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Original poster

Toddler's routine seems to have become a disaster - please help!

30 replies

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 18:56

DS is 2y4m. Until about June (so just before he turned two) he was a brilliant sleeper, had a two hour nap daily and then slept from 8-7. He then dropped the nap and it's never felt quite like we adjusted to a new routine, but in the last few weeks (maybe about the last six weeks?) it's gone to hell!

He started waking in the night when he dropped his nap (we tried very hard to keep him having it, but nothing doing). Recently he would wake up multiple times saying his nappy needed changing, so we took that as a sign to start potty training, which has gone very well but the night wakings have got much worse since then (he finds various reasons to call us in, but needing a wee or having a wet nappy are the most frequent). We're now in this cycle where he's totally exhausted all the time, but if he sleeps during the day (which he will only do in the car, and can't be transferred from the car anymore so it's not a great solution!) he wakes even more in the night and is worse the next day. If he doesn't then, like today, he's inconsolable with over-tiredness by 4/5pm, which also means he won't really eat dinner. It feels like we've got stuck and just need to find something and stick to it, but I'm not sure what - neither trying to push through without the nap or taking him out to get him to sleep seem to be the solution, but maybe we're not sticking with one or the other for long enough?

The broken nights aren't great but my bigger concern is the effect on him in the day - nursery have also commented that by the end of the day his behaviour is really different because he's just so tired. He's otherwise a really happy, good natured little boy so it's horrible to see this effect on him.

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Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 19:00

Just to say, we've also tried earlier bedtimes and it doesn't seem to help (it just elongates the period of upset/resistance before he finally goes to sleep) - there's also the problem that three days a week we don't get home until 6, so there's a limit on how early bedtime can realistically be.

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KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 19:25

Does he have a nap/rest after lunch at Nursery?

Most under 3s still need an after lunch nap or quiet time.

If he's at home, I would institute 'quiet time' after lunch - him in his cot with toys/books, you on your bed. Nothing exciting going on. He might even drop off some days.

Would he have a (short) power nap at 4ish in the buggy?

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 19:32

Thank you so much for offering advice - this is going to sound like I'm rejecting it all, which I'm really not, I'd be so happy to find something that helps!

No, he doesn't sleep at nursery, though I think they do have a quieter activity during nap time for those that don't sleep.

We tried quiet time in his cot and he went absolutely mental so we quickly gave up.

If he has even five minutes of sleep after about 3pm he then won't sleep until about 10pm, which then makes the next day a nightmare (and seems to mean he wakes early for some unfathomable reason)

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KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 19:46

OK, but at his age he still needs some day time sleep/down time. If he doesn't, he's going to become overtired and then his night time sleep will go to pot (as you've discovered...)

What about...
Quiet time with you on your bed + a story tape (you respond in a boring way to him - 'It's quiet time now, mummy and Minihardback are having a rest.'

thinkingcapon · 22/11/2020 19:53

I know it's shit, but on the days you do have him can you drive to get him to sleep? I know it's a pain but may help the even shittier nights?!

smeerf · 22/11/2020 20:03

They really need a nap until they're 3. My DS is 2y9m and refuses to nap at home with me, luckily he does at nursery and his dad can often get him to drop off by lying on the sofa with him with the curtains drawn watching boring cooking shows.

I have to make sure we're driving home between 12:30 and 1:30, and I take the long route home until he falls asleep.. I then wait in the car with him until he's slept for at least 30-40m, then wake him up.

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 20:11

We sometimes do drive him to sleep (we both work four days a week so DS has one day in the week with DH, one with me) but I'm never sure that it's the right thing to do - it makes the afternoon much nicer because he's much happier then, but then he goes to sleep late and seems to wake up more in the night so is even more tired the next day.

I think you're right that we need to do some sort of quiet time, but I'm just not sure how to make him play ball! He's wonderful but he's the kind of toddler who never stops - he spends all day either running around or talking at me! He will sit and do jigsaws or draw for quite a while and he likes being read to, would that count as quiet time?

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KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 20:14

You want something really boring so that if his body needs it, he will drop off. Lights off in his bedroom, you in a chair, him in his cit and story tapes? (Bet you drop off too!)

Lazypuppy · 22/11/2020 20:16

I would definitely push for nursery to get him to nap, get him back into the routine - nusery staff has magic powers of getting most kids to sleep.

My dd is nearly 3 and hates napping at home, but always naps with her friends at nursery after lunch

Lazypuppy · 22/11/2020 20:16

Oh and at night i would just ignore. You know wee/nappy are just excuses, he'll fall back to sleep eventually

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 20:21

@KingscoteStaff

You want something really boring so that if his body needs it, he will drop off. Lights off in his bedroom, you in a chair, him in his cit and story tapes? (Bet you drop off too!)

