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Newborn car seat anxiety - health visitor freaked me out

92 replies

JoannaStayton · 16/06/2021 22:58

Hello

We have a 5 week old baby - first one, fair to say I'm pretty anxious about it all. The health visitor came and mentioned that using a car seat can be dangerous as the babies head can flop forward and they can stop breathing. She recommended someone sit in the back with the baby to watch them. Has anyone else heard this?

I was planning to visit my Mum (recently widowed, in our support bubble) on a fairly regular basis, that's a 2.5 hour journey one way. Obviously can stop off once or twice if needs be but even with a mirror I won't in the back really be able to tell how the baby is whilst driving on my own. How do people deal with this? Is it just when they're really little that it's an issue? I have read somewhere that car seats are only dangerous for asphyxiation when not in the car as the angle is different, not sure if any basis for that though. Our car seat is fixed (Joie i-Spin 360) - not one that gets taken out of the car.

If anyone has any advice that would be greatly appreciated, feeling quite bleak about the next few months knowing travel could be a problem for us.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
BertieBotts · 17/06/2021 07:18

Here is my source backing up the 4 week milestone - it would be useful if people posting specific ages could also share where they are getting this info from. I think sometimes with baby stuff it turns into Chinese whispers where you have heard something and pass it on but I think for safety stuff it's important to have the facts behind you.

www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-37947841

And for older babjes:
www.leedsth.nhs.uk/a-z-of-services/leeds-maternity-care/news/2017/08/18/useful-advice-on-baby-seats

Foxhasbigsocks · 17/06/2021 07:18

I have my whole family a long way away too op so I get how it feels but I wanted to put baby’s safety first so we just waited a few weeks before doing any really long journeys

recreationalcalpol · 17/06/2021 07:21

I wouldn’t put a newborn in a Joie 360 tbh, and was advised the same by the In Car Safety Centre, because of the risk of head flop. Better to use a newborn seat that lies at a flatter angle (I have a Joie I level that lies almost flat) and then progress to the 360 (which is an excellent seat) when the newborn seat is outgrown.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

7catsisnotenough · 17/06/2021 07:21

Hi OP, when my DCs were babies there were inserts for car seats, kind of a padded upside down "u" shape, that supported them around the head area. Not sure if they are still available or even recommended now but might be worth looking into? Try to enjoy little one, it's scary with your first 💐

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 17/06/2021 07:22

We drove from Hanover to London with a four month old. Guidance then was five minutes breaks every two hours. I know it's shorter now for newborns.

Babies in the front can be a massive distraction for the driver. Obviously crying baby in back is bad... But you pull over to deal with it. In the front the temptation is there to find the dummy, sooth them, look at them etc. Which can cause accidents.

RosesAndHellebores · 17/06/2021 07:24

Crikey. I can't imagine how mine survived to their mid 20s.

Thank goodness for BertieBotts.

MotherOfCrocodiles · 17/06/2021 07:25

I think the advice not to leave babies in car seats for a long time is partly aimed at stopping people keeping them in a car seat travel system pram thing all day long

I'm sure there is a small risk but babies are not dying left right and centre from riding in the car. Get a mirror or put them on the front seat with the airbag off, take some breaks, it will be ok.

You could end up living a very restricted life otherwise.

Crowsaregreat · 17/06/2021 07:26

Honestly, what with worrying about breathing or the risk of her screaming all the way (distressed baby passengers make driving awful for everyone), I'd put off driving that far for a bit. Cd you get a train instead, or DM pick you up?

cocoloco987 · 17/06/2021 07:29

Should never do what @PixieDust28 ?

sandgrown · 17/06/2021 07:32

Before the guidance changed I did many journeys with my baby son as my family live away. He was fine . We just took regular breaks and took him out of the seat for a stretch and to feed .He was fine and slept like a dream in the car .It was easier with his seat on the front seat . Get a mirror if it helps but remember to keep your eye on the road .

