3 year old dreadful, failed as a parent

[Xansaf]

I don’t know what to do with my 3 year old anymore. Until a few months ago I thought we were doing ok but it’s getting worse and worse. I’m looking for what I can do to tackle this. I know the root cause is me being a crap mum.

She will not remember her manners. We have to prompt her for please and thank you all the time and says she doesn’t know how to ask nicely. She does and we model it all the time. She just won’t.

She’s majorly defiant. Ask her to do something and she’ll do the exact opposite just to be spiteful.

The worst thing is just her general bratty attitude. Half the time her only answer to anything is a horrible “NO” and when the slightest thing doesn’t go her way she either goes into a sulk and says for example “I’m never playing with that toy ever again!” or flies into a raging tantrum.

We’ve tried naughty corner, reasoning with her, consequences, rewards, modelling what we want of her and nothing works. When it comes to discipline she does not care. About anything. The only thing we can do is try to avoid setting her off but we’re constantly walking on eggshells if we do that. And half the time it’s something out of our control, like her piece of paper moved whilst she was drawing.

I know a lot of you probably have never had these issues and I’m well aware it’s due to my bad parenting so if that’s your input please do scroll by.

As an addendum we’ve had no complaints from school so I think she’s ok there.

I agree with the PPs who say it's a phase. Three is a tough age. Things that helped for us:

Significantly lower expectations and lots of praise for anything remotely right.

Are they sleeping enough? Maybe a short nap mid afternoon would help with evening time.

Limit screen time

Give choices like do you want to put in your shoes inside or outside etc (where both options involve them doing what you want)

Validating their feelings "you feel angry, I can see that and that is ok, but we don't hit mummy"

And just lots and lots of consistency for six to twelve months... and all of a sudden it stops and they are agreeable again (most of the time!).

You're not a bad parent! This too shall pass!

My 6yo Dd is like this, and always has been. She's in yr1 at school and it came up in parents evening. General bad attitude tbh. However, she's old enough to understand now that it's just not how you behave. So we're having a pretty major crack down. Zero tolerance to any back chat. And she must ask for things nicely. I've pretty much told her that this is how we require her to behave to other adults, irrespective of how she feels about it.

It's not your parenting op. It's personality. My ds is not like this at all! However parenting a child like this does take serious skills, I feel anyway!

I am speed reading a pile of parenting books. When dd was younger I read 'how to talk so little kids will listen', after hearing about it on here. It was really helpful in enlisting her good behaviour. I also got a lot out of 123 magic, which has more of a discipline strategy that we still use to this day, and a lot of positive parenting as the other side of that coin.

My current pile includes 'playful parenting', 'freeing your child from negative thinking', 'the book you wish your parents had read'.

She's 3. 3 year olds are arseholes. If she tantrums, leave her to it and then when she's finished, give her a love and talk about it. She doesn't really have much empathy at the moment - that comes later - she can only really think about herself and her wants and needs but doesn't yet have the communication skills needed to express them properly.

I don't think it sounds too out of the ordinary.

My son is worse when he's tired, hungry, overstimulated or needs the toilet. We get rolling around on the floor wailing because I picked up the yellow train and he wanted me to have the red train etc. He sometimes runs all round the house to avoid putting his shoes on or getting in the bath.

I think you've got to decide where your boundaries are and stand firm. I say "oh well, this isn't a very fun game" and walk away if he's having silly tantrums. If he won't put his shoes on then we simply don't go to the park. If he won't get in his lovely bubbly bath, then I pull the plug out and he just gets a sink wash. I try to see it as a learning process, like learning to walk/talk etc.

I also try to put into words how he is feeling and help him solve it. So if he's overtired, we'll have a drink of milk and a story or an audiobook,

Also try to offer choices. If its not important, let her decide. Such as what to wear. Whether she wants to do something now or in ten minutes time.

If something needs to happen and you're struggling, then give a choice and a consequence. Not a punishment, something that will happen as a result. For example if you don't get your shoes on we won't be able to go to the park. Fine. That's up to her.

If you can let something happen as a natural consequence so she learns a lesson and you don't have to discipline, that's the best way. She won't wear a coat? She'll be cold, then she'll know for next time.

She's 3. They are notoriously awful at that age (four isn't much better FYI but you are at least able to reason with them a tiny little bit). They are little balls of emotion at that age and they don't know what to do with it so it comes out as temper. Nothing you describe sounds particularly bad or out of the ordinary, though I appreciate that when you're in the midsts of it it does feel so much worse.

My DD is 4 and most definitely has her moments. Several of them. Daily. We do things like offer choices, give her count downs to things like bath time and bed time etc. It doesn't work all the time but it can help to diffuse things.

Just keep modelling the behaviour you want to see and nipping anything really bad like throwing, hitting etc in the bud and eventually they start to do it too. Kind of like osmosis.

She's three. It's normal, annoying but normal. She's like a mini teenager, looking for boundaries. You're not a rubbish parent at all. Some three year olds are much more difficult than others.

