Newborn car seat anxiety - health visitor freaked me out

[JoannaStayton]

Hello

We have a 5 week old baby - first one, fair to say I'm pretty anxious about it all. The health visitor came and mentioned that using a car seat can be dangerous as the babies head can flop forward and they can stop breathing. She recommended someone sit in the back with the baby to watch them. Has anyone else heard this?

I was planning to visit my Mum (recently widowed, in our support bubble) on a fairly regular basis, that's a 2.5 hour journey one way. Obviously can stop off once or twice if needs be but even with a mirror I won't in the back really be able to tell how the baby is whilst driving on my own. How do people deal with this? Is it just when they're really little that it's an issue? I have read somewhere that car seats are only dangerous for asphyxiation when not in the car as the angle is different, not sure if any basis for that though. Our car seat is fixed (Joie i-Spin 360) - not one that gets taken out of the car.

If anyone has any advice that would be greatly appreciated, feeling quite bleak about the next few months knowing travel could be a problem for us.

I think the guidance is 30min journeys until they're 3 months?

I'm due in December and this is what we've been told - 30 minutes until they are 3 months, then an hour but with a stop at 30 minutes. The midwife did say that if longer journeys were unavoidable, they were okay occasionally, but someone should sit in the back with baby.

30mins until 3 months I'd be looking for the science behind that, that seems a very short period of time.

Hi @JoannaStayton, I did a lot of research on this and have the same car seat! It’s not about the head tilting, it’s the posture in a car seat affects their breathing and blood oxygenation - so even if someone was with them, they shouldn’t be in a car seat for long.

I found this article helpful. www.madeformums.com/news/newborn-safety-in-car-seats/

www.madeformums.com/news/the-2-hour-car-seat-rule-what-you-need-to-know/

Won’t post too many links, but essentially maximum 30 minutes a day the first four weeks of their life, and maximum 2 hours a day for the first three months. There’s no published hard and fast rules though, because it hasn’t been thoroughly investigated and controlled, and probably never will be as can’t do it ethically with babies. But they do know the posture means less oxygen in their blood.

We travelled when both DD’s were 8 weeks to see family 5 hours away. We stopped every 2 hours for 30 minutes at a time (or longer). Long journeys were easy with them as babies. They just slept. We travelled a lot. Travelling between 18months - 2.5 years was exhausting. Lot of whinging & boredom. Naps were shorter. Also potty training thrush in at one point. From 2.5 onwards, elder DD just watches her iPad quietly. All good! She’s 4 now & travels happily.

We travel a lot (covid permitting). No need to stop doing so because of children.. just take regular breaks!

OP, I'm a solicitor with 30 years experience specialising in catastrophic personal injury, dealing primarily with large loss caused by road traffic incidents. Please please please do not put your new born baby in the front seat. Even without the air bag turned off, a baby is significantly safer in the rear of the car. I have been involved with SO many claims arising from infant carriers in the front seats of cars and they almost always result in loss of life or significantly life altering implications.

There is some very dangerous advice on this thread, but you must never put an infant carrier in the front of the car, especially when you have rear seats available. A correctly fitted car seat and frequent stops, with a securely fastened mirror will be all you need for a safe journey.

@hownowbrowncowz thank you so much for posting that - having been in a head on collision with my 2 year old dd when she was in the back rear facing that post really worried me. We both survived. I had physio for a year for my minor injuries.

My dp had to go and get my bag etc from the boot before it was scrapped and he said he felt physically sick when he saw the front of the car. I dread to think what would have happened had dd been in the front.

She literally only had a tiny scratch on her nose where a piece of the front dash broke off at impact and flew into her face.

We were so so lucky

No way would I be doing that journey alone any time soon. I'd have someone in the back or wait until baby is older. If you're on the motorway and baby's head flops forward, what will you do? Not worth it.

Do not put your baby in the front passenger seat. This is stupid and dangerous advice.

I'm a pretty relaxed parent and I wouldn't travel solo with a new baby especially on roads when you can't stop unless it's completely unavoidable. Nothing worse than seeing your babies head flop forward in the mirror and not being able to do anything about it.

And I wouldn't ever put a baby on the front seat, so distracting.

@drpet49

Do not put your baby in the front passenger seat. This is stupid and dangerous advice.

Not stupid or dangerous advice at all. A rear facing car seat fitted properly with air bag turned off is a perfect toy safe option (and is actually the preferred option in Sweden which are miles ahead with car seat safety)

@1940s honestly if you saw our car after the collision you might have a different view

It was a head on

Am I the only one worried about having a mirror for the driver to constantly check on the baby? Surely not paying attention to driving is a bigger concern here? How do you manage to check on the baby and concentrate on the road - it can hardly be a quick glance to make sure baby is ok.

