Dd8 won’t wipe herself and still having accidents

[RinderTinderNotRinderGrinder]

Dd is a capable girl with no known LD, though there is autism in the family and I’m not ruling out sensory issues.

She knows she needs to wipe herself after using the loo but she doesn’t. It’s really horrible, she often smells and even after bouts of soreness and thrush she isn’t doing it.

When we’ve discussed it she promises to do it in the future but the only way to make sure she does is to actually stand over her. She continues not to do it at school and ends up sore anyway.

Rationally she knows she should so I don’t know how else to appeal to her. She does still occasionally have accidents too and wets the bed at times. She also hates flushing the loo. She is otherwise a really happy 8 year old but clearly has issues around toileting.

All advice very gratefully received TIA

When you have had a chance to speak to her about it, calmly, has she given any reasons for not doing this?

Does she manage her hygiene appropriately and independently in other areas eg. hand washing after using the toilet/before meals, brushing teeth, bathing her body and hair?

We always discuss it calmly and she says she doesn’t know why she doesn’t do it.

She’s reluctant with all hygiene issues, but will do them (just always needs reminders). She likes having a bath and brushing her hair.

That wasn’t very clear! Sorry. She is reluctant to wash hands and brush her teeth.

When she wets herself occasionally it is usually a case of being too engrossed in something and leaving it too late, or overnight not getting to the loo in time.

I still wiped for one of mine until they were almost 10. He is autistic. We went at his pace and one day he just started to manage himself.

Just wondering if you have tried wet wipes rather than loo roll? Might it be a sensory issue in that she doesn't like the texture and/ or feeling of dry paper when wiping?

Wet wipes is a good idea. Certainly worth a try. She doesn’t want us to help, but it’s looking like we’re going to have to for the foreseeable

Agree with @7catsisnotenough

I know a child that was very much like this. Wet wipes changed the situation immensely!

Some wet wipes can be highly fragranced. I’ve found the Lidl ones in the pink packet to be fairly inoffensive.

Just check what can and can’t go down the toilet or you’ll have an expensive plumber’s bill!

Agree with PP - wet wipes (either shop bought or reusable cloth ones, if you can handle the washing/management of those).

I'm wondering what you find to be more effective in incentivising and encouraging her to form a habit?

Is she too mature for reward charts etc for remembering to wipe, brush teeth, use the loo before bedtime?

DS is the same. I'm not too worried about it to be honest. I don't think I'll still be wiping his bum when he's at secondary school. Just going to let him get there in his own time.

Dd8 is similar. It's not so bad we've had soreness or infection as she usually does give it a go just not properly but maybe it would be better if she had so she'd see a consequence. I honestly think she's just in too much of a hurry and things like wiping, teeth brushing and hand washing are effort, inconvenient, boring and get in the way of fun where as baths are enjoyable and at a time she's not playing with friends etc. Sadly I don't have an answer for you except bribery but isn't particularly helpful for us. Doesn't help the germ talk is proven wrong to her by the fact she's rarely ill and never to this day been sick or had a tummy bug.

OP, does she always have issues with this, or are there times when she's a bit more aware of her hygiene?

Since you've mentioned there may be a neurodivergence/sensory processing component to this, I wonder if it might be related to her executive functioning and/or vagus nerve. If she does have issues around exec functioning, sometimes straining on the loo (or other stress) can cause a temporary impairment in a person's ability to manage all sorts of things, from remembering to do things, motivation, interoception (interpreting bodily signals accurately), organisation, motor skills, curbing overthinking and anxiety, etc.

Plus, the fact that you say she has accidents because she's too engrossed in other activities sounds familiar to me - my DC (now teens) have ADHD and ASD, and they had similar issues at that age around both sensing when they needed the toilet and in switching tasks to actually go to the loo. It was never as simple as "receive signal, go to toilet, clean up" for them. Plus, rewards didn't work to motivate them as it wasn't that they didn't want to do the right thing (their toileting issues were a huge source of frustration, stress and shame for them, especially around school) - they were simply perplexed by the whole thing, their brain wasn't receiving the right messages and then their exec dysfunction meant that it wasn't handling messages in an appropriate way anyway.

If, looking at the bigger picture, you think that she might have ASD/ADHD/sensory processing disorder or similar, I would speak to your GP and ask them to refer her to CAMHS for assessment/support. There will be a long wait, but there are plenty of things you can try to improve her exec functioning (diet, exercise, sleep, routine, etc) in the meantime that might help with toileting - everyone is different, so it's a case of trial and error even with psychologists and other professionals involved.

Also, this sounds a bit silly but have you tried different types of toilet papers? My DD wasn't aware that there were different options at that age as toilet paper was just toilet paper and I just bought the same kind every week, but now she's a teen and has more life/toilet roll experience from hotels, etc, she refuses to use anything other than a mildly quilted aloe vera one as it's the only one that doesn't feel like she's wiping her bum with sandpaper! When she doesn't have that, she will have a bath after every bowel movement as it makes her feel sick to use the other textures of loo paper.

Another option is one of those plastic bidet bowls that fit over the toilet so she could clean herself with soap and water afterwards, but DD was absolutely horrified when I suggested this to her!

Thank you everyone. I’m taking it all on board. We’re going to have a go with different wipe options and she does respond well to rewards so that might help.

Very interesting about the executive function possibilities too - that’s something I hadn’t considered.

I’m so glad I asked, I feel a lot better about it all. Thank you!

My ASD daughter is like this, she's 14.
One of the assessments we had showed that her proprioception development was not great which is about how the person interprets where other parts of the body are when they can't see it.
She might be struggling to physically clean herself when she can't see.

You can buy sprays that turn ordinary loo roll into wipes. Much kinder to the environment and ones arse.

You can buy flushable wet water wipes, we get them from complete care shop, they come in a blue packet.

Kandoo wipes!!

Please don't buy flushable wipes. They aren't.

@DogsSausages

You can buy flushable wet water wipes, we get them from complete care shop, they come in a blue packet.

the water companies/councils and plumbers all state that there is no such thing. nothing more than a moderate amount of toilet paper and human waste should go in a toilet. there is a big problem with drains/sewers getting blocked. even the type of toilet paper used can make a difference. if using wipes, and for any other items, have a small waste bin by the loo.

www.clearfirst.co.uk/resources/what-not-to-put-down-drains/

Thanks alexdr8, they shouldnt be allowed to sell them if that's true, the packet says you can flush them one at a time. We rarely use them, our family member has a quick shower spray instead now. You can get a small toilet shower spray installed quite easily. I guess even if you use normal wetwipes they still get put into a plastic bag.

We didn't get on well with the sprays that moisten toilet paper. The nozzle needed to be pointing the right way, sometimes the paper would rip, the lid would fall into the toilet etc. Too much coordination required!

We have a packet of moist toilet wipes by the loo and they go into the bin (emptied regularly before anyone faints in horror!!)

Wet wiping helped my DS loads so it's definitely worth a go.

Hi, just wanted to recommend a cleansing foam as opposed to wipes. I use one called clinisan for my DS. Its available on Amazon and I've seen it in chemists too.

@LonginesPrime post above is excellent, I would echo what she's said.

This is something the school nursing service can help with. Its not that uncommon . If you can't find their details on google the school will be able to provide.

I bought myself a little portable squirty bidet during the first lock down and I’ve continued to use it ever since. As someone with ibs it’s been great and really helps with keeping clean. Maybe that or an actual bidet attachment might help at home?