My eldest DS was a pain at three, refusing to say please and thank you is something I remember well. We didn't try to force it, just modelled it, and he eventually started saying it of his own accord.

We got all the horrors out of the way as a three year old, he was a very easy teenager.

Keep modelling the please and thank you’s and reminding her but don’t get too annoyed, she is still little and I think you are expecting too much from a 3 year old in terms of manners, some adults haven’t even honed that skill!

Read 1,2,3 magic & the incredible years both books could offer you some useful strategies.

When she’s shouting / screaming say I’m not listening dd use your kind voice and then mummy will listen, she keeps screaming? Just ignore her but every minute or so say have you calmed down yet? Are you ready to use your calm voice? just keep modelling everything to her so she eventually gets the idea (even when you would get more response banging your head off a brick wall) she’ll eventually understand shouting isn’t getting her what she wants.

The end of the world situations such as the paper moving, move the paper back to its original position and tell her it’s no big deal and she can draw again now.

If you are struggling with transitions, ie one thing ending and another thing starting, use a sand timer / digital timer, so ten mins until bed or ten mins until tea probably won’t mean anything to her but if you set the timer to 10 minutes (you can get the ones that give an alarm sound once time is up) it will help her visualise what 10 minutes actually is and she’ll know when her time is up.

You’ve just perfectly described my son when he was 3. Honestly he was a little bastard. I could have given him away very happily. He was a lovely child until he turned 3. Fortunately that defiant and belligerent phase went by fairly quickly. I used to think he hated me and I was a shit mother.

We managed to navigate our way through it though and we’re very close now. He’s 21 and a lovely, happy and loving young man.

I promise things will get better for you. This phase will pass. 💐💐💐

Personally I really hate super nanny, I could never do that stuff with DD. It’s just too harsh for me.

Yep, normal 3 year old. My 2.6 can be super sassy sometimes. But you have to just laugh through it, add some humour in. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Let her show her feelings, don’t feel scared of a tantrum- once you accept that tantrums happen a huge weight will be lifted. Even if she has one in public.

Also, DD is quite good with please and thank yous but understandably can be shy sometimes- so we just say thank you for her and I wouldn’t think much more of it tbh. People won’t think you’re rude.

We find empathy works best- ‘oh the paper split when you were drawing, oh no, I hate it when that happens’. Lots of cuddles and reassurance works for us too, sometimes little kids just need to feel what they’re feeling.

Also just flat out bribery is how we get through the day sometimes Like today for example she started running off from me at the park. I threatened no more sweets when we get home and she came running back straight away.

She's 3. It's probably not your parenting and she probably can't yet control a lot of the temper stuff (unless you're about to say she's 4 tomorrow).

My now 4y Ds1 was lovely at 2, horrible at 3 and ok again at 4.my 2y10m Ds2 is starting to behave like Ds1 did from ~2y10m-3y6m. It's a big time for them developmentally.

I think you need to learn to laugh about it a bit more and put things in perspective.

I don't have a teenager yet but I work with them and I was a horrible teen at home myself. All the behaviours you're experiencing now you will also experience later on but you won't have the ability to physically control them as you do now; good time to practice some strategies...

My almost 3 year old is exactly the same but good as gold at pre school! Everytime I endure a tantrum and give him time out, I remind myself of the positive outcome it will lead too eventually.... He is learning something from it even if it's exhausting to me. It means I'm likely to see it through.
3 year olds are pushing the boundaries so we re-enforce the needed boundaries which they then learn from, it's a tough age to parent though. Mine will say the opposite even if he doesn't really mean too, it's like a bad habit to say the opposite of what I'm asking him!

This is the age when you have to ask guided questions

"Put your shoes on" will get you a "NO"
"which shoes?" will probably get a meltdown (too much choice)
"do you want to wear the red or the blue?" should get a positive response - I used to hold them up and just say "red or blue?"
"red or green tights?" etc

My DS is exactly the same! Although he hits aswell, not hard but just to annoy me.

He doesnt even tantrum anymore. He has found new ways to wind people up as I can quite easily ignore a tantrum so he has developed annoying things that I find hard to ignore. Telling me to 'go away' because I said no to having a 2nd ice lolly or hitting me (very gently I may add which makes me know that it's not out of anger, just trying to wind me up) when he doesnt get his own way. He back chats constantly, doesnt not respond at all to punishment.
An example: I took a toy away from him last week because he hit me. He said okay and calmly handed it to me and carried on with the hitting.
Another example: He was trying to run over my feet with his ride on car because i'd told him that he wasnt allowed to go for a walk as dinner was cooking. So I said father Christmas is watching you, and he decided if you've been good enough for presents on Christmas day. He said okay mom, I'll just open yours if I haven't got any.

The above sound like minor things but I'm finding it hard how to put his behaviour into words. I can only describe it as fucking awful.

Sorry I dont have any advice but know your not alone. Not an hour goes by in my house without a drama.

