Are routines over rated? Five months old.

[nocturnalke]

I'm a true believer in routines. Bedtime routine works great. Although the timing is different every night as it depends on her feeds and naps during the day.but she settles very well and sleeps through apart from one feed at half 3.

Every day I try to get DD into a routine and every day it doesn't happen. Her nap times are dreadful - ages to settle and then only has 20 mins max. Her feeds are never the same because nap times aren't the same.

Just opinions really on the napping situation and the routine situation please. Sod the routines? Take each day as it comes? I feel if theres no routine I'll never get her ready for when I go back to work. I know that nursery staff are prepared for this and I know she's not the first but my mum is going to have her one day a week and it's embarrassing if I say 'by the way she does what she wants when she wants'. I just feel like a bad mother.

Every day is a battle. Why does no one warn you about this part? I honestly thought if babies were tired they sleep. My mum always said that me and brother were well away at nap times.

Today for example I've just lost all patience after trying to settle her when she wakes up from nap (cause I can tell she's still shattered). I picked her up and put her in her bouncer downstairs and walk away to calm down. I know later she'll be shattered but she's just not settling. I really give up. I cry every day but I think that's cause of lockdown as well. My partner thinks I'm annoying and is sick of me going on about it. And because I've used my energy on the nap situation, I really struggle to play with her etc in between nap times.

All this research online saying about routine and nap times. Like two hours awake before next nap. But this doesn't exist in this house. I just give up on it. Shall I just let it be? Let her be tired throughout the day to save my sanity.

What are peoples thoughts/experiences?

Thank you

Just to add - what's the overtired/undertired thing about? I can never find the prime moment to put her down. Whatever I do, it's wrong

There is a magic app called Huckleberry which will tell you when to put them down which actually seems to work! Don't bother with the questionnaire as that relates to the paid bit, just do the free nap predicting.

I never bothered with routine really. My first child slept when he was tired. The second one was a bit more routine led/happier when things happened in a predictable manner, but I discovered this app and it helped me see what his pattern was. Then as we started solids, mealtimes added a bit of routine in but I've never been strict with it. I find the whole idea very stifling.

Huckleberry is really good. Im just not good enough to remember to use it though.

I think babies sort of set their own routines. Mine didnt really fall into a routine until he was 6ish month old. Before then he was having 45min naps that were here, there and everywhere. I think its a developmental thing.

Thank you both. I will look into the app. It's really nice to hear others experiences. Some days I just feel so overwhelmed with it all x

Hi,

Where are you putting baby down to nap?
My daughter is 16 weeks on Saturday and for about a week now I’ve started putting her in her next to me upstairs for her naps and she’ll go for anything between 40 and 90 minutes each time. It has to be dark and I put white noise on and she also has a love to dream swaddle bag she goes in. I put her down when she starts yawning and rubbing her eyes. She used to nap in her bouncer but would cry until she fell asleep and then would only last 20 mins but since changing environment she settles straight away and sleeps better. She only had an awake time of between 1 hour and 1 hour 45 at a stretch before she’s gets ready again. She does seem a much happier baby since having better naps. Hope there’s something there you could try! Good luck.

I think having a good morning and evening routine is important, especially once they are older and with nursery, school, etc. and are into the habit. But I've never been a stickler for day time naps. They have them when they have them and wherever they have them, but always sleep at night in bed with the same routine. They usually fall into a pattern if they go to bed and wake up at the same time.

I second huckleberry! It was a game changer for me. It's also good to remember that every baby is different. Lots of books say that by 5 months babies should be on 3 naps and 2+ hours wake time between each one. My little boy just recently turned 5 months and if I keep him up for more than 2 hours he completely looses his shit and is really hard to put down. Until a couple of weeks ago he was on 5 naps a day, each one 30 mins, and awake window of no more than 90 mins and it's suited him perfectly. Like yours, he sleeps really well at night!
About 2 weeks ago I noticed that he was getting difficult to put down so I stretched his wake times out a bit- usually just under 2 hours. He has also started sleeping a bit longer for about half his naps, so a typical day might be 8am awake, 09.45-10.15 nap, 12.00-13.00 nap, 15.00-16.00 nap, 17.45-18.15 nap, bed at 20.00! It works well for him, and I when I get the awake windows right he goes down really easily.

