Pandering to toddler?

[Meredithgrey1]

DD is 20 months, and I was wondering yesterday, at what point do sensible adjustments to avoid a tantrum turn into pandering?

For example, yesterday, she went in the bath in her t shirt because she didn’t want it off. In fairness, she seemed particularly tired after her day at nursery and she did let me take it off after about 5 mins. In my mind I swung between “realistically it doesn’t actually matter if she wears a top in the bath, it’s not hurting anyone” and “ffs get a grip woman, she’s a toddler, you are the parent, she can’t wear clothes in the bath!”

I think I’ve decided I wasn’t really pandering because it was no bother, and, to me, pandering has more of a “bending over backwards” feeling. But she is very bossy and quite tantrum-y, all normal for a toddler I’m sure, but I’m never sure at what point sensible tantrum mitigation becomes unreasonable pandering that will create a monster!

Dd is growing out of that sort of thing but if she wanted to wear her top in the bath I'd tell her that if it gets wet at the front it would be wet over her face to take it off - which she really wouldn't like and if she still wants to I go with it.

I save being strict for the important stuff like safety, brushing teeth and when we have to be somewhere/do sonething on time. It seems to work.

She's older, nearly 5.

Mine eldest is only 4 so hard to say if I've created a monster yet but for now she's genuinely the most well behaved 4 year old I know. I can't remember the last time I had to talk to her about her behaviour.
She was a seriously tantrummy toddler, would throw herself on the ground and scream and kick if I cut her sandwich the "wrong" way. I took the path of least resistance with her. If it didn't really matter é.g t-shirt in bath, I'd let her do it. If it was serious e.g. Holding hands by the road, then it was hard and fast this is what we do no matter how loud you scream.
Not sure if that helps. But for now 🤞it seems to have worked for us.

At 20 months I don't see any issue if 3 or 4 I would be firmer. At 20 months it is harder to have a proper conversation and much better to save battles for more important issues as PP said.

You just need to pick your battles, I think.
If it isn't dangerous or going to cause damage, does it matter that much?

Me personally I would have taken it off and distracted with some toys in the bath etc but I wouldn't judge someone for doing what you did. We just gotta survive the day!

I'd allow a t-shirt in the bath to be honest. Ds always has breakfast with me at the table but for the first ever time this morning he point blank refused. This really has come out of nowhere! He's now having it in front of the tv. I can't see the harm as a one off but I'd never let it turn into a regular thing.

I think it only develops into pandering if it becomes OTT but of course that's subjective. I know someone who parents in a way I never would. Her own words regarding her toddler "we can't ever say no to him". If he wants to stay up until 1am playing with his toys they go with it. If he wants to get up and eat at 3am they go with it. If he refuses dinner he gets a special dinner after his bath which consists of whatever he wants. I'd never parent in this way as I think it creates real problems but of course those parents think they're doing the right thing so it's a very individual thing imo.

I try to listen to my gut instinct and I'm going to be honest in lockdown I think I do let more stuff go because I'm more tired than usual!

I wouldn't allow a tshirt in the bath. There are rules around what we wear in certain situations imo, and I wouldn't want to deal with a sodden tshirt after.

I'm strict. I do a lot of offering of options and a lot of freedom - for example DD is allowed to roam/play independently/do things that are ahead of her age - but the other side of that is that if I say "No" or "Come back" or whatever, she listens. There's a lot of natural consequences - if you don't tidy now mum will have to do it and you'll have less time to watch TV, for example.

She's only 3 so I may be creating a monster, idk.

Personally I picked my battles (still do), but once I'd decided it was a hill to die on and given a firm 'no', then I stuck to it. I don't always get it right, and there have been times where I've had a planking screaming toddler under my arms and it really wasn't worth it with hindsight, but I think it's important to be consistent. If it's no, it's no. I tried to avoid in the first place by offering a lot of limited choices/choices that aren't really a choice at all (shall I put on your left shoe or your right shoe first?).

T-shirt in the bath would have likely been a hill I chose to die on but regretted later TBH. It makes very little difference and it's not dangerous etc, but it would probably be the last thing at the end of a long day and there's a good chance I'd make the wrong call. Or maybe not, and take great annoyed delight in plonking them in to discover how poor their decision is 🤷🏻‍♀️ Either way, in the cold light of day, T-shirt bath was the best option.

I think you’re doing the right thing. Have you read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn? He talks about not saying no, unless it’s necessary. The basic premise is that it’s not necessary for us to insist on obedience from our children in lots of situations, and doing so just sets us up for unnecessary conflict with them where we feel compelled to exert our will over them. He argues we should say yes to our children where we can. In the situation you describe she wasn’t hurting herself or anyone else, she wasn’t in danger, and she wasn’t being unkind to anyone. Therefore by saying yes you’ve avoided an unnecessary conflict.

