to get it, or misbehave.

Of course, some of his behaviour will be general child naughtiness, and he’ll grow out of it. But at the moment it sounds like he isn’t adjusting to the world he lives in, and as a middle child, I thinking addressing this with love and attention now would go a long way.

Just wanted to write something about one particular aspect.

It occurs to me that you have not mentioned why he has been hitting siblings. Obviously it's not the best way to communicate his feelings but at the same time he is still at an impulsive age and in the heat of the moment it could be hard for him to find the right words. If possible, when it happens, find out what has upset him in the behaviour of the others and ask all/both of them to make changes.

The problem is then something that arose in the relationship amongst them rather than just him being 'bad' out of the blue. If he feels understood in why he is angry he is less likely to be so critical about himself and to feel he is the 'difficult' one.

This sounds like my DS1 - who is the firstborn. Especially saying he's stupid, that I don't like him as he I tell him off more (cos he does more naughty things), being VERY demanding of attention, endless energy, not sleeping and the hyperfocus on something (like the waking you to ask for a toy).

Aged 9 he was diagnosed with ADHD. He is on ritalin now which helps enormously for concentrating at school though he doesn't take it in the holidays.

I won't lie, it is hard. But his hyperfocus has led to an amazing encyclopedic knowledge of his passion of the day. He is definitely a fun child to be with - all that energy can be channelled when playing in the sea, doing sport with him etc.

Does he eat a lot? Thats one of our constant battles - the wanting to overeat (ADHD means less dopamine in their brains some of which they get from eating).

All behaviour is communication. It may be worth exploring undiagnosed special needs.
He sounds like my daughter was at that age and she is now diagnosed autistic.

Thank you all.

Yes the “middle child syndrome” did cross my mind. I only have one sibling so it’s not something I have experience of. Same with my husband.

He loves watering my flowers with me thats “his job” so I think your right, I will find something that is more frequent tho, we don’t need to water the flowers daily.

He lashes out for a million reasons. He will be playing in a room and if another sibling even walks on he attacks. He hates things that are unfair- so if the baby hits him he hits back and always has to have the last “hit”
He will wind up his siblings to the point they are in tears, steal favourite toys ect. Then hit them. He has hit in school when playing how’s too far- he doesn’t share well and can hit. It’s not just one hit aswell he attacks- I have to physically lift him off the other one he’s ferocious. I realise this is just his age and “normal” frustrations.
Also- if his siblings hit him back he will laugh at them and say “didn’t hurt- you can’t hurt me”
Oh also- if he is hurt, fallen over or something- he point blank refuses to let you help him or see. I’ve been up the school where he has tripped and his mouth is bleeding but he’s clamped it shut and refused to show anyone so I had to go up to try and help. He’s pulled stitches out of his own face 4 times that we had to keep going to get re stitched because he didn’t want them in.
He doesn’t like to be seen as in pain at all.

What sex are his siblings ?
Sorry if you’ve already said and I’ve not seen.

Adhd has been floated about. It has crossed my mind.

He would eat all day- crap especially. Chocolate and sweets. Obviously I don’t let him but he asks all day long

@DinosaurDiana one elder brother and one younger sister

Can I ask OP, when he gets something that he has been hyper focused on getting, does he actually play with it? Or does he almost immediately start wanting something else?

@TheYearOfSmallThings.

He will go through phases. With tv shows he will hyper focus on it and watch nothing but that show for weeks.

With stuff- toys mainly- he is obsessive for a few days then it’s something else. He doesn’t forget either, he will see a green car in a charity shop and go on and on and on and on about getting that green car. It will be that specific one.

Hi OP, I just wanted to say that I think your idea about a routine of a good chunk of regular alone time is a really good one. For so many issues with toddlers, I have found that a big part of the answer is "routine"! So just my two pennies.