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I refuse to feel guilty about this!

44 replies

tigermoth · 24/09/2002 13:09

See what you make of this, oh wise ones.

Not having much family, it is a real treat to visit my in laws. Things between us all are harmonious and happy, and we organse our days - the 3 year old, 8 year old, dh and me, Mil and Fil, so everyone is contented - or are they....

Pil (retired) work hard to make their home a comfortable place. They have high standards and are very organised. Mil cooks and works part time, Fil maintains several acres of land and does DIY. They are both keen gardeners and have a thriving vegetable garden. They run a tight ship.

The house and garden is immaculate whenever we visit. Suppers (all home cooked - some frozen in advance) arrive like clockwork from Mil's kitchen. We wash up, clear the table, do extra food shopping etc, in case you think all the other adults let mil do everything.

Mil and pil love seeing their grandchildren. My oldest stays with them for holidays and they are looking forward to having the toddler too when he's older.

I try to make sure that the pils get as much time with the children as they want. But each pil also has their routine to follow - gardening, shopping etc, so they aren't free all day. Their home is in a lovely part of the west country, near a beach and lots of child-friendly attractions, so of course I enjoy taking the children out. And this is where the problem begins.

I think I overdid the taking out when my oldest son was a toddler. He was extremely active and attention demanding. Inside the pils immaculate house - all cream carpets and spindly antique furniture (and this is after a pre visit clear to make it childproof), looking after the toddler, trying to watch him every single second, was exhausting - no, I'd say, impossible. And if things got broken, as they did, I felt awful. Even if the tut tutting was kept out of my earshot I only had to look at the house to see that milk accidently spilt on a cushion, a towel rail wrenched off its hinges, etc mattered much to them. Dh did his bit, but sporadically - he would escape by helping fil work outside during the day. All three adults put the childminding responsibilty on my shoulders. OK, fine, but I take that to mean I have the ultimate power to decide what we then do with our day.

I hit on the solution of leisurly breakfast/touching base (for as long at toddler behaved himself) with pils, followed by trip out,(approx three to seven hours depending where we go) returning with a tired but happy toddler soon ready for the bedtime routine, which pils were free to help with. Then adult supper. Plus, pils were always consulted/invited on the trips out. Sometimes they would come but often were too busy. Neither of them like sitting for hours on a beach.They have never volunteered to take either of my sons out for trips alone. It is just not what they do.

A year or two ago, I began to be aware that pils and dh felt I was not staying in with the children enough, and they wanted to see more of us. Over supper one evening it was suggested to me that the reason my sons were overexcited at home was because the trips tired them out too much. Pils wondered if we might be happier staying in all morning, playing in the garden and then went out after lunch. This was the routine they followed with my then 5 year old when he holidayed alone with them.

So on the last few visits I have reduced the length of the trips out, and let it be known that if pils want us back for any family thing that suddenly crops up, they are very welcome to ring my mobile and we will return.

However I don't think I have gone far enough in my fil and dh's eyes. My mil is an angel and would not make this an issue.

Now the pils plan to sell their house and move to a smaller, village-based one in a couple of years. One reason (implied) for this is that we don't make as much use as they hoped of the house and garden. I really will not feel guilty about this:

The house is too perfect for me to let my sons wander in an out of rooms all morning unattended. The TV room, for instance, has a low shelf with antique telescopes on display. So however much my sons like watching cartoon network (and I don't!!) I can't leave the three year old alone without a quiver of fear and only feel 90% sure that the 8 year old will not fiddle and touch. And no, I cannot say to pils, can you put items A,B, and C away, because in their eyes they have already cleared the house sufficiently. I resent being put in a position where I am expected to spend hours and hours watching over my children. At home they don't have mummy constantly at their elbow. No one else takes on this responsiblity at my pils - everyone else is too busy unless specially asked, so if anything is broken, the blame is all mine.

Ahh yes, the garden. Not much better. A shed full of rakes and power tools, a greenhouse full of tender young plants, a shared driveway with three other houses leading straight onto a road. No gate. A stream. Not a place you can let a three year old run wild in.

My dh suggested to me, I kid you not, that I take an axe and a hammer and spend a day with my sons building a camp in the field next to the garden. And look after the toddler at the same time, and stop the 8 year old from cutting off his fingers. I think not. Also the fact of the matter is that even he most beautful garden becomes boring to my sons after an hour to two - unless they can do exactly as they want in it.