Watching with interest as it's something we struggle with.

DD is a year older so I may be forgetting what she was like at that age, but I would've said no to the t-shirt in the bath. Not because I care about it as a one off, but because nothing is ever a one-off. The t-shirt one day would've lead to trousers then pants etc, then drying the clothes, refusing to take them off once in the bath etc etc etc. It definitely would've been easier to just say no the first time and weather the screaming.

I’ve also been wondering about this. Watching with interest!

I follow the '10%' train of thought. Figure out what's in your 10% basically, usually serious stuff. Physical behaviour, aggression. Let the 90% go. It just doesn't matter.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=U0S-flRiD4s&feature=youtu.be

Slightly different as she's talking about positive reinforcement. But having said that, you can always find the positive behaviour in not so great situations.

This is something I struggle with every day so this is a great thread to read. I have two autistic DS and the 5 yo is basically a large 2 year old who can't speak. I feel like I'm constantly walking a tightrope of trying to prevent a meltdown but not always let him have what he wants!

I'd probably have done the same.as you, OP, though would have explained that it'd be wet and yucky to take off in the bath. I can usually talk mine into making what we call, 'good choices' but pick my battles when it's not happening.

I would try and take the t-shirt off. If she refuses I would distract for a few minutes then I would be able to take the t-shirt off and put her in the bath.

This is what I do with my 2 year old when dressing her and undressing her. She randomly decides she doesn't like particular clothes to put on or take off so distracting her for a few minutes before doing it works.

I think T shirt in bath is ok. I pandered to my toddlers (except if they hurt another child - that was my absolute red line) and they are all very well behaved now as pre teen / teens.

I "invest in tantrums" i.e brushing teeth is a must, so is holding hands on a road, getting dressed warmly. So I will insist on these despite tantrums and help her through her tantrums. Anything else I must admit I just let it go..... I'm so reassured to read this thread as I was worried I was too lax, even though I love the peaceful life we lead and my DD seems so happy and rarely tantrums because she accepts some things just have to be.
Hope you find your balance OP

Thanks for all the replies.
I definitely have things I’m firm on (safety things, teeth brushing etc, plus the other day when she wanted to take her book in the bath ).
I sort of vaguely try to not say no unnecessarily, but when I do say no I stick to it.
With the t shirt, she needed her hair washing which she hates so I knew a tantrum was coming, I was just trying to start of the hair wash with a calm child, rather than an already cross one. I hadn’t fully considered the possibility that I may have inadvertently started a habit though!

This is hard as often they're tired and there will be a continuous tantrum until they're asleep, whatever you do.

I would have explained the consequences of wearing it in the bath (it'll get wet and cold, you won't be able to wear it tomorrow, you won't be able to wash your tummy) but let her if she insisted. Not worth the hassle. Most of the time of it's not unsafe, I let them face consequences of own actions (eg go out without coat, I'll carry it and you tell me when you're cold - maybe not when it's freezing like now though!)

For what it's worth, we do bathtime every 3-4 days and only rinse DC hair with water and occasionally a bit of conditioner (once every few months if it gets knotty). They don't seem dirty or greasy and it's less stress than doing it all daily, which is supposed to be bad for the skin anyway.

My ds insists on having dry cerial with a cup of milk by the side. Halfway through, he pours the milk on the cerial, every single day. I argued it to begin with but it meant we were always starting the day with tears. I just let him do it now as it isn't hurting anyone. Anything safety or hygiene related I put my foot Down. Eg. He would happily have a dirty nappy for ages. Hates having it changed after having a poo... We have that tantrum every time, because he cannot sit in shit!
Pick your battles

Parenting a toddler is all about surviving, sometimes hour by hour. Pick your battles as many have said.
My son has turned into Tantrum Terry at the moment- he is 2 next month, and like others I am firm with important stuff, but other stuff like he wants to wear his wellies and nappy to watch peppa pig, he can crack on!

I wouldn't allow a t-shirt in the bath because all it usually needs is a bit of distraction to get it off, and I am too lazy to deal with a soaking wet t-shirt. I also have a 4 year old who still has the occasional tantrum, so even the worst tantrum a 20 month old can throw seems really tame in comparison!
Having said that, I don't think allowing a t-shirt in the bath is too lax as long as you are consistent about the more important things.

I don't think this ever happened in our house. I think I probably picked my battles too. This one just didn't come up!
How can you be too lazy to deal with a wet T shirt W&V? Here it would just have been lobbed straight into the laundry basket.