Middle child saying things that concern me

[Shookethtothecore]

Hello. I have 3 children aged 10,4 and 2.
My middle son is a handful, but it’s some of the things he says that concern me.
I honestly think I discipline all of them the same, they all have the same house rules abs expectations, and they are pretty basic tbh.
My middle son tries to push more than the others, but he is headstrong and I love that about him, he does what he wants with such gusto for life it’s great to see.
However, he says stuff that concern me and I don’t know what to do. For example. He got told off for hitting his sibling, I talked to him once- said not to hit anyone it isn’t kind, he did it again, so I said “I’ve told you not to hit, it isn’t kind ect if you hit again you will have to come inside for a bit and not play” he hit again. So he came in and say with me for a few mins to calm down. He says things like “I’m stupid” “I’m such a stupid boy” I reassure him he ain’t stupid he just made a bad choice everyone makes bad choices ect and he will learn and grown like everyone else ect. But he repeats he is stupid.
He also says things like “your never on my side” when I say he can’t have things. Like chocolate for breakfast. I expect a 4yr old to kick off, but some of the things he says are so jarring. It seems manipulative sometimes because he puts himself down so much that we end up glossing over the things he’s done because I can’t bare to hear him say these things. He isn’t manipulative tho surely he’s 4?
Is this “normal” what can i do?

Keep an eye on him as he gets older with regard to ADHD. If it's there, it should be more diagnosable about 7/8. He's still pretty little now. This sounds like my kiddo who was always 'harder', and unfortunately absorbed that. Quality 121 time helps, but mostly knowing what's going on, and having appropriate support and meds did the trick. The years between 4-6 were the most difficult - he was absolutely hyper.

@InvincibleInvisibility how did the process start with your son’s diagnosis please?

We have a plan in place with the school next year as they have flagged him as needing extra emotional support. They can’t seem to get him to focus long enough on something for him to learn, but if he wants to do it he’s top of the class in it. The teacher said she has changed what they are writing about to engage him in a topic he likes and then he can focus a bit more.
She has blamed a lot of it on the pandemic and lack of school ect. At home I see it as being an issue longer than the pandemic

@InvincibleInvisibility

This sounds like my DS1 - who is the firstborn. Especially saying he's stupid, that I don't like him as he I tell him off more (cos he does more naughty things), being VERY demanding of attention, endless energy, not sleeping and the hyperfocus on something (like the waking you to ask for a toy).

Aged 9 he was diagnosed with ADHD. He is on ritalin now which helps enormously for concentrating at school though he doesn't take it in the holidays.

I won't lie, it is hard. But his hyperfocus has led to an amazing encyclopedic knowledge of his passion of the day. He is definitely a fun child to be with - all that energy can be channelled when playing in the sea, doing sport with him etc.

Does he eat a lot? Thats one of our constant battles - the wanting to overeat (ADHD means less dopamine in their brains some of which they get from eating).

See I was going to say maybe ADHD should be investigated too.

And the pulling out of his stitches makes me think it even further as there is some evidence to show that boys with adhd experience pain differently.

It's really tough being a middle child. The eldest is always a bit special because of having the highest level of maturity and responsibility. The youngest is always a bit special because of being the baby who needs to be protected and cared for and looked after by the two older ones.

But what comes through most in your post is that you seem to be expecting adult levels of rationality, logical thinking, self-understanding and self control - he is 4! He isn't going to be able to process your explanations and the nuances of the difference being being bad/stupid vs being someone who sometimes makes poor choices. What he needs is loads of active, demonstrative love, hugs and 1:1 attention.

@tintodeverano2 oh really! That is interesting. Honestly, he is like superhuman. Some of the knocks he’s had I think Christ he’s literally got no pain receptors

There was a thread recently where the DM was accused of saying a bad word and it was Stupid. Where is he learning the word stupid - has he picked it up from nursery and that it is an IMPORTANT word so gets a response from you?
"He also says things like “your never on my side” sounds like a quote from a US sitcom.

Sorry, the DM was accused by the child of saying a bad word, Stupid, he'd been taught at nursery it was a bad word to use.

@KihoBebiluPute I accept that. I will focus on that more. I think the panic and worry from some of the things he says is so jarring i over compensate and try to explain to him in a way he just ain’t grasping. I will scale it back and take on board what your saying

DS1 definitely does the watching the same show or film or episode over and over and over. At first we let him but had to stop once Ds2 was old enough to complain!

Our diagnosis was very unexpected. He gets migraines so i got his eyes tested. Doesnt need glasses but needed work on his eye muscles. The ortoptist thought he might be dyspraxic so we got him tested for that (he is). Those results indicated potential ADHD so we got him tested for that. End result = ADHD, dyspraxia and high IQ.

However we re in France so no idea how it works in the UK.

Oh and the black and white thinking/ everything has to be fair is apparently more linked to high IQ than ADHD according to DS's psychiatrist

I thought ADHD from your very first post. Black and white thinking is very typical of ASD as is watching the same show over and over but perhaps ADHD as well, I don't know as much about it as I do ASD. Poor impulse control and emotional regulation, poor sleep, constantly on the go, unable to focus for any length of time, not experiencing pain as you would expect, obsessive about certain things - I'd keep a note of everything (you will forget things otherwise even if you don't think you would), specific examples, things that happen at school etc as it will all help with getting a diagnosis.

He's very young though at only 4 at the mo and it might be difficult to get a diagnosis at that age - if I'd taken my son at 4 I don't think he'd have got his diagnosis of ASD because a lot could have just been put down to his age. I would try though because IMO saying he is stupid is him being able to already notice that he is different to other children and recognising himself that he can't manage himself in the way others can - but it's pretty bright to recognise that at 4 IMO. The problem is it could lead to very low self esteem which is very common in kids with ADHD, ASD, dyslexia etc. If he has a diagnosis and can understand himself and why he is the way he is and what he can do to make the things he struggles with easier it will hopefully really help his self esteem.

Structure and routine is brilliant for kids in general, really brilliant for kids with ASD and again, although I know less about it, I'd guess brilliant for kids with ADHD. Make sure you point out the things he is good at, he may be really quick at certain things, he may be very good at physical activities (I'd try and get him doing as many sporty things as poss to channel his energy positively). I'd also read up as many books as you can on how to parent a child with ADHD. When he says he's stupid, it sounds like you are saying all the right things but maybe you just need to change your tone from one of feeling sorry and bad/worried for him, to one of real calm, confidence. Keep it short and clear, no one is stupid, everyone has more to learn and then move on to a positive activity. I would also try to preempt what he can't cope with. What triggers him to lose it? Perhaps if he's hungry or maybe he can only cope with unstructured play for a short time, maybe once he's hit out he can't go back to the same activity even if he's calmed down a little - work out his limits and change the activity before it becomes a problem. xxx

Sounds very much like my Son at 4. He's now 9 and diagnosed adhd. So lots of emotional education with him. Help him to identify feelings. He may be latching into stupid because he doesn't know anxious, nervous, irritated etc.

More later