I sometimes feel that pil and dh want the three of us to be like some very public performance installation - 'mother and sons playing happily together for hours and hours AND HOURS' everyone else please feel free to spectate, join in or ignore - whatever suits you.

Ok I want an easy life. I want to take my sons to kid's farm, let them run wild in a playbarn while I take a sneak at a book. Take them to the beach because I like it too. I want to do my looking after chldren bit according to my own rules in private - I do not want to be publically judged. I don't know all the rules of pils house and garden anyway - what's allowed and what isn't. I don't want to get stressed guessing. I don't want my sons to be in trouble for some small thing I allow them to do at home - like drinking squash form a non drip beaker in the living room. We do not confine all drinking to the kitchen. Am I being selfish and lazy? How do others cope? I think I am in the right here and, sorry, I'll compromise as much as I can at pils, but I won't feel guilty!

OP posts:
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sobernow · 24/09/2002 13:23

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emsiewill · 24/09/2002 13:36

The thing that strikes me straight away, tigermoth, is that your dh does not seem to take much part in this (apart from his "helpful" suggestion re the camp). Does he not see how difficult this is for you? Can he not speak to his parents and explain how you are feeling (or can you, or have you tried? ).
Trying to think of something else useful to suggest. I'll give it further thought...

angharad · 24/09/2002 13:37

I think you are in the right and TBH why do your PIL need such a vast house and garden? Is there any reason why they can't come on trips out with you? My parents love seeing the kids enjoy themselves in parks, Techniquest etc, I think they would find it a bit overwhelming to have us all in their house for days at a time.

Talk to your Dh, explain how you feel and really don't blame yourself about the house. After all tey might have some free monet to spend on themselves.

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Pigwig · 24/09/2002 13:48

Tigermoth, you can't live your life the way other people want you too. Sounds to me like you have been exceptionally patient and flexible with your pil. Kids want to go to places that interest them, like the beach, farm, park etc. Your pil does not want to go to these places but still wants time with the children, he's the adult, he should do the things they like to do instead of expecting them to do the things he likes to do, like potter around a garden all morning. The thing I love about being a parent is doing all those child like things you havn't done for years,maybe if he gave it a go he might enjoy it. I understand that you don't want to fall out with your pil but he needs to understand that this is want you all like to do and if he wants time with the kids then he should join in. Certainly don't feel guilty, you sound like a fun mum who knows how to enjoy herself and her children.

Enid · 24/09/2002 13:53

I agree with the other sentiments here, especially sobernow's comment about the denial factor. All that perfection sounds like b**y hard work at any age.

Did your dh grow up there? Did the PILs give their children a fabulous, Swallows and Amazons-like childhood or do you think this is just an idealised version of the kind of life they wished their children had?

Why don't you let them run wild and break one of the telescopes? That would soon teach the PILs to childproof their home

Jaybee · 24/09/2002 13:58

Could you not suggest that dh takes the boys to his parents for a weekend - alone!!
He may then realise what it is like to keep watch over them and what mischief they get into when not watched constantly.
My mil's house was always the same - cream carpets etc. I have to admit the kids soon realised that they were not allowed to eat/drink in the lounge etc. but she would always take them out to places too - could you not ask pil to take them to the park etc.
Could you not suggest that grandad could make them a play house with a fenced area that would enable you to feel that your 3 year old will be able to play safely without constant watching.

emsiewill · 24/09/2002 14:00

Tigermoth, is your dh's family quite "British". What I mean is are there lots of unspoken things, everyone fuming underneath, because no-one understands what they are thinking, but never enlightening anyone (this type of family is well known to me & mine ). The reason I ask is that I was wondering whether your PILs have taken offence at you going out & about so much, but don't understand (& "don't like to cause arguments" by asking) ? They might really believe that they've childproofed their house/garden and think that you just can't bear to spend time with them. After all, it's probably a long time since they had children living in the house. Would sitting down & talking about it help?

tigermoth · 24/09/2002 14:20

There's definitely an elemnent of pils feeling the upkeep of the house and garden will be too much trouble for them soon, so I know that the move will be for this reason too. They are not in big denial about this, but I still resent the second reason tagged on - ie we don't make much use of it. Interesting point, yes, perhaps the second reason takes the edge off the first.

