Consequence for DD(6) hitting

[TheDukeissoHot1]

What do you feel is an appropriate consequence for a 6yo DD who struggles to control her temper & regularly hits both DS(10) & me?

When she loses it she will scream, shout, insult me, throw things, deliberately damage something of DS’s or physically attack (scratch/hit/spit/kick). It is vile behaviour.

She has no additional needs, behaves like an angel outside of the home. We do not hit or smack our children. Our DS(10) is very gentle natured & has never hit her or us.

Have been trying to deal with it for a long time using naughty step/time out, loss of favourite toys and screen time but doesn’t seem to have any effect. I want her to realise this behaviour cannot carry on.

Current situation with lockdown really not helping and I desperately need new strategies.

Yes I’m a clearly a shit parent or my ‘consequences‘ would have worked years ago. Please, no judgemental posts, am looking for helpful, constructive advice.

Thankyou so much @fridaseyebrows, @Highfalutinlootin and @Barkybarkynutnut I didn’t see your comments before I posted last night & was feeling rather sensitive. You too @NerdyBird.

I am taking all the suggestions on board and will look at the Incredible Years and watch Inside Out with her. I also like now and next board and red & green zones ideas which links up nicely with the reward & consequence system school will be using so will definitely look at using that.

She is quite good at expressing her anger verbally, even sometimes in the heat of the moment but only if I catch her before she hits, however it hasn’t so far stopped it. As I’m now armed with some new tactics perhaps I can have success with that next time it’s needed.

FWIW his official diagnosis is Aspergers but I tend not to mention that on MN lest I get into a fight about it not being in the DSM (it’s not, but that’s not the only diagnostic manual available).

So this morning DD just attacked DS for something really trivial (she wanted him to pick up the ps controller her (which was right by her feet) after he’d already sat back down & then proceeded to hit him because she said he should have done it & that he wasn’t being helpful.

I calmly told her that hitting DS is not acceptable and the consequence was she had to go to her room and miss out on her minecraft time because it is not acceptable for her to hit and we don’t want to be around her if that is what she is doing. She won’t stay in there though and keeps coming out pleading with me to let her out, I really don’t want to be drawn into bickering with her about why she has to stay in there as surely that is then just giving more attention to it? What do I do?

She’s stood at her door screaming and shouting verbal abuse at everyone and I’m worried she’s going to start trashing things soon. How do you completely ignore a child who is doing that? All I seem to have done is make her even more angry. Have I handled this badly?

I’ve just repeated that she has lost her Minecraft time and has to stay in her room but then I’m still talking to her not ignoring her. Argh!

Just firmly repeat - stay in your room until x time. Don't engage on anything else. If she trashes her room - well then the consequence for that is she misses further fun time as she has tidying up to do. If she starts to do something dangerous then restrain and move her. Otherwise, stay calm, repeat your phrase 'stay on your room until x time' and ignore.

My DS (9) has struggled with similar.issues. Me and DH have been seeing a counsellor for a few months and it has been enormously helpful for us as parents, and DS is getting so much better as a result. A lot of what we have learned is doing the things that @MrsTerryPratchett said. But when it comes to in the moment, like you are now, our counsellor advised us to keep him safe but let the storm ride out - and then ensure that the natural consequence is followed.thorough in a supportive way. As said earlier - 'I'm sorry you can't have your.minecraft time now either, but look at this tidying that has to be done.'

Thanks for the reassurance @LarryUnderwood, she seems to have calmed down now though she still keeps popping out periodically to ask if she can come down. I think it’s been almost an hour so I think I’m going to let her out soon after a frank discussion. Let’s hope she takes this on board next time she wants to hit

An hour is a long time, I probably wouldn’t (couldn’t - he wouldn’t let me) have left mine so long, so you’ve done well in that regard. And the consequence was absolutely logical - she’s about to play minecraft, behaved appallingly, it didn’t happen. So giving her some time to calm down and removing the reward is good. I usually close the circle by sitting with him and explaining why the thing happened, and we talk about what he could have done differently. I usually try and engineer a way in which he earns back the original reward later in the day to show him that bad behaviour = punishment, good = reward

Over time we are getting somewhere. This is just the beginning.

The Explosive Child is a good read op.

Other commentators say not to over talk it as it can increase the behaviour so I've been trying to do that lately while noticing and praising the good choices. It's not really hitting here that's a problem but exploding when he doesn't get his way (8yo), it's exhausting at times.

I think an hour is too long.

So do I.

@TheDukeissoHot1

So this morning DD just attacked DS for something really trivial (she wanted him to pick up the ps controller her (which was right by her feet) after he’d already sat back down & then proceeded to hit him because she said he should have done it & that he wasn’t being helpful.

I calmly told her that hitting DS is not acceptable and the consequence was she had to go to her room and miss out on her minecraft time because it is not acceptable for her to hit and we don’t want to be around her if that is what she is doing. She won’t stay in there though and keeps coming out pleading with me to let her out, I really don’t want to be drawn into bickering with her about why she has to stay in there as surely that is then just giving more attention to it? What do I do?