@Foxhasbigsocks

It was a head on

It may well have been but to say putting a car seat in the front is dangerous advice is wrong. The front seat is a perfectly safe and adequate place for a baby seat. The optimum seat (if the car allows) is the middle seat but all seats are safe fir a baby seat. Your one experience of a crash does not negate that

@singsingbluesilver

Am I the only one worried about having a mirror for the driver to constantly check on the baby? Surely not paying attention to driving is a bigger concern here? How do you manage to check on the baby and concentrate on the road - it can hardly be a quick glance to make sure baby is ok.

That's why you don't rely on baby mirrors to keep checking baby is breathing. I use my baby mirror to see if baby has dozed off or just to glance at. I can also chit chat to her when in traffic or at standstill which keeps her happier

The front seat issue is immaterial as OP has an isofix car seat which likely can't even be fitted in the front seat.

I was led to understand it is one of the strongest positions in the car because the front pillars will be reinforced and crumple zones etc absorb force before it gets to the front passengers. So you'll often see that the front of the car where the engine is looks like a crushed can but the space where the passenger/driver is should be intact (unless you have an older car). Of course the trade off is that the back seat will be further away from the point of impact in a head on collision. The biggest danger is airbags, which are really dangerous for children and should never be used behind a rear facing car seat, it is actually illegal to fit a rear facing seat where you have an active airbag, that's how dangerous it is.

If you do see that baby's head has flopped forwards - DO NOT PANIC. It's not an emergency situation. It's something you'll want to remedy ASAP, but it's really not life and death, it's not worth stopping unsafely for and if it takes 10-15 minutes to find somewhere to come off the road to stop, this is absolutely fine. It would be much more dangerous to try and adjust their head while you're driving. They are not going to suffocate just by spending a few minutes in this position, even if they are only five weeks old.

It also tends to happen when you're going up hill, not randomly in the middle of a motorway. And if your car seat is very upright and/or adjusted incorrectly, then you'll notice it happening a lot. If it's never happened then it's not likely to suddenly start happening just because you're on a long drive on your own.

Whether or not the mirror is a distraction vs the baby screaming being a distraction is just a personal decision you need to weigh up - one of the parts of travelling with young children really. Certainly you can't rely on the mirror to check whether they are breathing, but for a quick glance to see if they are awake/asleep/head in good position then it's OK, and lots of parents find that this is enough reassurance that they can keep their attention on the road.

Time limits should be adhered to whether the baby is in a good position or not because you cannot always tell - it's just a good idea to give them a break every so often.

@BertieBotts thank god for some sensible advice.

If you plan to travel a lot; it might be worth looking into a lie flat baby carrier for the first 6 months, then switch to the 360. Yes it’s more money but also peace of mind. The Joie I level is almost like flat. You still need to take regular break etc but it helps.

The formal advice is no longer than 2 hours in a car seat

Personally I wouldn't have travelled with a 5 week old on my own in the car (but I had a c section with DD so it was 6 weeks before she went in the car)

If you must go then have the front air bag turned off and seat in front so you can keep an eye - you can either do yourself or you'll need to take to a garage ( but then it will be dangerous for an adult passenger if they then travel in the car afterwards with no air bag)

There was a tragic case in the last couple of months that made the news of a newborn suffocating in a car seat - I would only make journeys of that duration when they are that young if it was absolutely necessary

@1940s you are wrong. It is significantly less safe to put an infant carrier in the passenger seat and therefore advising OP to do so is stupid.

I'm not wrong as @BertieBotts has stated. The front seat is not significantly less safe for a properly fitted rear facing car seat with airbag turned off. Sweden does this as standard and is far ahead in terms of road safety and car seat advice

I had my dd on the front passenger seat attached with isofix.

We did long journeys when she was that sort of age. Stopped every 60mins or so for a quick stretch and nappy change

@1940s as a solicitor with 30years experience who has represented multiple families whose lives have been significantly affected by collisions where an infant is in the front seat, I am telling you that you are wrong.
Anyone who wants to put a child in an infant carrier in the front seat when the advice is to travel them in the rear of the car is quite honestly negligent as far as I am concerned. Please see my original post on the matter. I'm not a member of the public with an opinion, I actually work these cases. They are tragic and unnecessary.

Would be interested to know why it's more dangerous in the front if airbags are off. Is that for all passengers, or only infant carriers? Why infant carriers? What about forward facing child seats?

I am not having a go, I am wanting to understand the reasons why as I will update what advice I give out if it makes sense. It just seems to run counter to what I've been told previously.

I do understand the airbag danger. Your post earlier was a bit unclear about whether the issue is airbag related, but I think there was a typo in it.

The front of a car is more likely to be impacted in a crash.

The safest seat in a car is the middle of the back seat. The next safest is behind the passenger seat. As the passenger side is less likely to be hit than the drivers side.