Foster child behaviour

[Nogodsnomasters]

I don't even know where to start with this tbh, I have a son who's 6 with ASD but goes to mainstream school and is on target academically. I also have a foster son who's 5 and is in mainstream school not diagnosed with anything but has a 1-1 in the classroom due to poor attention span, impulsive behaviour and hitting out etc.

Since living with us over a period of a 5 months it's obvious he's very behind academically and we suspect he may have dyslexia and ADHD, neither of which can be diagnosed until age 7 so he has two more years of just struggling on without a different learning format.

The main problem at home though is that not only does he tell a dreadful amount of lies, large ones and small ones, but he also "admits" to things he actually hasn't done or that happened differently and I'm finding discipline very difficult due to these two traits. I'll give an example...

My son's Pokémon ball ended up on the porch roof which I spotted from the bedroom window, I asked both children how it got there, my son said he didn't know, my foster son said he dropped it out the window! Being 5yrs old I gave him a lecture about staying away from the windows, safety etc (obviously we have child safety catches on them but still), so later in the day I relay this story to my husband who said that's not what happened, he was actually throwing it in the garden while I was cutting the grass and threw it so high it landed on the porch roof. Whereas things we know he has done (we've witnessed) he will lie about?

I just don't understand it, nor know what to do in these situations.

Any advice?

You May want to move this....it's in tattoos

Jesus that is not where I selected to put it. Stupid app! Thank you for pointing out

As a foster carer you should have access to a supervising social worker as well as the child's social worker. Please speak to them about this as they will be able to offer you support and advice that takes into account the child's specific circumstances and needs. It isn't fair on you or the child to ask people who do not have the full circumstances to provide a rationale for his behaviour when the child has likely experienced significant trauma that will need to be unpicked to help understand the reasons why he does certain things.

chad23 our foster child has lived with us for 5 months and we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh, I do believe it's more to do with age and development as in he may be behind cognitively possible or it may be a symptom of ADHD which the peaditrician agreed with our suspicion on this but as above can't be tested for or diagnosed until he's 7. We have discussed this with his social worker who is clueless to why he'd have this behaviour but has referred him to theurapetic play services but that won't be started til sept.

My problem is I tell my son off if he ever tells lies so I need the treatment to be the same for both children however the lies are so frequent and also sometimes as I say he's admitting to things he hasn't even done so then the discipline is uncalled for and I'm unaware!

Just wondered if anyone had similar situation maybe with a child already diagnosed with adhd or possibly mild learning difficulty?

At 5 I'd be reinforcing the difference between real and pretend. What actually happened? If he's delayed in other areas he might not understand properly, it's not about truth and lies?

our foster child has lived with us for 5 months and we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh

This is a really weird thing to say. The fact that this little boy has been moved at least once from one set of primary carers to another in the last year could easily contribute to a number of complex behaviours.

But even if that wasn't the case, surely the first step is still to speak to his social worker. As a child in care he should be prioritised for getting help and assessments.

But in general I would keep reassuring him that he is very much loved and that he doesn't need to lie, and make a fuss over him for lots of good behaviour.

Are you new to fostering? This sounds like completely normal behaviour for children who have come from traumatic and chaotic backgrounds. I agree you need to speak to his social worker and put a plan together for dealing with his behaviour which is consistent and therapeutic.

At 5 it's possible he can't remember what actually happened, and he's just telling you an explanation that he feels will satisfy you. It's why the police have to be careful questioning very young children.

we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh

I mean this respectfully, but I think you may need to reconsider this. Lying is usually a sign of insecurity - it’s testing boundaries to see where they are, what will happen if I say I did X naughty thing, will they still love me/punish me etc. He’s 5 and in foster care - he’s clearly had a traumatic time. He will have attachment issues, it’s inevitable.

Punishment for ‘lying’ would seem to be counter-productive in this scenario.

You can stress how important it is for everyone to tell the truth, that you’ll never be cross as long as they tell the truth. And mean it! Deal with the consequences of any actions/behaviour calmly as long as they’re both telling the truth.

But I agree with a PP that the play therapy and someone who is specialist trained and has the whole history is better placed to advise than us on here, really.