Garman · 17/06/2021 07:34

I love these people saying they would never do this journey without someone else with you! Did you consider that sometimes people don't have someone else able to come with them for the trip? My DH had to work so I drove 3 hours home to my mum's (longer with stops for small baby obv) so that we could stay there for couple of weeks and all of my family could meet the baby. Did it at 3 weeks with dc2, with just 2 year old dc1 in the car with me too.

ladyvimes · 17/06/2021 07:35

They’ll be absolutely fine! If it’s a 2.5 hour journey plan to stop halfway so baby can have a stretch.

BertieBotts · 17/06/2021 07:40

IME the Joie 360 is one of the better fixed seats for newborns.

Of course the in car safety centre won't pass up the opportunity to sell you another £200 car seat in addition though!

IME it's very obvious if it doesn't work well in your car for a newborn. You wouldn't have got to 5 weeks and not noticed a problem.

MerryDecembermas · 17/06/2021 07:40

I wouldn't be driving that long with that young a baby. The risks aren't worth it to me. Your mum should get on a train if she can't drive.

lovescaca · 17/06/2021 07:40

In wouldn't drive that far with a new born

Screwcorona · 17/06/2021 07:40

I was really anxious about this with mh first and bought a snuza hero. It's a thing that clips on their nappy and sounds an alarm if the breathing motion from their tummy stops

Also took millions of breaks

Fightingfirewithfire · 17/06/2021 07:50

Follow the lullaby trust website information.
Use a mirror and look regularly for head slumping.

Tbh the same applies for any journey, even if it's only 10 mins long as head slumping could occur then, my kids would often be out like a light as soon as the car started.

The only thing you need to consider is how easy it is to pull over on your journey. If it's motorway it's not as quick as pulling in the side of the road. Even if your baby was in the front seat with you as some have suggested, trying to steer and adjust a babies head in the car seat at the same time is not the best idea, so you would have to pull over anyway.

puddleduck234 · 17/06/2021 07:55

We had the same problem OP, we had no choice but to take long journeys with a new born. We bought the maxi cosi Jade carry cot (which is also iso fix) and it was worth every penny to not stop constantly when making the big drives. The baby loved it but it does only last 6 months so is a luxury rather than a necessity.

https://www.maxi-cosi.co.uk/pushchairs/jade?gclid=CjwKCAjwwqaGBhBKEiwAMk-FtKQi9Fqpabw9-WIMbga246tklyJb7jqu6h6ZF3Aby997G0fmJQaDxoCKIUQAvDD_BwE

HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur · 17/06/2021 07:57

We had a Jane isofix matrix that was amazing as it could lie flat, which was great. Also, it is perfectly safe to have the seat in the front if you can fix it safely rear facing and turn the air bag off. You will be fine with a couple of stops Smile

ThatWouldBeEnough · 17/06/2021 08:13

I seem to be the only one more concerned about parents concentrating on driving rather than on baby.

I had never heard of this issue, so googled a bit to find out if it was true! When mine (now 10&7) we’re little the risk was thought to be damage to their spine rather than asphyxiation.

Admittedly I have only spent about 15 mins, but most articles seem to be about risk to sleeping in car seats when not travelling rather than when being used for their intended purpose.

Even lullaby trust admit that their advice is not based on research/evidence.

Do the drive but stop regularly. Get the train if you’re concentrating on baby more than the road.

www.lullabytrust.org.uk/safer-sleep-advice/car-seats-and-sids/

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.heart.co.uk/lifestyle/parenting/baby-sleep-car-seat-suffocate/

BertieBotts · 17/06/2021 09:50

It was always positional asphyxiation - the spine/back concern was more to do with travel systems being used in place of a proper pram, which is another no-no (but not actually life threatening).

Also have a 12yo - so remember this coming out initially! The concern for a while was over "bag slings" - you may remember this if you have a 10yo although it went away very quickly once they were banned, and the focus went onto car seat time. Then a couple of years ago there was the Fisher Price Rock n Play scandal in America which was positional asphyxiation again.

These are two different concerns although they are often conflated. The breathing position is something that builds up over an unbroken stretch in any device which is too upright or can encourage too much of a chin on chest position. Car seats do unfortunately need to be this upright for crash safety. The lie-flat ones don't perform as well for safety and are therefore only recommended for premature babies or infants with breathing difficulty for whom the oxygen desaturation risk is much higher than the risk of being involved in a crash. This is not the majority of newborns, and certainly not healthy, full term newborns over 4 weeks old. They are not in danger with their breathing unless you're using the car seat for really extended periods, they are much more vulnerable to crash forces.