The internet tells me he should be having 2 one and a half hour naps morning and afternoon, slightly shorter evening nap, and 2.5 hours awake time before bed. I can confirm that I can count on one hand the number of 90 minute naps he's ever had in his life, and if I kept him awake for two and a half hours before bed time we would be in for 2 hours of screaming bloody murder by bedtime 😂

Just to add, he also has his naps in his crib in the bedroom in the dark with white noise etc

@knockeduplockeddown

I second huckleberry! It was a game changer for me. It's also good to remember that every baby is different. Lots of books say that by 5 months babies should be on 3 naps and 2+ hours wake time between each one. My little boy just recently turned 5 months and if I keep him up for more than 2 hours he completely looses his shit and is really hard to put down. Until a couple of weeks ago he was on 5 naps a day, each one 30 mins, and awake window of no more than 90 mins and it's suited him perfectly. Like yours, he sleeps really well at night! About 2 weeks ago I noticed that he was getting difficult to put down so I stretched his wake times out a bit- usually just under 2 hours. He has also started sleeping a bit longer for about half his naps, so a typical day might be 8am awake, 09.45-10.15 nap, 12.00-13.00 nap, 15.00-16.00 nap, 17.45-18.15 nap, bed at 20.00! It works well for him, and I when I get the awake windows right he goes down really easily.

The internet tells me he should be having 2 one and a half hour naps morning and afternoon, slightly shorter evening nap, and 2.5 hours awake time before bed. I can confirm that I can count on one hand the number of 90 minute naps he's ever had in his life, and if I kept him awake for two and a half hours before bed time we would be in for 2 hours of screaming bloody murder by bedtime 😂

*loses

You don't need an app to tell you what your baby needs. Just look at the baby instead. She will tell you what she needs and when. Just go with that and , yes, take each day as it comes.

My DD is 5 months too and I'm doing naps purely on wake times and that's working for us. I know she needs to go down roughly 2-2.5 hours after being awake so I look out for her tired cues then, although I think she is starting to want to go a bit longer. Length of naps massively varies so some days she might have 4 shorter ones and others could be 3 longer ones.

Im in the sod it camp. Forget what your baby "should" be doing and pay attention to what she is actually doing.

Have you got an enclosed garden? Would you be up for trying scandanavian style napping in the pram? Some babies really do sleep better in the fresh air.

Naps drove me mad too. Especially with DC1. All that trying to organise your day around getting them to go to sleep.

Some things that worked for us:

• The first nap of the day is surprisingly close to when they wake up in the morning. I can't remember the actual timings, but something like an hour after they wake up. Bonkers, I know.
• We didn't have a set 'nap time' per se, it was all relative to when they'd woken up/ woken up from last nap. I think its' the 1-2-3 thing at this age? I.e. nap 1 is 1hr after wake-up. Nap 2 is 2hrs after 1st nap wake up, etc. We had two short and 1 long and that would vary day to day. So e.g. wake up at 7.30, first nap 8.30-9.15, second nap 11.15-1.15, third nap 4.15-5, bedtime 7.30ish. Eventually they stretch out how long they can go between naps and/or nap for longer so you reduce the naps. And so on.
• Do whatever it takes to get them to nap for the next few weeks. You'll then develop the habit. They need to learn how to nap. All this 'babies sleep when they're tired' stuff is total nonsense
• 'Whatever it took' was different for my two DC. But things including: walking with them in a sling; feeding them to sleep and letting them nap on me (make sure you've got the remote/ your phone/ kindle handy first!); swaddling; rocking to sleep and depositing in cot (this took a lot of effort but was worth it in the long run); low light or blackout curtains; walking in the pram; a baby swing; dummy
• There are endless sleep regressions and 'wonder weeks' in this first year. Try to push on through and just do whatever it takes to make them nap, even if you think that you're establishing 'bad habits' (e.g. feeding to sleep), it's better to have them nap than not.

I usually hate baby apps and think they are a load of tosh but I love this one.

Don't worry too much about it OP! The bedtime bit is important, but when she starts nursery she will come to fit into their routine anyway. If she won't nap at home, can you bung her in the pram and go for a walk/get your milk etc? I never had any sort of routine with my small babies as I wanted freedom to be out and about (more difficult these days with Covid, I know) but as soon as they were 9 months and started nursery the routine came by itself.

@MeringueCloud

You don't need an app to tell you what your baby needs. Just look at the baby instead. She will tell you what she needs and when. Just go with that and , yes, take each day as it comes.

