Toddler hitting newborn

[MummaBear4321]

I have a 12 day old and a DD who is turning 2 on Friday. We have love bombed the toddler since the newborn arrived, and as we are both home we are spending lots of time sitting with her playing, reading etc. We have tried to keep the newborn arriving low key and show her that the newborn hasn't changed life. But, DD hit the terrible 2 tantrum phase about 2 months ago, and her frustration levels can be shocking. She is now grabbing the newborns hand, holding on like a death grip and when we peel her off the newborn (who is screaming as she is clearly hurt) the toddler responds with hitting the newborn. We then put her in time out on the stairs, then make her come in and apologise, but honestly, she sits waiting for us to come out, no tears, no tantrums, she couldn't care less. She does it again a few hours later. We are actually nervous of what she is going yo do everytime she touches the baby. This is on top of 30+ tantrums a day, her lying on the floor kicking and screaming for every little thing. We never give in. We never distract her. We never indulge it. She just keeps doing it.

Honestly I dont know what to do. I am at the point of severely disliking my own child because she is physically hurting my baby. I can feel my anger building and building towards her. She is a nightmare to be around, and every 3 minutes it's another battle.

Hit me with your behaviour management tips. How do I react to her bad behaviour, especially towards the baby, that discourages it and shows her this is unacceptable. I need to do something. I cant just ignore it.

I wouldn’t let her touch or get too close to the baby until you can trust her not to hurt her. Watch her like a hawk so she doesn’t have the chance to hurt the baby.
For tantrums I know you say you don’t distract but I would start to distract as soon as you see one brewing. I find they can get stuck in a cycle of tantrums. Just as sleep breeds sleep I find tantrums breed tantrums.

Just as you don’t much like your daughter when she hurts the baby she won’t like herself either. That feeling will then cause her to act out more so I always think it is so important to try everything you can not to let your child hurt another person.

Oh I dont miss the terrible 2s. Is your toddler bored (understandable with nothing open) but perhaps walks to the park etc would help her burn off steam and pent up frustration.
Will she "help" with the baby?
I suppose lots of praise when she is kind and gentle and fast removal when she isnt. I always found it important not to "reward" the tantrums with attention as this feeds them, but once they are over move on quickly.

We had a similar problem although DS was a little older. I literally couldn't leave them alone for a millisecond, it was so stressful.
With him I think it was just attention-seeking behaviour so I tried to make sure he was still getting plenty of one-to-one time when the baby was asleep. And if he tried to hurt her, rather than removing him from the situation and putting him in time out I always whisked the baby out of there and gave her loads of cuddles and attention, asking her if she was OK etc, so he wasn't being rewarded with attention.
Hopefully it's just a phase and will pass quickly!

Her whole world has turned completely upside down at a time where she is trying to figure out how to communicate and walk independently in the world.

Like it or not the newborn HAS changed her life pretty much forever now as she will always have a sibling. Trying to make out her life isnt changed I dont think is helpful

What is her routine - how has it been affected by the arrival. Is she still doing the same things, eating at the same time, sleeping at the same time. REmember as well this is also in another lockdown with awful weather that will have an impact as well.

You are both home - divide and conquer. Spend time 1 on 1 with each. Model good behaviour if you can - she wants to hold and touch the baby she doesnt get what is going to hurt her. Show her

and stop punishing her for hurting the baby when she probably doesnt realise. She is at the moment thinking you are picking the newborn over her - show her that is not the case

I have to say we have made a serious effort to keep her routine exactly as it was, down to family dinners, milk and cbeebies after dinner, nap routines. Not having visitors due to lockdown has helped keep things very normal for her, although daddy being home isnt normal. We have also been out a good few times for walks and to the park, but she is probably a bit bored when at home. We have been playing with her a lot but maybe that has led to her expect that she should get attention from one of us at all times, compared to when DH is in work and she has to play by herself some times when I am cooking dinner etc.

I like the suggestion of just getting up, walking away, and fussing the baby when she hits her. I will try that. Also, you are right that her life has been turned upside down emotionally. She obviously didnt even understand that the baby was coming, or that she isnt going away. I am trying to be empathetic, but also my hormones kick in and I worry about her aggression towards the baby, how to balance the praise with distraction with aversion and then with scolding. Its so hard to know the right approach.