The risk is not that the baby will stop breathing. That's not the problem. The problem is that if you're trying to get air and your chin is on your chest, it's like breathing through a kinked straw - hardly any air can get in. Try it.

If you're a healthy adult, older child, etc or even a newborn lying totally unrestrained in a flat cot, then what would happen is if you're getting into breathing difficulty because of this extra effort needed to draw air in, you will instinctively move. You know how toddlers fall asleep in all sorts of ridiculous positions, and it isn't a problem. They move if their body signals that they are becoming uncomfortable or something like blood/oxygen flow is restricted. The problem with car seats is that they have to be in a pretty tightly restricted position in order that the car seat can do its job properly in a crash. That means that babies and toddlers can't necessarily reposition themselves if they are in a position which isn't ideal. That can lead to them being stuck in a position where they're not able to draw in enough oxygen. In rare cases, that happens for long enough that oxygen desaturation occurs. It's not instant, it happens over time. A breathing monitor is not really much use here because to stop breathing due to a reduced oxygen saturation level is so far past the point of danger you aren't likely to be able to do much. An oxygen saturation meter would be a more useful monitoring device, but these aren't easily available for home use I don't think. There's Owlet, but it's not cheap. But in any case, it isn't really required because as long as you make sure to interrupt any long stretches in the car seat, your baby won't ever get to a dangerous level of oxygen desaturation, even if they do get into a position where their airway is compromised. They only need to be out of the seat for a couple of minutes in order to readjust position.

Different countries set the guidance differently. UK goes with total time limit in the seat counted from when they go into the seat to when you take them out, regardless of whether it's in the car, on the pushchair, on the floor, being carried. Other countries where people routinely travel longer distances by car emphasise the importance of not using the car seat as a sleeping space outside of a car. Either approach works as they both help you avoid the same scenario - the scenario (usually in a carry type seat) is that the parents drive somewhere and when they arrive, the baby is asleep so they decide to leave the baby in the seat. Or perhaps they run a short errand and the baby sleeps/is in the seat the whole time, and then when they arrive home the baby is asleep, so they decide to leave them in the seat. This time in the car seat all adds up and can cause the baby to cumulatively be in the seat for several hours. If you look at the cases where babies have died or got into difficulty it tends to either be a scenario like this, or it's where the seat has been used as a regular nap spot or overnight sleeping spot. In fact, the fixed seats that stay in the car are less of a problem because you tend not to leave them in the seat unless you're actually driving. Maybe occasionally to finish a nap after a drive. But not nearly as often as you do with a carry seat (I've had both!)

Concern about spine development is not car seat specific but is more about babies being moved between objects which seat them in an unnatural position and cause them to be restricted from moving naturally - they need some time to stretch out and move their bodies in an unrestrained way, e.g. in arms, on the floor, in a playpen/cot, and later sit normally rather than being forced into a sitting position by something like a Bumbo. A one off long journey won't matter for things like that, it's more day to day habits.

1940s · 17/06/2021 11:24

I was waiting on the wonderful @BertieBotts with excellent car seat advice

Poppy709 · 17/06/2021 11:39

You’ve had lots of good advice about the car seat but just to say the snuza hero alarms are not recommended for use in car seats, the vibration and movement of the car can be picked up as breathing.

Lockdownbear · 17/06/2021 12:37

I'd agree with @BertieBotts it was always the breathing that was the concern. I remember coming across the concerns when pregnant 11 years ago.
I chose my carseat a Maxi Coxi Pebble as it had better rating than the Carbiofix for breathing.

However Op I'd still take the journey and stop half way for a decent break. I did similar 2.5 hour journey became 3.5 hours but sometimes needs must.

QuestionableMouse · 17/06/2021 12:40

@Fyredraca

If you can turn off the passenger side airbag have the baby in the front so you can see. The button is usually in the door frame above the wheel arch. Take regular breaks.
Not in all cars, sadly. Mine has to go to the dealership. (Vauxhall Zafira)