I do think there's an element of idealising their past, too. I know they were both a work when my dh was young - in another house, I hasten to add. Perhaps they were busy people and can't really break out of the habit now. And of course toddlers are a shock to the system when you haven't lived with one for years.

We do communicate fairly well, and I have told fil (nicely with a smile on my face) that I do not agree with his theory that trips out make my children overtired and overexcited in their home. But I don't have the nerve to ahve a go at them about tehm never taking out their grandsons when we visit. And I suspect their answer would be what's wrong with here?

I have to dash off now but will come back to this soon. I can see where you're coming from, Enid, about letting sons break the telescope. Sadly the toddler tripped over a Georgian sewing box on our last visit causing hundreds of pounds worth of damage, so if any lesson sinks in it will have now!

Yes, Emsiewell, it's all very Bitish.

OP posts:
pupuce · 24/09/2002 14:32

Tigermoth...... I have very similar issues with PIL (except DH agrees with me all the way).... and my mum expects the kids to be raised the way we were (eating in kitchen not living room, etc)
My PIL live in France, we see them twice a year and when DD was born they came (as they would)... were surprised that DS was going to nursery (part time) while they were there.... Bear in mind DD was 2 weeks old.... I offered to pick him up 2 hours earlier from nursery... we did,we got home...they left for the B&B to REST!!!! And left me with baby and toddler.... the ONLY time where I would have found their presence a blessing !
I remember calculating that in 5 days they saw DS for about 3 hours.... DH said : Oh they are getting old.... they are very tired, they don't want to impose, etc

My suggestion would be : Print your post and show it to your DH and tell him.... this is how I feel... can we talk about this ? Can YOU tell me how you view this...

Is that possible ?

Clarinet60 · 24/09/2002 14:34

Tigermoth, I'm so hopping mad on your behalf that I'm writing this without reading what others have said. No, you are not being selfish! They are! The way the house & garden are set out is ridiculous if their intention is for the children to make use of it. They can't have it both ways. Nobody seems to do the childcare/supervision except you, which is grossly unfair, and instead of complaining you were coping with it all beautifully by taking them for long, lovely days out. What a lovely mother you are. Tell your DH to pull his weight, bog off to a health spar for the day and see how they all like it!
Sorry, this is not very helpful. I'll give it proper thought, but this is my knee-jerk reaction.
I feel a bit better about my currntly crappy situation after reading this.
I don't have in-laws worthy of the word, but when we go to visit my DH's older friends, who also live in the west country, and who DH looks upon (and wishes they were) as his parents, DH often skips off into the garden, but the husband of the couple always take DS with them to play so I can rest. When we are indoors, the wife helps me with the children and lets me disappear into the bath for ages if I want. And they aren't even blood relatives! I don't think it would be much of a holiday for me if this didn't happen. We all pitch in at mealtimes too, just like you describe.

prufrock · 24/09/2002 14:43

Too right you don't feel guilty. From your post you really do seem to have thought this all through yourself and don't really need our help. But ...

These are your DH's parents. It is not your job to be the main communicator on this, but his. Does he realise the problems and agree with you? - from his camp suggestion it sounds as if he is as unrealistic as your pil's. Whatever - make this his problem by following Jaybees suggestion and sending him and the kids for a weekend, or just send the kids (maybe seperately) for an overnight trip

Good luck

Clarinet60 · 24/09/2002 14:45

Also Tigermoth, you deserve a medal for getting the children nice and tired in the evenings, not flack. Good bedtimes are what we all strive for. Are you sure they didn't find your dh under a gooseberry bush at the age of 16?!

Scuba · 24/09/2002 15:26

Don't feel guilty Tigermoth it's seems to me you do as much as possible to fit in with your ils (no pun intended!). I empathise with you as I have ils who never seem satisfied with whatever I try to do (which isn't very much in their opinion).

bells2 · 24/09/2002 16:27

Am a bit rushed Tigermoth but your post really strikes a chord with me. I know people (friends and family) think I?m manic the way I always take my two on outings. I just can?t sit at home and do lego, play with Brio etc for more than about half an hour without wanting to get on with cooking/cleaning or just reading the paper. I just find it so much easier and more enjoyable to be out and about with them ? even if it is just a tube ride in to central London or whatever. As soon as I get in from work in the evening in the summer, its out to the playground until my hubbie arrives.

