Torn on buying a games console...

[ElphabaTheGreen]

I have two DSs - 8yo and 6yo.

Their current screen time is an hour of TV in the morning so that DH and I can get ready for work. They then get half an hour in the afternoon on the computer or on a spare iPad we have with heavy parental controls on it, but only after homework and instrument practice is done. They usually spend their time using coding apps to create their own games or school related stuff like Reading Eggs, Get Epic or Maths Prodigy. They get a bit of extra time if they’re doing something like Microbit or Raspberry Pi with their dad as he’s teaching them proper programming and circuit-building. DH has zero interest in games consoles and can’t see why I’m going around in circles about it - he can’t see any point in them.

Pre-Covid they had limited access to a games console at their school breakfast club, so I had my guilt assuaged that they knew their way around Minecraft and FIFA because of this but it wasn’t something I had to police. They at least didn’t look like complete know-nothings around their friends.

Obviously this is now currently not happening and they won’t be going back to breakfast club after lockdown for various reasons.

They both want a games console. I am perfectly happy with the amount of screen time they get and DO NOT want something else I have to bargain and negotiate with them about - it’s why they’ve never had their own tablets. They’re creative and terrific at entertaining themselves - on the rare occasion they claim to be bored, they’ve found themselves something to do within less than 30 seconds and I don’t want this to turn into begging for gaming time, which I’m pretty sure it would. Outside of Covid, they also have lots of activities like dancing, gymnastics, music and swimming that I want to get them to easily, without having to prise a controller out of their protesting hands.

Conversely, I’m fully aware that gaming is how kids today socialise. Two of DS1’s closest friends ‘meet’ regularly via Switch to play MarioKart together and that makes me feel a little sorry for DS1. I don’t know how much I’m affecting their social interaction in holding out on a console - DS1’s teacher describes him as ‘everyone’s friend’ and he gets along with absolutely everyone so it seems OK for now but I don’t want him to get excluded because his parents are ‘old fashioned’.

Also for context - I’m an ex-gamer. I feel like I wasted hours/days/weeks/months of my teens and twenties parked in front of a console and I do not want my bright, energetic boys heading the same way. I’d also rather not have a console in the house as I bordered on having an addiction and I’d rather not have the temptation quite frankly (although playing a bit of Kart with my DSs also has some appeal...).

Thoughts??

How do you get from want to be different/unique to rebellious teenager? You can get one without the other. Surely.

As I was a teenager and wanted to be different, even in my tribe, I dare say it’s not all teenagers.

Don't do it - worse thing I ever did. My bright, engaging, interested child has become obsessed with gaming

We have always had the console in the lounge so does restrict the amount of time people can be on it. Also it was the family console so that seemed to make it easier to control the use of it

@ineedaholidaynow

We have always had the console in the lounge so does restrict the amount of time people can be on it. Also it was the family console so that seemed to make it easier to control the use of it

Same here, think it really helps having it in the family space. I wouldn't be happy at all for DC to play in their rooms.

@ineedaholidaynow

We have always had the console in the lounge so does restrict the amount of time people can be on it. Also it was the family console so that seemed to make it easier to control the use of it

So did we. Until after his GCSEs. He just waited for everyone to go to bed before coming down and playing in the middle of the night. We took the controllers up to bed with us, he bought a controller we knew nothing about. So putting it in the family room is not a deterrent I’m afraid.

Look OP, everyone thinks they know how to deal with issues concerning their children because their children have made it to a particular milestone. The bottom line is every child is different, even ones in the same household. It might be fine for you and your family, it might not. It’s all a leap of faith.

My DS is in his first year of uni and bores me daily with talk about quantum computing. Which is an improvement on what was happening before Christmas, where we had to take everything away, PC, console everything (yes I can still do that at 18). He’s still on a referral list to the clinic. That doesn’t mean anything like that will happen to your boys.

My husband and I gamed from a young age and hope our son is into gaming when he's older.

Gaming itself didn't have a detrimental effect on us. My husband played a lot of MMOs and made loads of friends, to the point where he went out to the US to meet his friends when he was 18. It really helped his confidence and social skills (he has mild Autism).

On the other hand, I hate co-op gaming and love to game on my own. Growing up, I would spend a lot of time gaming. Nothing bad happened. I was still a great student at school and socialised with my friends like a normal kid.

For the most part, I think that the people who are against gaming don't game and just don't get it. Yes, a few kids become obsessed and make their entire lives about it. A small percentage.

Our three are a little bit older, and enjoy gaming on consoles, tablets, laptops or anything else. It almost certainly will become something you bargain and negotiate with them about.

However, our kids have learnt A LOT about bargaining and negotiating! .

