Why won’t my daughter follow basic requests?

[EllieQ]

I am really struggling with DD, who is almost 6, and this morning I ended up grabbing her arms and shouting in her face, which has made me feel terrible.

I got angry because I’d asked her to go to the toilet, and she refused. She needed to go to the toilet, because she hadn’t been since she got up at 7.30 (this was at 11), and DH was just about to go in the shower, which almost guarantees DD saying she needs to go. There is an ongoing issue with her leaving it to the last minute, then wetting herself as she rushes to the bathroom, which really upsets her. But she doesn’t seem to make the connection between going before she’s desperate and not having an accident.

Her behaviour is tough in other ways - lots of whinging, getting stroppy when asked to do something like come and eat dinner, and when she kicks off into a full tantrum it goes on for ages and there is no way of calming her down.

We do a lot of warnings, countdowns, saying we’re going to do X then Y, as I can see she struggles with transitions. This morning I told her she could play on the iPad while I was in the shower, then she had to go to the toilet and at least try to have a wee.

Obviously the whole Covid situation with lockdowns and school being closed is hard on her, and I try hard to take this into account, but it’s really hard when everything is a negotiation or a battleground, and sometimes I feel like we walk on eggshells to avoid her kicking off.

She’s an only child (not by choice) and I’m starting to feel that we have spoilt her and let her get away with too much. She was an easy baby and quite an easygoing toddler - there were some tantrums, but all had a logical (for toddlers) reason and she could be distracted and calmed down. This kind of behaviour (having to ask several times/ endless negotiations) started when she was around four. I have read ‘How to talk so little kids will listen’ and try to use the techniques, but it doesn’t seem to make that much difference.

We have no family nearby (my parents are both dead; PIL are 200 miles away and not really helpful when they do visit). DH was made redundant last year after months on furlough, and I’ve been WFH since last March. Obviously we are both stressed, but I need to know how to deal with this and not lose my temper.

I would just like her to go to the toilet when prompted, get dressed/ undressed without any arguments, and come to the table to eat a meal without having to be asked and getting stroppy about it. Is that too much to ask?

I get the impression that with a last (or only) child it can be quite easy for parents to continue to 'baby' for too long. And then the child ends up fighting for some control. Could it be that your DD is using the toilet as a way to gain control and independence that isn't there otherwise?

Can you think of 'big girl' rewards / incentives?

So dressing on her own (maybe with you outside the door giving her the steps), not wetting herself / interrupting while you are in the shower, laying the table etc? These could get her an extra game with you, or choose the outing or whatever?

Having the ipad when you're in the shower sounds like a hangover from when she was 3 and couldn't entertain herself for 10 mins safely.

Could you talk up how grown up she is getting, teach her how to chop mushrooms and other big girl skills?

My dd would have these sort of epic tantrums at a similar age. They were almost scary at times and she couldn’t snap out of them. Then afterwards she’d be so upset and drained.

But in hindsight after each one, I could see what the build up was and if I’d done things differently then they could have been avoided. It would usually be a case of wanting more attention and I was pushing her to do something quickly. In the end it took more time trying to force her, so saved no time at all in the long run. So I slowed down and worked with her a bit more.

First of all, you don’t have to negotiate everything. Second of all, you already have all the power as the parent even if it doesn’t feel that way! It’s important to remember that.

A good book I read was by Philippa Perry “the book you wish your parents had read”. It’s not about techniques but it helped me to understand my feelings when my dcs didn’t do as they say. I highly recommend it.

Reflect on your flash points. Things like going to the toilet, getting dressed etc. Is it really a call for attention - and children like attention even if it is negative.

Have a think about how you’re giving her attention. She will be incredibly lonely as an only child during lockdown not going to school - and the attention she needs will not be satisfied with iPad time etc. With my dd - I play her iPad games with her, I let her help me with stuff, I will get her to get dressed with me, I’ll let her sit with me while I work. At bedtime, I spend ages with her, she follows me around the house 😂 Yes it’s intense - but she’s lonely. So so lonely - even with having her brother around!

Maybe let her be your shadow for a bit and see how that goes.

I wondered about ASD too, my dd is eight and she sounds very similar to her, she's in the process of being diagnosed, she is fine in school as she masks it but does struggle with friendship issues.

I have a dc6 like this and I would advise to stop micro managing and reacting to the tantrums as that is what she wants. I Just walk away and say when you have calmed down come and find me, then i explain that its not okay and he has to apologise.