But if you are a new parent with little support and you aren't confident that you know what your baby needs just by looking at them, then apps like huckleberry can be a great support. I, for example, was waiting for my baby to "look tired" before putting him down for a nap. What I didn't realise was but the time he was rubbing his eyes and appearing obviously tired, he was completely over tired and really struggled to sleep. I was surprised when I started using the app because it was telling me that it was nap time but my baby seemed wide awake. Much to my surprise, the first few times, I would put him down, wide awake, thinking "no way will this work" and he would coo and smile a bit and then be asleep in 5-10 mins. I now realise that he has some much more subtle sleep cues that I hadn't noticed previously, and don't use the app any more because I am much more confident in what I am doing, but I can definitely say that I wouldn't be here if I hadn't decided to give it a try.

I know you are trying to be helpful but comments about how you should just "know your baby" can make parents feel a bit shit if they are struggling, because it can feel like you are being told that if you were a better mother you wouldn't be having those issues.

Thank you all for the responses.
She sleeps in her cot in a dark room with Mozart lullabies playing. She's always listened to lullabies since a newborn so she's used to them. She also has a dummy and she likes snuggling with the Muslim cloth.

I think I'll look into that app but try not get stressed if she doesn't go down when 'supposed to'. I need to be banned from google cause it really is getting to me. My partner asked me the other if I was enjoying being a mum and I admitted to him that at the moment I'm not. I think it's lockdown as well though.

Thank you everyone for letting me get it off my chest. I hope you are all safe and well.

@lockuplockeddown

Yeah I really don't know the signs tbh. And yeah sometimes I feel like I'm failing as a mum because I can't even get nap times right. Thank you

[quote nocturnalke]@lockuplockeddown

Yeah I really don't know the signs tbh. And yeah sometimes I feel like I'm failing as a mum because I can't even get nap times right. Thank you[/quote]
The struggle is real. You are clearly doing a great job though, and the fact that she is sleeping through the night is fab. But the daytime struggle is absolutely exhausting, and lockdown makes it so much worse so I feel your pain. I would definitely try putting her down with less awake time to see if it makes a difference, but also remember that it's trial and error and anyone who gets it right first time has had luck on their side, not better parenting x

**She also has a dummy and she likes snuggling with the Muslim cloth.

As an aside, it does make me chuckle when someone's autocorrect changes muslin cloth to Muslim. Makes me think of some sort of baby sleep service where a nice Asian lady will come round and sort the baby for you

I second the huckleberry app. IMO at that age awake windows are much more important than exact timings for naps. So your day will be different every day, yes, but it will follow a pattern. Even more so when you begin weaning at 6mo. If you get the timings of naps right they will most likely be less of a nightmare too. Don’t worry she will fall into a natural routine before you know it!

I'm a childminder and honestly don't worry about routines for going into childcare. I find it much easier when kids don't have a strict routine as it's easier to get them all into a sort of routine together that works round the things we have to do in the day.
It's not embarrassing at all. Parents get so overly stressed about getting children into routines where they do the same thing at the same time everyday, but sometimes life just isn't like that. I don't sleep at the same time every night. I don't get hungry at the same time everyday.

Haha didn't see the autocorrect!
Well I downloaded the app and filled out from last night sleep/feed and said to put her down at 1:50 and she did go down! A fluke maybe for the first time? But still an improvement. I'll take anything at the moment!

I need to research into weaning. No idea where to begin. Isn't it funny how parenting is the hardest job in the world but you don't train for it?!

Both my DC fell k to their own natural routine around 6-7 months; until then I didn’t really worry too much. It was only about those ages that I recognised my DCs sleep cues too. Until then I muddled through each day as I found it stressful trying to push a routine that my DC weren’t interested in

I agree with other posters who’ve said the baby sets the routine themselves - and it comes naturally with time. My baby has been in a fairly predictable routine since about 7 months I would say - his naps and the time he goes to bed and wakes in the morning are all roughly the same time now. His first nap of the day is always 9.30ish, his second is at 2ish, he goes to bed at 7ish and wakes at around 6.30-7am.

I’ve hardly ever woken him from naps either, I always let him wake up naturally (unless we’ve had a doctors appointment or something like that!) I have friends who only let their babies sleep for 45 minutes in the morning and 1.5 hours at lunch, but personally I prefer a more relaxed approach.