Try one two three magic.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=123+magic&adgrpid=53919449515&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIreDZ-ad7QIV02DmCh2ULQs9EAAYASAAEgK8-fDDBwE&hvadid=259011884094&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007115&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=8521168518559902215&hvtargid=kwd-301950040217&hydadcr=1701786934&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pddsl2j66ut2ey55_e

It was a life saver for me when mine were going through this phase. My DD1 was particularly bad aged 4.

The technique totally diffuses the situation- a bit cheesy and American but I found it invaluable.

I have used it at school too with tricky pupils ( I work in SEN)

Sounds like a typical 3 yo to me! I’ve had two of them so far and another one nearly 3 and already starting with this stuff. Yes it’s bloody annoying but they grow out of it. I think they are just trying to learn about independence and trying to assert themselves.....don’t take it too seriously and just keep reminding them who is boss! (Not that they really care half the time )

DS was a complete nightmare at 3. I didn't enjoy parenting at all until he was about 6 and thought it was all my fault. He now 8 and an absolute delight. Some kids are just hard bloody work when they're little. I don't think DS particularly enjoyed being 3 and is much more suited to being an older child. Keep on keeping on. You'll get there.

We have a 5 year old who still does all that stuff, which is much more of an issue. I can recommend this book, absolute breakthrough for us www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0738218235/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_Yj73Fb7GEVT7Q?psc=1&_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Also, I believe that's why they make 3 year olds look so cute, as if not, as a PP said, you'd happily give them away.

I second the recommendation to read the Incredible Years parenting book. It will give you lots of skills in a framework to help guide and reassure you.

I read the book mentioned by others and it helped give me different strategies. My 3 year is not much different to yours; it’s incredibly tiring not knowing what will set off a tantrum and I worry all the time that I’m getting it wrong but then I see other 3 year olds who are the same and every time I’ve got on top of one thing then something else comes up.
I did notice though that a couple of tv programmes (Bing and little princess) were making my DD more rude as she was copying how they talk.

OP, I am guessing that an awful lot of people are struggling with lockdowns and young children.

Things like manners are so, so much easier to reinforce when you're actually able to be out and about with children. You know - you get them to ask for things in shops, etc, etc, etc - so manners are put into practice all the time, rather than being something that the weird adults at home go on about. As it is, even if you go out, all the adults are wearing sodding masks, so children aren't even learning about facial expressions or how to talk properly.

All the behaviour you describe is normal. However, the situation you and your daughter are in is very much not normal.

I really do feel for anyone trying to contend with this horrible situation and small children.

I could have written this myself. My DD was very lovely until she hit age 3. It was like she turned into a completely different child overnight! It is a really difficult phase and I was the same as you and thought it was my parenting! But now I think it is just them being 3 and it's a phase, like PP said above, DH and I like to call it threenagers.

Anyway, my DD is just starting to improve and get away from this phase and I'm starting to cope better and I think what really helped is just realising that there are different phases and while I might think that I have everything under control/hacked parenting, DD will always hit a new phase where we have to adjust how to handle her. We started trying to have more boundaries with her w/c she is just starting to understand but honestly it is really hard and when nothing works, I try to take a break from her and pass her to DH (vice versa!)

She is not the problem - you are.

You haven't failed her. All of these behaviours are normal at 3. Also, we think they're too young to be affected but imo young children are feeding off our stress at the moment. It's affecting their sense of security, which is making many of them act out even more than usual.

The one thing I would say is try to avoid getting into a cycle of negative parenting. This is something I've really been trying to snap out of recently and I think it's making a difference. Repeatedly labelling a child as "bad" or "difficult" is imo one of the easiest ways to create a difficult child. Far better to take the mindset that they are essentially good and helpful but have their "difficult" moments. So lots of praise for good and helpful behaviour, calm discipline without shouting (although it can be hard!) for unacceptable behaviour and don't sweat the small stuff.

Two examples of difficult behaviour from my almost 3 yo DS today:

1. Repeatedly barging past other children at the playground and climbing up the slide despite being asked repeatedly not to. We dealt with this one with an "Oh no, we're not playing very nicely, are we? Time-out for 2 minutes until we can play nicely". He stopped doing it after the time-out, but if it had continued, the next step would have been to leave the playground.

2. Deliberately turning the box of Duplo upside down and pouring it all over the floor after being asked to be careful with it. Just to get a reaction from me. This was just before snack time. Rather then shout, I went with "Oh no, what a shame. The floor is very messy. No snack until it's clean, I'm afraid". Strange to say, DS managed to clear it up fairly quickly when he realised there would be no biscuit unless he did so. Once he'd finished, he got lots of praise and the snack.

I'm also trying to keep my cool a lot more with tantrums and remember that DS is a small child unable to process his feelings properly. So not giving in to tantrums, but saying "I'm sorry you're feeling sad. Do you want to give Mummy a hug" when he has them. It does seem to work better and to prevent things escalating to shouting on my part.