Have you considered nursery? If she’s bored then it may be really positive for her. With the best will in the world it’s impossible to give a 2 yo all the 1-2-1 time they need with a newborn around too.

If your current approach isn't working and she "just keeps doing it" then it's up to you to change tact. Maybe indulge her and try to distract her. Get her involved in the baby's routine, helping out with the big girls jobs etc.

I have a 5month old and a 2year old. I had to watch him like a hawk with the baby as he was hurting her too. Think months 0-2 were the worst. Now I have to try and manage him nearly crushing her with hugs but the hitting and hurting is very rare now thankfully. Hopefully your daughter will be the same
, sending solidarity as it's really tough.

When you say you don't distract her from tantrums, can I ask why not? If I didn't attempt distraction with my almost-two year old, she'd spend the entire day having a meltdown.

Ps I would say that she's still tiny still. I don't think children that age can fully grasp actions/consequences/empathy. Someone with a better understanding of child development may correct me, but I'd personally just be using prevention (separation of newborn and toddler), positive reinforcement of good behaviour ("well done for being so gentle!") and distraction during tantrums. You have my sympathy though - my little girl of a similar age is very prone to tantrums and I can't imagine managing that with a newborn. It'll get easier!

She actually is in nursery 2 mornings a week which is a godsend!!! With helping and getting her involved, she is very involved. She does it all; get the nappy, bring the bottle, puts babys clothes in the wash, gets muslin cloths, helps rub babys back. She has always been a good helper with housework too. She gets lots of praise for all the helping she does. This is the thing, I have tried a lot of different things to make the baby positive. Yet she still has moments of pure anger and tantrum towards her. Her tantrums have always been pretty epic, but again I have tried everything from distraction, time out, talking her down, cuddling her (that actually has the worst effect funny enough), getting angry and using a firm voice, removing her from the situation. I am a teacher so I have over half a decade of behaviour management experience, but my DD does seem to be exceptionally stubborn.

I think I really just need to keep my cool (I have been getting angry and crying when she does it. I am not usually a crier. Hormones are killing me), take baby out of the situation, not reward DDs behaviour, but also not spend my time scolding her. She is doing so many bad things for attention, like throwing things, screaming on the floor, kicking, hitting DH. She hit the baby again a few minutes ago when I was holding the baby (I was sitting with DD reading a book) and I just got up and walked away.

I dont think her anger is directed at the baby more frustration

She isnt even 2 this is a huge change for her - alongside seeing a different side to the mother

Take the incident you just explained - before presumably you would be reading a book cuddling just her - now there is someone else there and she doesnt like it, doesnt know how to express it and lashes out.

She is very much still a baby who needs her mum.

It will get easier though OP (not least of all because trust me the baby will fight back!)

She is going to continuing acting out unless you employ some different tactics. Just getting up and walking away is not going to help if she is, as you say, doing things for attention.

Sorry you are going through this but you need to reset things a bit. Can your DH take some time off work to help you a bit.

I am in a similar situation; baby now 3 months. I can tell when he is about to lash out, he sort of dances and grimaces. I say I know you want to hit baby but I won't let you (heard this on the Unruffled podcast)

The thing that might have helped the most is actually letting toddler hold baby when he's in a good mood and wants to. He is so proud and holds her close.

Whenever baby is crying and I am doing something for toddler, I say 'sorry baby, you'll have to wait as I am changing DS's nappy (or whatever). I don't know if that helps.

When DS hits DD and she cries (actually rare as she's pretty tolerant) I tell him to look at her face. I also tell him to look at her face when she smiles at him. This was a suggestion from a friend who thinks it has helped her children bond. Good luck!

I read the second baby book by SaRahul Ockwell-Smith too. It helps set out just how upsetting the new baby is for the toddler, that helped me be more sumpathetic.

You could also read The book you wish your parents read, by Phillipa Perry. This tells you what you find most upsetting as a parent might link to your experience as a child. Are you a younger or older sibling? Anything tough happen when you were 2?