But they still love reading, Lego, den building, trampoline, kicking a ball around the back garden, music, art, junk modeling, cooking, board games, programming etc.

I don't personally buy into the idea that the only benefits of gaming is social, or that even that that side of it is that important. I think you could go either way here, but reports from some friends suggest that it will take a long time, if ever, for your kids to not resent you if you don't let them play computer games.

You could also take the view that eventually a pc/laptop is a critical part of life these days. There are plenty of games they could play on there.

This is a really hard one.
Games like minecraft etc can be good for problem solving and building at that age. Also some games where they have to earn money to buy things can teach them the value of money.
I have found that my 19 year old who does too much gaming has very limited face to face social skills and that worries me. Also find if he has been online playing war games his attitude can be bad afterwards.
I would say maybe get them something but monitor what they are playing and manage when they play it, and if you notice changes in your child reduce play time.
One good thing i have never seen them tidy a room so fast, as i used to make them do chores to gain play time!

I can’t answer that question fully. There were always restrictions as it’s on a family television, so just because he may have wanted to play doesn’t mean he was going to get to play when others were watching television for example. You’ll see from some of the responses from parents who don’t/didn’t have problems they have restrictions. I think it’s down to the individual. Plus Addiction isn’t really about what you can’t have, it’s about wanting/needing more of what you already have.

I do sometimes wonder if the term addiction and obsession is sometimes used just when referring to spending a lot of time on a hobby that you don't personally enjoy or understand.

Growing up my mum would often tell me I was obsessed and addicted to games and that I wasted so much time because I played them most evenings, yet she would watch TV for hours each evening and that was fine. She never actually restricted how much I played, but it always made me kind of sad that she made me feel like I was doing wrong for spending time on something I was passionate about and really enjoyed doing.

@Jessica2477 If you were spending 65 hours a week gaming, term time, you were doing too much. Imo

Jessica I was a gamer as I said in my OP. I would call it an addiction in many cases and multiple studies support gaming addiction as a bona fide thing based upon dopamine release in the brain mimicking other addictions. That’s nice that you’ve been able to turn it into something useful, but all of my dancing, gymnastics, socialising, and general physical activity fell completely by the wayside. I felt miserable and a bit desperate when I wasn’t gaming. That’s not healthy. I wish my DSs had my DH’s natural ‘zero interest’ gene, because my main worry is that they’ll head down the route I took. My mum didn’t restrict my gaming time, FYI, and I’m sure I must have been five or six when I got my first console. I had to get my household chores done first but that was it. I’d be on for hours when they were done. I also really don’t like the idea of using gaming as leverage for getting chores done and is one of the many reasons I balk at a console. I don’t mind the PC/laptop so much because they learn actual skills on there, from basic computer navigation to programming. Consoles - not so much.

@ElphabaTheGreen

No, I definitely don’t want one in the house - that would be my preference completely but I could be being completely unreasonable to two 2021 kids. I’m interested in those that are saying introduce one from the age of about 12, as I have been wondering if that’s the way to go. I do think it’s something of an inevitability - 8 and 6 just seem awfully young when they’re so easily entertained by loads of other stuff, but I do feel they’re very much in the minority with their peers. I’m interested in hearing if I am underestimating the social impact (damage?) in this day and age and also interested in how others with DCs of the same age do regulate console use. I cannot stand the idea of using screen time as currency for good behaviour or, as I’ve said above, adding in something else I have to bargain and fight with them over. Neither of those things are an issue without a console, and I’m bloody happier for it, but I don’t want to trade that off for turning them into social pariahs in the near future or just fuelling a future gaming addiction because I denied them when they were younger and they missed the window to learn self-regulation.

So many, many reasons...reading, Lego, fort building, trampoline, kicking a ball around the back garden, playing an instrument, writing, drawing...all solo activities but so much more developmentally valuable than gaming. So much more. I won't do the Googling for you to find the easily available evidence for this

Read your own posts, for you very good reasons for saying no.

Some kids can take it or leave it & it causes no problems, but that's not the experience for the vast majority of parents and once you have one it's hard to go back.

They're doing & learning so much now, I just wouldn't. Gaming is such an easy default too, they don't think about other things they'd enjoy doing- Lego, playing out, reading, etc. Going to once favoured hobbies turns into a chore because they'd rather chat & play on consoles.

Yes- it's not all kids, but it's a nightmare when it is, I've had friends go through hell.

One friend has two kids, had consoles since the kids were a bit younger than yours. They're now almost 17 & almost 15. 17yo DD love to play, but can take it or leave it -very motivated academically, talented at art, plays sport, lives crafty stuff. DS Isn't academic, but likes to build things & bake but rarely does because he'd rather be sprawled on the sofa gaming. He's SO hard to motivate.