With the toileting / getting dressed and in my case eating I really have to remain calm and I absolutely sympathise with you as some days its really hard.

Hey op,

Just wanted to say that You're doing fine, and I've no doubt that all this will. Get better as she gets older.

The toilet refusing is the big issue here. Crack that and all the other tantrums will improve. Before I had kids I had no idea just how much needing the toilet affected their moods, but then I did remember my mum talking about it when we were little.

Distraction is still a technique that can work with a 6 Yr old even though they're on to you. First thing in the morning, the second she wakes she must go to the loo. Bring in in there and put her on the loo while talking about something interesting like a video you saw of a zoo animal etc that you can show her once the wee is done.

I know through experience that if you get to 11am and the morning wee has not been done then no amount of discussion about getting dressed will work.

Wee holding makes them lethargic and furious at the same time.

So get her on the loo, rather than tell her to go. stay with her if necessary but don't focus on it, talk about something else very exciting and interesting.

It's hard op and I get it, but honestly think once you have her regularly going to the loo you will see big improvements all around.

Wee straight away as soon as she wakes up. Bring her in yourself and distract while talking about something interesting like a video of a zoo animal etc she can look at once the wee is done.
No discussion but try to detach, wee first then treat always!
If you crack getting her to do regular wees then you will see massive behaviour improvents all around.

Wee holding is very much linked to tantrums and distress in children so try to tackle that first - absolutely don't let her get to 11am without going cause then the day starts off badly.

I do sympathise though as it's an issue here too and really presses my buttons. You are doing just fine and this will get better over time too.

Sorry about the two posts my first wouldn't post

[quote lollipoprainbow]@imalmostthere what a sanctimonious response ! I'm sure many patents have snapped and shouted especially at the moment doesn't make us terrible parents that need parenting classes. [/quote]
I've shouted for sure. Grabbing arms and shouting in a child's face is completely different- but ok if you think that's acceptable.

@Rainallnight

Once they start, it’s impossible to calm her down. So, if she refuses to get dressed and I leave the room saying I’ll wait until she’s ready, she then starts shouting ‘I want to get dressed!’ As soon as I come back in saying ‘Ok, let’s get dressed’, she’ll start screaming that she won’t get dressed, until I leave again and she switches to wanting to get dressed. This can go on and on.

OP my daughter is EXACTLY the same, along with all of the other behaviours you’ve identified. I feel for you so much and anyone judging you and telling you that you need parenting classes can bugger off till they’ve walked a mile in your/our shoes. Lockdown is a fucking nightmare if you have this behaviour directed at you 24/7.

My DD is adopted and I’ve always thought a lot of her behaviour stems from a very high need for control which is probably related to attachment stuff. I don’t want to jump to the ‘underlying issues’ thing with your DD but could there be anything going on for her?

Thanks @Rainallnight. DD isn’t like this all the time; that must be very hard for you. Are there any books that you have found helpful?

I do think there is a need for control - DD can seem quite anxious at times. I have wondered about ASD, and another poster has suggested ADHD.

To be fair you don't need to be a "terrible parent" to benefit from a parenting class. Parenting classes are often more like masterclasses or advanced training workshops - don't you get those at work? You already do the basics, but they're a good way to get out of a rut, learn how to deal with an extra-tricky problem, get some new some ideas and strategies, and talk to other people who are doing the same job. And (having seen you are thinking about an ASC or ADHD) if you ask for a referral a parenting class is often suggested as a first step anyway.

I do have a DC with an ASC and I got a lot out of parenting classes, both general ones and specialist ones for kids with issues. They vary but I got a lot of support for some of my not-quite-bog-standard approaches, usually I came away with some bright idea to try out, or at least being able to think "well at least DC never tried that!" (after someone's child decided it would be fun to empty a huge can of olive oil over the kitchen floor....)

So there's no harm in giving a class a go if you get the chance, though I dunno how easy that is right now.

And even if it is asd she needs to learn a better way to communicate and a way to control her emotions.

Another parent to a child with asd here.

I agree with @MildredPuppy and would also offer choices, do you want to use the toilet before or after Daddy has his shower, do you want to wear the red jumper or the blue jumper?
This approach feels empowering for the child, I would keep the choices offered to 2 or 3 maximum. It also shows an expectation that DD will use the toilet, get dressed etc.
Try and not let yourself get stressed over this, your DD is not so different from many other 6 year olds testing boundaries but grabbing her arm and shouting in her face will only damage your relationship; I know it’s hard but imagine how you would feel if a much bigger person on whom you relied upon did this to you.
Lockdown is effecting us all so don’t be too hard on yourself,

What about asking her to get changed while you make a surprise breakfast. Could be a surprise every day. Big it up. Pancakes one day, soft boiled egg the next, beans on toast next day, croissants. That way the emphasis is on getting ready in order to have a surprise

Also try a timer. Ask her how many minutes she would like before getting changed and then set the timer.

