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Original poster

Toilet problems

26 replies

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 15:10

I am at my wits end with DD and wanted to ask you lovely people for some advice before I go mad.

She is 4.5 and was potty trained 2yrs ago, she picked it up pretty quickly - only caveat would be holding her wee until the last second and then have little accidents. This has only ever been an issue at home - pre covid, we would go out for the day, be travelling on flights etc where she knows there is no ready toilet access and would always be dry. Likewise for nursery and would not need reminding to go there either.

End of last year, she started holding in poo, not clear why but it led to her being constipated, start of overflow, leakage etc so we followed disimpaction as per GP/ERIC. All cleared out as we caught it early - no prior issues with bowels.

However, she is now withholding both wee and poo. She will knowingly hold it in even though she feels urge to go until it starts coming out. We can see her doing the 'wee dance' or sitting on her heels trying to keep it in, we remind her and she insists she is fine when she is already wet/soiled. She is still taking laxatives to avoid getting impacted again so the poo also will just come if she ignores the urge.

We have tried everything that we can think of - reverting to nappies (even though she does not like them), keeping her in knickers so she feels wet, making her change herself after accidents, making her clean herself, going with her, letting her be independent and go alone, being gentle, being firm. NOTHING seems to encourage her to go when she feels the urge. We have sat down with her calmly and asked if there is a reason she doesn't like the toilet - she insists there isn't. She still goes immediately and by herself at nursery

I am ashamed to say I lost it with her over the weekend because I asked her 5 times if she needed the toilet (could see signs), she insisted not and then was soiled and wet when she did eventually go. I am really struggling to keep my cool when she lies that she is fine

She is completely dry at night too - any advice please before I go mad?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Findahouse21 · 03/03/2021 15:12

Stop asking her if she needs to go - I'd revert to taking her regularly and also taking her as soon as you see the physical signs.

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 15:15

She resists and has a tantrum because she doesn't 'need' to go at that point. I do feel you have a point that I somehow have to convince her to go every 45mins/1hr without fail

OP posts:

Immaback · 03/03/2021 15:16

Hello. No advice unfortunately but I’m watching with interest. Pretty much bang on what’s happening with my 4.5 year old boy (bar the constipation/laxitives was part)
It’s so incredibly frustrating ...he has been dry for weeks and then it will start again. He only drinks water /milk (possibly not enough is one of the things I’ve read ). He just says he hates going to the toilet ...no pain or anything just says it’s “boring”. The accidents are on the wee side. Hopefully someone will have some advice as I’m losing my mind

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Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 15:26

@Immaback Prior to covid, yes exactly the same with wee - dry for weeks, then it would start again but very rare to have any accidents when out. At home was little leaks but all due to sheer laziness with toileting. I feel being home constantly due to pandemic has exacerbated it massively and brought on being lazy with poo too.

And yes, she only drinks water and milk too, definitely has enough since constipation issues but I feel she did before too. I let her regulate her own intake since she was 2

OP posts:

Easterbunnygettingready · 03/03/2021 15:29

When she is doing the dance what else is distracting her? TV? Switch it off. Toys? Remove until she has a wee /poo.

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 15:33

@Easterbunnygettingready

When she is doing the dance what else is distracting her? TV? Switch it off. Toys? Remove until she has a wee /poo.

Nothing - it gets to the point she has to stop what she is doing to hold it all in. This is where I am going absolutely crazy with her. Nursery gave me same advice as you but they were also surprised when I told them the extent of withholding

OP posts:

NatalieH2220 · 03/03/2021 15:34

My son always insists on waiting until the very last minute to go as well for a wee. He rarely has accidents but can hold it for over an hour if he wants to which can't be good for him. I have now taken the option away and it's a case of we will stop doing XYZ until he has been if I see him wiggling. Sometimes it ends in a tantrum however he is slowly learning that if he just gets on with it then we can get back to playing or whatever we are doing a lot quicker. The other thing I do sometimes is tell him to just try. Sit down and count to 5 and if nothing then that's ok. Usually by one or two he goes as he is so desperate. It's all a bit of a faff and frustrating as he's fine at nursery but think they just don't want to miss out on anything!