@pjani they are interesting suggestions. DD seems quite perceptive and emotionally clever, so that sort of thing may work with her. Maybe I do need to change what I am saying. I found pre baby that talking her down (saying 'ok, we are going to calm down. Take a breath. Everything will be ok') actually helped her. Also, DH is at home for this week, so he is helping. We are tag teaming the tantrums and trying to be consistent. With me, I was the older sibling, my sister was born when I was 2 months older than my DD is now. I apparently barely reacted, but I think my mother has just forgotten.

She is still so little. Don't expect too much too soon.
If she enjoys nursery, I would consider upping her hours there. There are also some good books you could try about being a big sister, hands are not for hitting etc. Let me know if these are of interest and I can dig out some titles.

Can you give her 'jobs' to do to help the baby...getting the baby wipes out, putting the blanket on gently, with your supervision of course, so she feels like she's helping.

30 tantrums a day is epic. I have never heard of a DC having so many. Not sure 30 can be talked down. This would worry me and I would definitely make sure your baby is out of reach as much as possible. With the best will in the world, your baby is not safe with your 2 year old. Could a parent come and stay? Do the hard work with the 2 year old? Continual distraction and removal so you get on with the baby? I also feel that continuing to humour her is going to let her know its really all ok. It is not though, is it? Definitely up the nursery attendance.

I do not really know what else to say but I would be devasted by this. I do see parents who love, hug, kiss and canoodle all the time with Dc, then have DC who expect this love shower for years and years. Regardless of behaviour. They have learnt they can do no wrong. It all ends in hugs and kisses anyway. So there is no need to behave. It means they really cannot share you with anyone else either. They want all the love. It is going to be tough unless you get help for a bit. Hope you can.

I don’t think numerous tantrums a day is that unusual! I also don’t think that you can hug, kiss and love your kids too much. Obviously children need boundaries too but I think you can have both.
There was a long term study that categorised a mother’s affection and then looked at depression and anxiety in adulthood. The adults whose mums were in the ‘extravagantly affectionate’ category were the least likely to be depressed.

30 a day is huge. I would have been upset with 30 a month. It utterly draining. You also love children by guiding them. You don’t have to praise the unpraiseworthy. It teaches nothing. Just take a sensible approach to love vs boundaries and teaching what’s right. Keep going on behaviour you expect. It does eventually pass but sometimes very very slowly. But I’ve never seen or heard of any child with 30 tantrums a day. Whinging yes. Throwing things, lying on the floor, being unsafe next to a baby is not acceptable. But implying to a child that cuddles is the reward seems wrong.

I am not being dramatic when I say 30 a day at the minute. Sometimes she finishes one and has another 2 minutes later over something else. Grant it, it does vary from just having a standing moan or cry because DH stopped playing with her, all the way through to a 10 minute screaming fit on the floor because I halved her banana rather than keep it whole. However, i think the issue is i do expect pretty good behaviour from her, so I dont really let anything go. I say 'no' a fair bit, I take make her pick things up if she throws them, I never give her what she wants if she screams for it, and I 'punish' her by turning off the tv if it's on if she does something naughty, or she is taken away from whatever she was throwing a tantrum over, all of which does make the tantrums worse, but up to now I have had a solid behaviour expectation and management and have stuck to it. Up to a month or so ago, it worked! The baby is making me question my standards now. On a normal day pre baby, where it was just me and her, she might have one or two small meltdowns. But generally she was always very good. I think the baby and DH being home has just caused chaos. Honestly, it's taking all my patience, because I know she knows how to behave, because she normally does behave. Even my sister who minded her while I was in labour said she didnt throw a single tantrum. She just isnt behaving now.

@MummaBear4321 of course she isnt - her world is in chaos and she cant process the emotions.

Tantrums are not poor behaviour they are poor behaviour management - a lack of being able to deal with emotions

What arent you letting go though because the standards you have for a not even 2 year old whose world has turned upside down. Pick your battles and allow her to regulate her emotions over this without expecting her to just be ok

and a standing moan or a cry isnt a full blown tantrum