I agree with others that it does all seem to be battle for control and that perhaps there is a bit of micro-managing and babying going on.

Of course it’s easier and more efficient for you to dress her but it would be really good for her confidence and independence to do this for herself. Same with using the toilet, she should be allowed to make decisions for herself around this rather than being constantly reminded and encouraged.

I went through similar battles for control with a strong willed DD of the same age and things only improved when I stepped back and allowed her some autonomy wherever possible. Doing that took the pressure off and meant she didn’t feel the need to push back against me all the time.

Good luck! All parenting is incredibly difficult at the moment.

OP when my dc are like this they are basically asking for more TLC and more attention. It is infuriating that when they need more love and attention they behave in a way which would drive a saint to insanity, but this is what it is, and to give more love and attention works every time. So, they are being obstinate and defiant, saying "i won't do x" and you say "ok, that is fine" and walk away and they scream "i want to do x" .... they need more love and attention from you, overkill love and attention. For us it goes in cycles, I forget about this, things go a bit mad, I remember, I pile on the love and attention. It works.

I agree with the pp that shouting and screaming in her face is totally unacceptable, but you said you apologised and that is the most important thing, repairing. We all lose our temper from time to time, it is how far we go, how often we do it, how quickly we recover, how well we repair that matters. But be aware that she might still be upset about this weeks later, and when she starts to act badly, it might be to do with you losing your sh.. which you apologised for. And again, the magic solution is more love, more attention.

This won't spoil her or make her act up even worse. She wants to act well, and she wants to be close to you and please you. This behaviour is a cry for help, I really do believe that. In fact, most times when people behave badly it is because they feel bad inside. Your dc needs your help to feel good inside and she will then be more cooperative.

When she is pushing boundaries that is normal too, but it is different, it is easier to deal with.

@SimonJT I think that most of your post was on the right lines I think you need to be careful with this: I go with natural consequences, so yesterday my son wanted to go to the park but he wouldn’t put his wellies on, I told him if he didn’t put them on he couldn’t go to the park as he needs wellies to keep his feet safe/dry. I then ignored him for a few minutes so he could make a decision, the wellies weren’t put on so I went to the park without him because this isn't a natural consequence it is a punishment, a natural consequence is something where you do not take a decision, your intervention makes it a punishment. Punishment will create a lot of bad feeling within your child and will erode their trust, so makes it harder for them to behave well.

I tried to make button and felt flowers with him this week, he purposely tipped the buttons on the floor, so until he had picked them all up we couldn’t continue making flowers or get any other toys out. Again I left him to make his own decision, he left them then went back about half an hour later and finally picked them all up again, this might be him trying to tell you he needs help from you, more attention. Him picking them up is in a way him accepting it is your way or the highway which I am not sure is the message you want him to have?

I also think washing a five year old's clothes when they have an accident is not the same thing as being their maid. If he has wet himself it could be a cry for help.

@EllieQ she sounds like my son, who's 6in a few months. He's only been toilet trained since Jan and would go back into nappies tomorrow of let him. He also needs reminding to go to the loo periodically and also resents it.

Natural consequence would be him wetting himself, followed by a hysterics (and depending where he is one of the babies deciding it's a splash puddle) and when he's calm he's expected to strip himself and redress himself and I do the cleaning up but it doesn't bother him next time and sometimes he'll wet himself and not tell me because being wet or stinky doesn't actually bother him.

Also the feeding / drinking, if I said eat or don't eat he'd just not eat. That isn't what I can have as an outcome.

So is it normal, I don't know. But you're not alone.

Clothing, whilst were in lockdown I don't really care as long as he's clean so if it's pants and t-shirt I let it go. If we're going out then he has to pit suitable for the weather clothes on or else he can't go - so refusing wellies when it's rained for 3 days, he has the choice - put them on or stay. It's a battle I choose not to fight. If he gets changed mid way through the day, the other clothes go back in a drawer if they're clean.

God help me with uniform tho

I might steal some book ideas and some of the other tips. I hate that I've turned into a shouter