@Immaback one other thing we did is bought a urinal. They have kids animal ones on Amazon for around £10 and this made it exciting for a while. He's always much more willing if we're upstairs as he gets to do a 'stand up wee'

Immaback · 03/03/2021 15:41

I think it’s gotten worse over the last few weeks. He just doesn’t care at all...I’ll find him changing his pants once they’re wet through but he won’t even then go to toilet. When I ask why he won’t go he says that he doesnt feel it until his Pants are wet but this doesn’t make sense because he’s been dry like I said for weeks at a time . He’ll start school in sept that worries me a bit.
I’m wondering if having a star chart for going at certain times would work again...:or I’ve seen watches that buzz around the time they should go....my concern with this is that it isn’t teaching him the feeling of needing to go. It’s so exhausting to be still at this stuff almost two years later. I should mention also that he was fully dry for 4 months when we trained him at 2.8 months and then we moved house and nursery etc and that’s when the “regression” started to begin with.

Immaback · 03/03/2021 15:43

Oh the urinal idea might work for a bit of novelty. Thanks!

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 15:49

I completely get what you mean in terms of not making sense - she constantly says 'it came out too quick' but like you said, have had months of no accidents and it never does that when we are out for day or at nursery.

Hers got worse and poo holding started when we moved out to start renovating together with going back to nursery after 6 months (due to 2020 lockdown and nursery being term time only). Sounds very possible the change was a trigger for the regression for both you and I

OP posts:

Easterbunnygettingready · 03/03/2021 15:56

Bag of sweets in the bathroom op... Every time you go you get one... Bet it won't take long for her to reform... . Sounds like a bad habit. Or a stubborn girl thing!! I have 3 dd's. Very stubborn. 8 ds's not so stubborn at all!!

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 16:29

Stubborn is the perfect description - and in every way!!

I have avoided bribery so far for 2 reasons - firstly, her memory is better than an elephant and will expect a sweet treat for a basic body function forever (I learnt this the hard way when I gave her a small chocolate on collection from nursery - it took the 6 month break over lockdown to get rid of that habit)
Secondly, my 2.5yr old will expect the same treatment as her (he is trained and currently goes without being bribed)

OP posts:

Absy · 03/03/2021 19:13

@Easterbunnygettingready

Joining in as DD (3) keeps on regressing with potty training.

We did the sweet thing at the beginning and it worked really well, but then she wouldn’t go unless she got a sweet. How do you prevent that from happening? DD is apparently fine at nursery with potty. At home I have to go with her and sit and wait for her to go. And that’s only pee. With poo she holds it and then ends up going in her sleep (or just when she wakes from a nap) or as soon as I put on a nappy.

Immaback · 03/03/2021 19:42

@itsallaboutfriends I have a just turned 2 year old who isn’t ready to potty trained yet and honestly this has put me off doing it for a long while 😣

Easterbunnygettingready · 03/03/2021 20:09

But she is too full of poo to fit a sweet in....

Vixyvix · 03/03/2021 20:43

Hi, I have a DD who did something similar and it drives you crazy when you know they have been going fine and then seem to go backwards. The thing that worked for us was using marshmallows (the mini ones), she would get them when she pooed in the toilet. Then over time to earn the marmallows it would have to be two clean days in a row for the marshmallows (and we would give her a sticker to show how many days had passed) then three, four etc. Once we saw that she was being clean more days than not then we started saying things like 'now we can see you are being such a big girl with toileting we can let you...' and we would give her an extra episode of her favourite programme or something saying that only big girls get to do this etc.

Absy · 03/03/2021 20:46

@Vixyvix

Oooh, that’s genius. I’ll try that. I don’t like being extorted by a 3 year old. We had also tried (but maybe it was too much) saying she would get a toy she chose once she was dry for a week, but it was too theoretical

MsChatterbox · 03/03/2021 20:49

Have you tried an alarm watch? When the alarm beeps its time to go. Maybe she won't mind doing it if its not you that is saying it? She could choose it herself.