I bet I would too (I'm 28 weeks pregnant!) - I think he'll go mad at that, but it's worth a try. He's not in a cot any more, unfortunately, which won't help.

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Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 20:24

@Lazypuppy

Oh and at night i would just ignore. You know wee/nappy are just excuses, he'll fall back to sleep eventually

He takes his nappy off, so we can't leave him once he's awake!

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Lazypuppy · 22/11/2020 20:26

Have you tried putting a vest or babygrow on him backwards so he can't reach the nappy?

KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 20:30

Or put him back in his sleeping bag!

mamapisspants · 22/11/2020 20:33

Have you had his tonsils/adenoids checked? Could it be that he's having a disturbed sleep because of breathing issues? My Lo was the same until we realised he had periods of sleep apnea that were causing him to wake up in a panic because he couldn't breathe, etc. he'd struggle to settle and fall asleep again.

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 20:38

I don't know if I feel ok leaving him wet at night - it is an excuse, I know, but he really does hate the feeling, I think all the more so now he's potty trained in the day.

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KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 20:41

Have you tried the super absorbent night nappies, with a one way liner inside? Or what about a dream wee when you go up to bed?

rottiemum88 · 22/11/2020 20:44

@Hardbackwriter

I don't know if I feel ok leaving him wet at night - it is an excuse, I know, but he really does hate the feeling, I think all the more so now he's potty trained in the day.

Carry on as you are then? 🤷🏼‍♀️ I'm not sure what you're expecting people to say...

KingscoteStaff · 22/11/2020 20:46

One more thing - if he’s having a good lunch, you don’t need to get too stressed about his tea - can just be sandwiches or rice cakes and yoghurt + fruit.

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 20:47

I think he's waking up and then weeing - the couple of times he's slept through recently he was dry in the morning - rather than the wee being the inherent problem, so I was hoping it was something I could fix in his sleep routine - I'll give the quiet time a go for instance, and I'm also open to the idea that we should consistently drive him to sleep/ask nursery to try harder for naps. I'm honestly not trying to dismiss or resist advice, but I feel that there's something wrong with his routine that's causing the night waking, and I'm not quite sure what, so I don't feel like just ignoring him at night is the right way/feels fair

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tmh88 · 22/11/2020 20:50

I was really sceptical about groclocks but saw them loads on here and I tried it even though I was convinced it wouldn’t work! However it really did work I would try that!

Lazypuppy · 22/11/2020 20:56

What do you mean leaving him feeling wet? Nappies don't feel wet to kids, thats thebpoint of them they soak up the wee.

If you think he can be dry at night then focus on that, obviously you are going to be up a few times in the night for him to wee.

I think you need to start being more afamany what you want him to do, sounds like yoi are letting him make the decisions

midnightstar66 · 22/11/2020 20:59

I could have written this. So many people say naps til 3 etc but both my DD's would have been awake past 11pm from even the smallest daytime sleep after they turned 2. Neither napped regularly after 18 months. For a good year 4pm onwards was hell. Single parent trying to cook with grumpy toddler screaming attached to my ankles or having had a sleep up til midnight when I had to be up early. Avoid the naps, make nighttime waking as boring as possible. Keep lights off and don't talk. Accept that you will probably never have a child that goes to bed at 7 or sleeps for 13 hours straight although now at nearly 8 and 11 mine do sleep in a bit on weekends and sleep all night not even in school nights no one is ever asleep before 9.

Original poster

Hardbackwriter · 22/11/2020 21:04

He definitely, definitely knows his nappy is wet and dislikes it. He never says it's wet when it isn't, so he absolutely can feel it. A liner might be an idea, though.

I agree that I think we should be more firm/consistent, but that's why I was asking for advice - I wasn't sure if actually we should be accepting that naps are over and saying no daytime sleep ever and riding out a period of adjustment, or whether we should be ensuring all the daytime sleep we can even if it means driving him to sleep. I agree that halfway house is not working but I wasn't sure on which way to jump!

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dohdohdoh · 22/11/2020 21:48

I'm in a similar position with my almost 2 and half year old. We've found that every 3 days he will do a nap as the deficit builds up (learnt the hard way as on those he is an absolute nightmare!!!)

Is he getting lots of running around time to wear him out? Upping time at the parked worked for us, for a bit.

Have you started to do night time potty training? Maybe he needs to work out that if he needs a wee he can just go and that it's no longer a way of getting attention.

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