She’s stood at her door screaming and shouting verbal abuse at everyone and I’m worried she’s going to start trashing things soon. How do you completely ignore a child who is doing that? All I seem to have done is make her even more angry. Have I handled this badly?

I’ve just repeated that she has lost her Minecraft time and has to stay in her room but then I’m still talking to her not ignoring her. Argh!

I also found it difficult to Time Out when my child trashed any room i put him in. I did try and time him out in the garden once. Massively bad decision as he completely melted down and my neighbour had a huge go at me and now we don’t talk as they think I’m a monster 🤦🏻‍♀️

How I handle that scenario now if that the games console gets removed immediately. Even if the other child hasn’t done anything to lose it, it gets packed away and has to be earned back by good behaviour. If I get won’t go into a time out and stay there for the appropriate amount of minutes there is a consequence. So I don’t get into an argument, I just say thats absolutely fine, however the iPad (or similar) has now gone for the rest of the day. I keep very calm and I follow through.

So last night they lost the Wii because my eldest was nasty to my youngest. He was kicking him then youngest threaten to bite him 😬. So Wii was confiscated immediately and that was that. This morning they asked if they could earn it back. I said yes (they only have the games console at the weekends). So the youngest worked through a load of sight words and phonics, and then the eldest did three pages of division work in his practice book. This approach works well for all of us. Bad behaviour has consequences but it also allows me to reverse a decision I made the previous day without looking weak AND work gets done which helps with their education.

@TheDukeissoHot1

Thanks for the reassurance *@LarryUnderwood*, she seems to have calmed down now though she still keeps popping out periodically to ask if she can come down. I think it’s been almost an hour so I think I’m going to let her out soon after a frank discussion. Let’s hope she takes this on board next time she wants to hit

Oh yes an hour is far too long. One minute for each year of their age. Set a timer. Be consistent.

I did the garden time out too, out of sheer desperation, and he got out the garden hose and sprayed all the windows. I pretended I didn't notice... I can laugh at it now but tbh for my dc, anything that antagonised further isn't helpful.

@HeyGirlHeyBoy

I did the garden time out too, out of sheer desperation, and he got out the garden hose and sprayed all the windows. I pretended I didn't notice... I can laugh at it now but tbh for my dc, anything that antagonised further isn't helpful.

Thank you for saying this. I still hold huge guilt about being so desperate and the ramifications ie. the neighbours. I came very close to suicide that Christmas as I was so low over it. Thankfully now I can look back and forgive myself and it actually led to a lot of positive things so even though I’m still completely humiliated that I’m ur neighbours think so poorly of me, I also accept that being an adult means living with the poor decisions you make and owning them.

*that my neighbours

@TheDukeissoHot1 I sympathise.

Two of my DC display challenging behavior, my DS has SEN but my DD hasn't got a diagnosis of anything despite her behaviour not being usual but that's another thread!

Anyway a few months ago I ended up talking to the head and I completely fell apart. I was mortified (still am!) we were asked if we wanted to be referred to the Early Help scheme with the council and we agreed. (we'd do anything at this point) we have a family support worker who give us tips and advice/support. She is really lovely, at first I was worried we'd be judged for struggling to manage the behaviour but I needn't of worried.

We did a parenting course called 123 magic and it's been working well for us, I would recommend it, it's not easy and requires a lot of consistency but that's the same for any discipline method.

It was developed by an American paediatrician. The book is on Amazon. Give it a go!

And please don't judge yourself too harshly it's all good and well saying should of nipped it in the bud in the first instance but that kind of stuff is just unhelpful and doesn't assist with rectifying the behaviour.

You are not alone!

Ah gosh, that's terrible you felt so awful. My friend's friend always popped her dc in the garden the minute they had a tantrum! I don't agree with that but clearly many of us reach our limit. My gentler than you could imagine Dsis also popped her 4yo outside one time. Interesting you say good things resulted from it.

@TheDukeissoHot1

Thanks for the reassurance *@LarryUnderwood*, she seems to have calmed down now though she still keeps popping out periodically to ask if she can come down. I think it’s been almost an hour so I think I’m going to let her out soon after a frank discussion. Let’s hope she takes this on board next time she wants to hit

She is not going to get it after one time out. Maybe thats the issue? Things dont seem to work( the first time) so.possibly its inconsistency. An hour is too long 20 minutes and a minute gets added everytime she comes out . Have a phrase thats used calmly if she comes out " timeout" Nothing else Does she have to apologise? That would be the condition of coming out of her room .

@fridaseyebrows

We are working on a similar issue. Lockdown is having a big impact. Can she articulate why she does it and does she feel regret afterwards?