You can't treat a foster child who's been with you 5 months the same as a birth child. You and the social worker won't know everything about his past - its impossible. Extensive and continued lying isn't a normal development stage or asign of ADHD, its a sign of something that isn't right.

In this case on the face of it it looks like simple attention seeking behaviour (negative attention better than no attention) but the question would normally be why - as he's in a foster placement the answer is fairly obvious even without knowing his history - he is inevitably insecure about his place in the world and attachment to parental figures (not your fault, almost inevitable for a child who's been in the household only five months and has new parental figures).

The most recommended strategy would be constant positive attention when he isn't lying and very toned down, muted response to the lies. Given he's only 5, and a young five, this is probably all you need to do - but school need to too and it may take a long time for him to learn that he gets attention for simply being - being good or neutral - and that lying doesn't get him extra intense attention.

As you know telling off and punishment generally aren't particularly useful strategies either for ADHD or ASD (and arguably of pretty limited use with any child where there's an ongoing issue).

Hi @Nogodsnomasters it sounds very challenging. There’s actually a Fostering board on Mumsnet, that might be a good source of advice for you with this.

Here it is

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fostering

It's not fair on your foster child to insist he is treated a certain way just because that's how you treat your son. This isn't meeting his individual needs. Basic family rules yes. Reinforcement, consequences etc. No. These need to be individually tailored to what works for your foster child. Not you. Or your other child. Surely all this is covered within fostering training??

I’m not being helpful here I know but I’m a little surprised that a parent with a very young child with ASD would foster another very young child with a difficult background. The foster child at least needs so much input. For example if you suspect that he has dyslexia and/or ADHD but can’t receive a formal diagnosis for another 2 years, surely what he needs is for someone to take the time to educate themselves thoroughly on these conditions and begin to help him 1:1 at home. Not just wait the 2 years during which a lot more damage will be done.
Yes I know I’m being unhelpful and I know foster placements are in short supply.

I suspect that this is an extended family foster placement is it?

@CosyAcorn

our foster child has lived with us for 5 months and we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh

This is a really weird thing to say. The fact that this little boy has been moved at least once from one set of primary carers to another in the last year could easily contribute to a number of complex behaviours.

But even if that wasn't the case, surely the first step is still to speak to his social worker. As a child in care he should be prioritised for getting help and assessments.

But in general I would keep reassuring him that he is very much loved and that he doesn't need to lie, and make a fuss over him for lots of good behaviour.

Totally agree. Really recommend Therapeutic parenting Facebook group for specific advice about your foster son.

@WisestIsShe

At 5 I'd be reinforcing the difference between real and pretend. What actually happened? If he's delayed in other areas he might not understand properly, it's not about truth and lies?

This may be the issue thank you for pointing that out, as we know younger children (2/3yrs old) struggle with the difference between reality and pretend so if he's behind cognitively then this could be what happening even at his age.

@CosyAcorn

our foster child has lived with us for 5 months and we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh

This is a really weird thing to say. The fact that this little boy has been moved at least once from one set of primary carers to another in the last year could easily contribute to a number of complex behaviours.

But even if that wasn't the case, surely the first step is still to speak to his social worker. As a child in care he should be prioritised for getting help and assessments.

But in general I would keep reassuring him that he is very much loved and that he doesn't need to lie, and make a fuss over him for lots of good behaviour.

I don't think it's a weird thing to say, certain traumas would result In telling lies and some wouldn't, to me that's obvious. And as stated in my first reply to this thread we HAVE discussed this with his social worker and I wrote what we were told.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

I suspect that this is an extended family foster placement is it?

No it isn't.

OP you are very fixed in your assumption that he is cognitively behind. It’s far too early to put a definitive label on his set of needs. He’s in foster care. He will have experienced trauma. The issues sound more like how he is adapting to his new home with a child so close in age, also with additional needs. What does his SW/your SW say? Parenting a traumatised child needs a very different set of skills than the ‘standard approach’.

@Coronawireless

I’m not being helpful here I know but I’m a little surprised that a parent with a very young child with ASD would foster another very young child with a difficult background. The foster child at least needs so much input. For example if you suspect that he has dyslexia and/or ADHD but can’t receive a formal diagnosis for another 2 years, surely what he needs is for someone to take the time to educate themselves thoroughly on these conditions and begin to help him 1:1 at home. Not just wait the 2 years during which a lot more damage will be done. Yes I know I’m being unhelpful and I know foster placements are in short supply.