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 03/03/2021 22:20

@Immaback I felt exactly the same and had no intention to train him before he was 3 (also had been told boys train later so hadn't anticipated him being ready). Then he decided at 2y3m he no longer wanted to wear nappies as he was a big boy. Fortunately childcare were very supportive so that and not being able to go anywhere else meant he was trained in a few weeks. I am not confident we won't have issues down the line after all this though....

@Vixyvix we tried a similar reward system with pompoms in a jar (bit like marbles) and she would get a reward of her choice when full - but she just isn't phased. She does all the other behaviours to get a pompom, just not the ones related to toileting. When I lost my temper with her on the weekend, I took away one of her most loved toys in anger (not a comforter but something she loves playing with) and she just gave it to me willingly, no fuss. It left me so guilty after as I always said I wouldn't do that but I couldn't handle it anymore
If she got a chocolate, it would incentivise her for sure but I know I would really struggle to reduce it from a poo in toilet to clean for a day, clean for 2 etc. And I really really don't want to have to give them to my youngest who will expect to be treated the same instantly (and will go to the toilet every 5 mins for another treat). I am on board with a reward, just to find something that isn't sugar so I can treat both equally!

@MsChatterbox I will give that a try too, thank you

OP posts:

Immaback · 03/03/2021 22:54

I’m glad to hear things are going smoothly with your little boy. And he may not have any regression at all so try not to worry!
I can relate to the exasperation and taking away a toy...my fella is not bothered either in that way, when will embarrassment kick in on the matter? I don’t want him getting upset of course but slight remorse would be nice as he peels off the 3rd pair of underpants by lunchtime
I’m now motivated again to start a star chart /reward chart. We have done one in the past for staying in his bed (he’s back in with us again at night but it did last a while !)
We allowed him to pick a toy he really wanted (guided a bit of course) and when he got 5 stars he got the toy. Obviously this would be very expensive and ott longer term but I feel like maybe it could break the habit at home ? It needs to be something he really wants and is a bit obsessed with mr men books so I might try that 🤞🏻🤞🏻

MissSmiley · 04/03/2021 13:08

@itsallaboutfriends one of my kids had similar problems that started at exactly the same age, I completely sympathise with how frustrating it is, turned out he had a wheat and gluten intolerance, eventually got over it, stayed gluten free until year 8 at secondary and then tested it and he's fine now, his twin brother and I have coeliac disease so the diet wasn't difficult for us. Can be caused by other things including behaviour but just wanted to share our story.

Original poster

itsallaboutfriends · 04/03/2021 13:34

Thank you so much @MissSmiley. Did your child have any other symptoms such as stomach discomfort/passing wind etc? Were there issues with both wee and poo? How did you get diagnosis in the end?

My biggest fear is that I am being unfair on her and there is an underlying issue that is causing it. She is an extremely bright little girl who can articulate herself very well - when unwell, she is able to describe exactly what the problem is and she is insistent that there is nothing in terms of pain/discomfort so I just don't know where to turn!

OP posts:

MissSmiley · 04/03/2021 15:04

@itsallaboutfriends it sounds similar, I had recently been diagnosed so the gastrointestinal tested him too, my biggest regret is that I made him feel some kind of shame because for a while I thought he should know better but it was completely out of his control. I had to push really hard to get anyone to believe it wasn't just constipation and leaking, by the way the antibody tests for coeliac were always negative for me and both the boys, diagnosed by biopsies and genetic testing

Immaback · 04/03/2021 15:16

@MissSmiley Where did you go to get these tests done?
I’ve wondered if it’s something more and also worry about it all being truly out of his control. He’s very articulate too and has no issue explaining how he feels (for example after playing chasing outside post dinner he got which I presume was a stitch and described it as “inside pinching just on one side of my tummy”

MissSmiley · 04/03/2021 15:43

See your GP and ask for a referral to a paediatric gastroenterologist
I carried spare pants around for years in my bag, and the smell from even the tiniest leak... he potty trained about age 3 but wasn't dry at night until at least 8, I think his bowel being full pressed on his bladder, then all of a sudden both problems went away but definitely not straight away, once the constipation had got hold it took a few years of the new diet to get him back to normal, it may have cleared up with age anyway but in my opinion it's worth checking, lots of people have constipation with coeliac disease not always diarrhoea

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