We’re working on emotions following advice from school. Google the zones of self regulation. We talk about the red zone (anger) and the green zone (calm) we talk about our toolkit to get back to green. We have a corner of the room where together we made posters about it meant to be in the different emotional zones. I have a poster with my toolkit listed (so what calms me down) and DS has his. In that corner he then keeps a few things that help him calm down. A doodle book, some books to read, a comforter etc. When he goes to red we encourage him to go to the calm zone until he’s back to green. Early days but talking about why he feels angry and acknowledging that anger itself isn’t a bad thing but how we react is important seems to help. I talk about my feelings and my zones throughout the day as well

We had major issues with DS last summer. He went back to school in Sept and was totally back to normal. We can see now that he’s starting to go in the same direction again so hoping this is going to help and we can get through to 8 March

I should say suspected SEN here (autism / adhd) but borderline and I don’t think that changes approach much

Good luck!

The Zones of Regulation are fab for managing emotions, I would second this. It’s designed for group use but can easily be adapted for one on one.

Thankyou for the replies. I think I was just having an ‘in the heat of the moment’ panic.

Yes, with hindsight, perhaps an hour was too long, but I have been doing the standard timeout of one minute for each year of her life since she was a toddler and it’s never yet stopped a repeat of her behaviour.

She was perfectly safe in her room and eventually ended up playing by herself with her playmobil. She was much calmer when I went to speak to her and we discussed her behaviour and her emotions, said it was perfectly acceptable to feel angry, but hitting DS/me or calling me names was not going to be tolerated. I followed through with the consequence and she missed her Minecraft time but will be given the opportunity to go on it again tomorrow.

@Templetree I do try to stick with a consistent approach and it’s not a case of expecting it to work once, more just that I hope it makes her think a bit more before she does it again. And yes of course she has to apologise- she did it voluntarily without being asked or told to which I praised her for.

@Flamingolingo thanks for sharing your experience with your DS and his ASD diagnosis. I will certainly keep it in mind that anger could be the only sign and discuss with school if things don’t make an improvement once she is back.

@AwFeebs thankyou, a friend has leant me the 123 magic book and @HeyGirlHeyBoy I will also look out the Explosive Child - lots of bedtime reading to do.

I am taking all the helpful suggestions on board and am really going to work on helping her express her emotions and keeping calm and give lots of praise when she succeeds with that.

am taking all the helpful suggestions on board and am really going to work on helping her express her emotions and keeping calm and give lots of praise when she suceeds with that

I didnt praise mine for apologising or for controlling themselves and not hitting.

Other than a quiet thank you from the person that has been hit, why would you praise her?
It gives her the idea that its a choice whether to hit someone or not and she is being "good" in not doing it.
Bottom line-no hitting or verbal abuse,its unacceptable,consequences if she doesnt.

I think The Explosive Child is probably the antithesis to 123Magic! But the author, Dr Ross Greene is highly thought amongst professionals regarding discipline and child mental health. As well as the cathartic stuff, which is best teamed with you helping her put words on her feelings, calming stuff really good too, during the regular day as well as outdoor play etc. It's hard at the moment, tbf, and we've all been more reactive at times I think.

It's worth noticing her and seeing her when she's making the right choices, that's why praise could be useful. I imagine she's got a lot of attention for the hitting so op is trying to turn it round a bit.

OP
Could I ask you something?
Advance apologies if this is intrusive .
Are you a single parent ?
Has she witnessed partner abuse towards you?

She is verbally abusive age 6 and violent towards your son, who doesnt react.
It stands out that they may have adopted these roles.
Apologies if Im barking up the wrong tree here.

@Templetree

OP Could I ask you something? Advance apologies if this is intrusive . Are you a single parent ? Has she witnessed partner abuse towards you?

She is verbally abusive age 6 and violent towards your son, who doesnt react.
It stands out that they may have adopted these roles.
Apologies if Im barking up the wrong tree here.

@Templetree it’s ok to ask - no I’m not a single parent, DH & I have a loving relationship, no verbal, emotional or physical abuse at all (bar an occasional shout at the kids when they are arguing) and DD has never ever been witness to any sort of violence.

DH is a keyworker working out of the home & is extremely busy at the moment and working long hours. I’m wfh and with the kids 24/7, trying to work and teach and be mum all at the same time while feeling like I’m running on empty, much like millions of other people probably are at the moment! It’s very stressful I’ll be glad for all of us when they go back to school.

I think DS doesn’t retaliate because with the age gap between them, he’s always known he should never hit her because being so much bigger he would hurt her, and also just it’s not in his nature to do it. He’s a very gentle & sensitive child.

As for praising her, like @HeyGirlHeyBoy says, I want to encourage her to make the right choices so actually I think its important.

We’ve had a success today. DS was struggling with his school work and getting upset - DD wanted to help him so brought him a soft toy and gave him a cuddle (which he accepted & was lovely to see and which he and I both thanked her for) but then she got upset and sobbed when I asked her to go and carry on with her work whilst I helped him. Later on she told me she felt really angry but she didn’t hit and that she felt very proud of herself, so I heaped the praise on her and told her she should be very proud for keeping calm. She’s been on cloud 9 all day, been really helpful and polite and was so excited to tell DH about it tonight.