People (and particularly in-laws) do seem to have this idealised vision of mothers and small children playing quietly and contentedly for hours on end but it seems to me that these same people have never actually tried to spend 3 hours plus entertaining young children indoors. Your PIL?s set up certainly sounds far from ideal for the ages of your child and I share your frustration at how ultimately it is you who is expected to assume responsibility for childcare. But absolutely, you must NOT feel any guilt over this.

parent · 24/09/2002 17:08

When I first had son I was anxious about taking him out and about. Mostly for the reason that I was well over protective and did not want to run the risk of him catching any bugs from other kids. Paranoid I know. But with your first they your little bundle of joy and you want to keep them safe. Luckly im a lot more relaxed. I forced too drop my paranoia with the birth of my daughter, and faced with looking after two under two year olds. After a month of being stuck in doors with them I was going stark raving mad. Where I live there is scheme called sure start funded by the goverment that has family centres that are open most days. Creches and playgroups are run by qualified nursery staff, there are health visitors on hand for help and advice. Also they run courses for the Mums whilst kids looked after in creche. Im doing a computer course at the moment. I feel a lot better in myself now that I have a bit of a life and dont have the kids on top of me all the time. Also i feel alot more confidant as I know have the confidance to leave my kids with qualified people which I never had before. I also think my kids have benefitted being out and about as they are learning to interreact with others, and dont get dependant on me to be their only friend and entertainment.

robinw · 24/09/2002 19:06

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Lindy · 24/09/2002 19:39

Can you not be honest (agree that your DH should say this) & say something on the lines of 'you can appreciate that I need to get the kids out for some boisterous exercise, I don't want them wrecking your beautiful home & antiques, like they did the sewing box ........ '

I think you have been remarkably good, & to be fair, I think the inlaws, for their generation, are being as honest & open as they are able to.

Yet again I am grateful I no longer have PILs !!

bayleaf · 24/09/2002 20:11

I have to say you sound practically saint like Tigermoth - and bl**dy right not to feel guilty! The pils sound just like 'old people'. As has been said on various other threads on Mumnet, even the most normal parents/in laws often get a bit 'odd' and irrational as they get old and start behaving in less that sensible ways ( eg moaning about not seeing granchildren then not actually bothering to see them as in Pupuce's example - ours are just the same).
What strikes me though is that dh and you should be in this together working out a way to make it bearable for everyone - but it almost sounds as though he's as much part of the problem as your inlaws. Any chance wthat you could do as Pupuce suggests and show dh the thread ?
I also like Jaybee's suggestion - if you can't get dh onside any other way then could you manage that one? Get him to take dss there for the weekend without you?
Why do you do all the childcare when you are there? What is dh doing whilst you are looking after ds? I know most dh's would happily let us do 100% of the childcare and just swan in for the 'feel good ' moments - mine is as guilty as hell but has responded faily well to HARD negotiations!

WideWebWitch · 24/09/2002 20:13

Tigermoth, I also think the suggestion of sending your DH to his parents on his own with the kids is great, although maybe unrealistic! Let him go and build a camp in the field and keep them both away from the road and the power tools!! I wouldn't have gone for that suggestion either and it sounds as if came from someone who doesn't have children (no offence to your DH).

It is soooo stressful being in a house with breakable things at toddler height and I completely understand why the alternative (taking them out) is preferable. You give your fil and mil the option of coming too so what is the problem? If they are busy or don't want to that is their affair but I really don't think they should suggest that you stay in, in a stressful environment, for their pleasure. If they do want you to stay in, in their house, they should, IMHO A) toddlerproof their home PROPERLY first and B) Help, or at least spend some proper time with your children so you are not solely responsible. You are doing the best for everyone -taking your children out, letting pils do their own thing and returning to help with washing up and getting your children to bed.

I don't think it sounds as if they are moving because you don't make full use of the house. Could it possibly be masking a real, or primary, reason? (As someone else said I think?) It is another reason to give you all but I'm wondering if there could be a health issue or something that you are not fully aware of? (maybe not, just a thought).

In summary, I agree with you: go, enjoy their company and that of your children and DON'T FEEL GUILTY for your behaviour - it sounds exemplary to me. Do think maybe your DH could be more supportive in this - they are his parents. But maybe he'll never get it unless he's taken them on his own and experienced it first hand? HTH.