Yeah you are being unhelpful actually. During our assessment and approval we were told by our supervising social worker that we'd be perfect to help another child with asd or similar because we already understand parenting a child with these issues and have a well established routine to promote predictability and stability in a child's life, unfortunately when the children are diagnosed with ASD there is very little help and support out there, my son was diagnosed almost 4 yrs ago and we've had 2 one day training courses and a check in phone call, so regardless of our foster son not being diagnosed the help we'd get would be minimal as the resources are not there! We've worked extremely hard over the last 5 months to help him catch up with his learning, it was my husband and I who were the first to point out the potential dyslexia and discuss this with the school as it hadn't been picked up on at all by the teacher! You don't need to be a professional to give a child a good home, foster carers do their best with what little support they're given.

@CliffsofMohair

OP you are very fixed in your assumption that he is cognitively behind. It’s far too early to put a definitive label on his set of needs. He’s in foster care. He will have experienced trauma. The issues sound more like how he is adapting to his new home with a child so close in age, also with additional needs. What does his SW/your SW say? Parenting a traumatised child needs a very different set of skills than the ‘standard approach’.

He was assessed by an educational psychologist at school last year which is why he has a classroom 1-1 and they mentioned in his statement that they believed he could have a learning delay but at the start of year one it was too soon to tell, so I'm not plucking this out of nowhere. I know what stage cognitively a 5 year old should generally be at in terms of awareness and understanding and following direction etc and he's not there at all. And my son being close in age is neither here nor there as our foster son has two siblings aged 3 and 2 years old so he is familiar with being around close aged children hence why we were considered a good placement so he didn't go to being in an only-child environment.

@Dontfuckingsaycheese

It's not fair on your foster child to insist he is treated a certain way just because that's how you treat your son. This isn't meeting his individual needs. Basic family rules yes. Reinforcement, consequences etc. No. These need to be individually tailored to what works for your foster child. Not you. Or your other child. Surely all this is covered within fostering training??

Wow, you all have a lot of assumptions as to what foster carers are trained to do and those assumptions are wrong. Were taught to treat the children with the same household rules in terms of right and wrong behaviour based on their age so with my son being only 18 months older then the same method would be she appropriate.

Age appropriate**.

I've tried my best to respond to everyone here. I asked for help and advice from someone who has been in similar situation with potential ADHD or mild learning difficulty and bar one person no one have given any insightful advice, just critised me based on assumptions that are completely untrue. It's easy to think you understand fostering when you've never had the training or went through the year long assessment or dealt with social workers etc but unfortunately it's not what you all appear to think it should be.

@NoSquirrels

we're fully aware of the circumstances in which he came from in his background, and none of it would relate to this behaviour tbh

I mean this respectfully, but I think you may need to reconsider this. Lying is usually a sign of insecurity - it’s testing boundaries to see where they are, what will happen if I say I did X naughty thing, will they still love me/punish me etc. He’s 5 and in foster care - he’s clearly had a traumatic time. He will have attachment issues, it’s inevitable.

Punishment for ‘lying’ would seem to be counter-productive in this scenario.

You can stress how important it is for everyone to tell the truth, that you’ll never be cross as long as they tell the truth. And mean it! Deal with the consequences of any actions/behaviour calmly as long as they’re both telling the truth.

But I agree with a PP that the play therapy and someone who is specialist trained and has the whole history is better placed to advise than us on here, really.

Thank you, I based my opinion on the discussion I had with the social worker who also agreed she could see no part of his past that would result in frequent lying or false admittance. We have massively positively promoted truth telling, we've explained that he'll never be in trouble for telling the truth and we've also shown it by praise with both him and my son (in front of him) to reinforce we mean it, but it's almost like he doesn't remember? He responds well to the praise and then a day later lies again. When calmly asked why he's told a lie he replies "I don't know" so we're not able to find a reason from him either so we've stopped asking.

I hope the theurapetic play services in sept can help with this behaviour but I just posted here to see if anyone had any similar problems so we could try some different tactics over the next two months as what we're doing at the minute seems to have no impact.