So it's not down to parental influence or rules etc it's down to the child and you don't know that until it's far too late.

I'm glad we didn't have one when I was a child as I'd be like their DS, not like their DD. I'm bad enough with my phone!!!

Your kids are at school so they're not missing out socially. They don't need it and they don't need to be given everything they want that their friends have (it doesn't sound like you usually work that way either).

@Jessica2477. I forgot to mention I do enjoy gaming, it’s just not all there is in my life.

I think you’ve basically captured it there LatteLover. Thanks.

@Faultymain5

They’re behaviour will change once you get consoles. It just will. Once they start playing games they’ll only want to do that, especially when it’s new.

Even with tons of restrictions, they may or may not focus on gaming a little too much.

The idea that you should do this because other children their age have them is weird to me. Many of my DS’s cohorts had phones at 9. But we’re still picked up by their parents at the school gate. I couldn’t see the point and he got a phone at 11 in preparation for further travel to high school. You don’t have to do what everyone else is doing, if what you are doing is working for you.

My DS is 18 with a gaming addiction (on a waiting list at a clinic) and we had restrictions like 2 hours Saturdays and Sunday’s no game play during the week. He would go downstairs in the middle of the night to circumvent the rules. I enjoy gaming too. I don’t however need to game.

You need to decide based on what you know about your children now. GCSEs were hard with the console in the house.

I think that you need to listen to this, OP. I have three teens and zero consoles, for many reasons - the main one is that I didn't want the constant arguments and negotiations. So many more interesting things to do with your time.

It's not having a console that could be a problem it's how a parent parents the child using the console. My two boys (9&8) have had a PlayStation for a couple of years and yes they enjoy gaming but if I offer to do something outside or an activity they'd prefer to do that.

I don't regret buying gaming consoles in the slightest. Most children do these days even if Mumsnet says they don't.

Oh and that's a console each, not sharing. Why would I let the kids argue if they didn't have too.

@heart80s. It's not having a console that could be a problem it's how a parent parents the child using the console.

Can you expand on that? I’d like to know what you mean by using the console.

Why would I let the kids argue if they didn't have too.

I’d like to point out the arguments are usually with the parents. Not just between the kids. Obviously my DS wasn’t arguing with DD as the age difference meant the things that meant a lot to him didn’t mean the same to her.

My other half has been a gamer since he was a kid. It was through a game he learnt programming languages and had a decent paying job now as a software engineer.

People demonise gaming as evil but in my opinion it's better than TV as it isn't passive. Obviously there are some wildly inappropriate games and there's the online issue.

My daughter is only 1 bit it's something we are off course thinking about. I think if be happy to play grants like mibecraft, stardew valley with her and is be ok her playing with friends as long as it were real life friends not some random on the internet. Whilst i appreciate the value too of online friends... Yeah i had some dodgy ones as a shy kid and my parents had no idea of course. I'd only allow that for when she is older.

I think it's better to bed involved than them go of and play these things at a friend's house and feel like they can't talk to mum and dad because they are either against know absolutely nothing about it.

I also wouldn't want it becoming their lives though. They have to be interested in outside world too but I'm not sure how I'd approach that.

For the meanwhile, my daughter watches only a bit of TV, not every day and she hardly really pays it much attention. Hope it will stay that way. It isn't a normal part of her day. I know others who have little telly addicts at 1 and i think personally there is lots of other things to do.

She does like playing with the remote control though and ps controller 😅 bit more because she can make the TV do things with it and buttons. The program itself is not as interesting.

Moderation and balance is my theory. I can't see myself denying my child something i like doing. And i find it strange that people are happy about the TV but not games. If she would prefer to play a game vs tv i would be all for that.

Jessica and fonxney - once your DCs are old enough to react to having a tablet or game taken off them versus having the TV switched off, I think you’ll see why gaming is put into a rather different category of screens than TV...

We have had a switch from Christmas time but it is a family switch and kept in the living room. A lot of the time we are on it is family based games (like just dance, Mario kart etc). Both mine have been fine coming off it when I ask and they know they only have short periods of time on it.

I think maybe the type of console and games makes a big difference. I imagine games with no specific ending or one long adventure (I’m sure there’s a gamer name) would be harder. Mario karts and just dance types games though often have a natural point at which the games ends eg after 3 dances or 3 tournaments etc).

Could you maybe get a console and keep if as a weekend thing - so like people do film night have a game afternoon once a week or something?

@foxney your point about TV is interesting. I do think different types of screen time seem to have different impact.

Eg if my kids watch David Attenborough they chat through it about the animals and come away fairly calm. Conversely there is one horrible cartoon they both like which they both come away after bouncing off the walls. It’s odd.