Marina · 24/09/2002 20:25

I like Jaybee's idea too, Tigermoth, and I really agree with others here that you have gone the distance with both PILs and dh and have nothing to feel guilty about - although, excuse me: where exactly were you when ds2 trashed the sewing box? Not at your post, clearly . I would also be interested to know if the second reason for their considering a move was mentioned in dh's hearing. My own MIL is more than happy to drop unwelcome hints about family shortcomings to me, rather than to dh, her own flesh and blood. Not cricket, frankly.
They are all jolly lucky to have such a forgiving and imaginative person in their midst. I sometimes think that a mother's eye is a bit like a dragonfly's: you look round a room and every toddler trap is magnified and multiplied until your head is swimming. Your PILs' home sounds a complete nightmare. Antique TELESCOPES were left out? What on earth did they clear AWAY?
Just because they sound like basically very nice, welcoming parents-in-law and grandparents, it doesn't give them the right to manipulate you, how ever jovially it is done. I really think you need dh on side for this one. The tableau you drew of bountiful mummy sprawled gracefully on the lawn with rosy-cheeked boys, for everyone else to beam at from the safety of the drawing room certainly needs an axe and a hammer taking to it. So no solutions but loads of sympathy and an e-tap on the wrist to dh. He's not doing all he could.

ionesmum · 24/09/2002 21:37

I agree with all that's been said. Children are little people, not some form of entertainment (although often entertaining) It drives me mad when family demands to have children paraded for their own enjoyment regardless of whether that is what is best for them. I have to confess to upsetting both my family and dh's over this sort of thing, by not going along with their plans.

And I do also think that there is some sort of wishful thinking on the part of your pil and dh, too.

FrancesJ · 24/09/2002 21:51

Oh, don't feel guilty, whatever you do. Lordy-me, the thought of being doomed to an idyllic looking picture on the lawn fills me with dread. Children, in real life, just aren't furniture-conscious, are they - well, mine isn't, and I'll be deeply worried if number two is.

I've a couple of suggestions (can't promise that they'll be helpful, though) - the first is a 'tack' I've used in a vaguely similar situation, which is to be terribly pro-active in involving grandparents. If MIL loves cooking, why not mention how ds is terribly keen on cooking Christmas biscuits with her (unless ds hates cooking, of course)? If FIL is keen on DIY, would he be keen on building a wooden toy boat/car/trolley with ds? Then you've filled them up with meaningful tasks that they will approve of, and can do with grandchildren, thus giving you some nice peace and quiet, and them some idea of what it's like to supervise children in a non-ideal world. This whole idea obviously depends on whether your children would actually enjoy such activities.

Other suggestion is more devious. Could you go there for the weekend, but, in advance, find some reason to go out by yourself for a morning, somewhere you can't take children, and where no-one else would want to go. I'm thinking along the lines of 'A colleague at work has asked if I can pop into the record office and look up a few details of family history for her', or 'I'm terribly keen on looking at the rock strata in that particular bay, but it would be unsafe for children, since rock falls are common'. Again, then the rest of the household would have to take responsibility for general amusements, and would become more aware of the general pitfalls of things like streams/telescopes (any child I know would make a beeline for both...I'm totally amazed at how you can manage to keep them away from them without major paddies ensuing. Know mine would throw a complete wobbly if kept from something as interesting as a stream).

I wouldn't feel at all responsible for any implied suggestion about moving houses. If they want to move house, let them move house - it's always a possibility that they want to use you as a bit of an excuse because they don't want to wholly admit that a large house and garden is a bit 'much' as they get older.

Am still blenching at the thought of antique telescopes placed near three year olds......and remembering that on last visit to my own in-laws, dd did a massive wee-wee during lunch over one of their new chairs.....

IDismyname · 24/09/2002 22:21

I DO like FrancesJ's second option! Could you not check out some local rock strata, and well! Blow me down! Car's got a puncture! Don't wait for me for lunch... I'll be home sometime this afternoon.... All said from a rather sunny pub garden with a large G&T in hand....

Hilary · 24/09/2002 22:29

I am surprised you still go, to be honest. You are far more saintly than I!

Have you got room at your house for them to come to you sometimes? Then they could still see you all but your kids will be in a child friendly house with all their things around them. Things are more on your terms in your own house too and you will have a more relaxed time with your pil if you don't have to be running around after your kids constantly.

I couldn't cope with that situation. You have bent over backwards to make the visits bearable for all, there's not a lot more you can do. Bless you for trying so hard.

Batters · 25/09/2002 09:31

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