Racist Comments

Hi Madie

Really sorry to hear about your experience. Are you likely to have to deal with these people again in the near future? If you are you may have to say something to the childs mother, if not I would just ignore it and put it down to ignorance on the parents part.

I was in a similar situation where at my ds's birthday party, one of my friends husbands was heard making barely veiled racist comments about my BIL (he's black). I was very angry and quite upset because my friend is a really lovely girl and I couldn't believe she could live with someone like that (he done a number of other dodgy things but I won't go into that now). Anyhow, a few months later it was my dd's christening and I wanted to invite my friend but not her husband and was tying myself up in knots about it. In the end I had to say something, she was appalled when she found out and promised to talk to her husband about it. I also asked my BIL if he minded them being invited and he was cool about it so it all ended OK.

HTH

Hi Madie

Really sorry to hear about your experience. Are you likely to have to deal with these people again in the near future? If you are you may have to say something to the childs mother, if not I would just ignore it and put it down to ignorance on the parents part.

I was in a similar situation where at my ds's birthday party, one of my friends husbands was heard making barely veiled racist comments about my BIL (he's black). I was very angry and quite upset because my friend is a really lovely girl and I couldn't believe she could live with someone like that (he done a number of other dodgy things but I won't go into that now). Anyhow, a few months later it was my dd's christening and I wanted to invite my friend but not her husband and was tying myself up in knots about it. In the end I had to say something, she was appalled when she found out and promised to talk to her husband about it. I also asked my BIL if he minded them being invited and he was cool about it so it all ended OK.

HTH

Sorry for the double message I'm don't 'do' technology!!!

I agree with Batters, don't assume that the original comment came from the parents, but do have a word with the mother, so she realises what her son said. It's in his best interest after all.

I don't know where you live but possibly the child isn't used to seeing non-white faces? I grew up in a very rural part of Wales and I can still remember going to london age 4 and being amazed that people weren't necessarily white.

Similarly my brother then age 5, made comments on a train about a Muslim family (Arab descent) "wearing funny clothes and talking funny". I was mortified but he genuinely didn't understand things to do with race/language etc.. Sorry this is rambling but I do think it's possible the child's comments were perfectly innocent.

Madie
I think you may have to talk to her about it if you want to keep on seeing her as a friend, otherwise you will always be thinking that this is what she thinks herself, when it may well not be. Maybe the child heard it from someone else - many grandparents are still quite racist in their views - and the mother wouldn't actually want her child to be racist as well. I don't suppose the child actually meant it in a full racist way at that age, but was applying an overheard phrase to a possibly genuine enquiry? If it does turn out that the mother is racist, do you actually want to have much to do with her anyway?

It will be hard to do, I know - best of luck.

Are you sure that this comment was meant in the same way we all (as adults) understand it - did the child actually comment on your siser's colour? The reason I ask is that a child recently said a similar comment to me at a party - I had just corrected him as he was being a bit of a pain, a few minutes later he came over to me and told me to go home!!! A similar comment - but as I am white I was unable to take it any other way except that he didn't like me.

message withdrawn

Madie, if I was this boy's mum I would want to be told. BUT I'm not sure what I'd do in your situation since maybe it was meant innocently, as Jaybee said? 3 is very young to have picked this up... agree, maybe you could have a word with the mum and mention it. She will, presumably, be either horrified or unsurprised. If it's the latter, take it from there. Good luck.

Madie - my fear, if I was in your position, is what if the mother IS racist and the comment HAS come from the parents? That's certainly not an excuse to ignore it but, if it was me, I would probably make tenative enquiries or ask suggestive questions to see what response I got before tackling the mother head-on. It's easy to assume the mother would be horrified becasue we would be, but what if she's not?

Madie, I agree with others that it may well not come from the parents or even be anything more than just an innocent comment. Also, although I grew up in california in a completely racially and socioeconomically mixed environment with parents who didn't differentiate between my rainbow colored string of boyfriends (and friends), my dh grew up on an all white council estate in Hartlepool where he never knew anything but poor white people. Consequently I often find that he will revert to terms and language that I find racist or offensive, when he isn't actually meaning to be either. For example he grew up referring to asians as "Paki's." When he does this he isn't intending to imply dislike, it's just hard to undo 40 years of habit. And despite the fact that I am a "middle class foreigner" he often will say out of habit..."damn foreigners" or "middle class wanker." It's particularly funny when he does this in foreign countries...
Having said all of that, I'm not trying to suggest that racism is in any way acceptable in any shape or form, but only that sometimes language belies the true actions and feelings of the speaker.
I would probably let it go and not say anything to the mother unless something else happens with this child that gives an indication that it wasn't just an innocent comment.

Madie, I had a think about this because we live in a part of London that is plagued by racism, to my deep regret. What worried me about this encounter was that the little boy did not use a single-word racist epithet, which he could easily have heard in public somewhere, but a phrase whose individual components are not offensive until combined. I think if my son, who has a keen ear and is also three, had heard that phrase once on a bus, he would not have had enough "clues" to its context to use it appropriately later. Thank goodness.
Where this child picked up such ideas you cannot be sure, but my guess, FWIW, is that he has heard them repeated often enough to associate them with different ethnic groups, and seems to think it is quite OK to confront individuals directly with them.
So basically I'd agree with Tinker - consider it a warning that this family might have racist attitudes that they have no problem with whatsoever. But if I were you, I'd steer clear of them, and if your children are at the same playgroup, I'd make a general enquiry of the managers as to whether they have noticed anything like this, or have a diversity policy in place. I feel very sorry for the little boy and very sad your sister experienced such an encounter at what was supposed to be a happy occasion.

Hmm yes, I can see tinker and marina's point - what if the family don't see anything wrong with the comment - only said by a three year old after all.

You know of this boys mum and If I'm reading you right, instinctively feel reluctant about approaching her. Perhaps you should trust your instincts. However, could someone else talk to her about this - as suggested by another here?

You said that the incident was witnessed by you, your sister, your dhs and another mum. Could the other mum to have a word with this woman? She is the only one who is not a relation of your sister. It may be that the boys mother would fell less defensive if this witness passed on the news.

madie

i agree with www - mention it to the mother and let her reaction decide your actions thereafter.

i admire you for displaying such tact, calm and consideration in this situation - when it is you and your family who have been upset.

Right, it's Christmas day at Buckingham Palace and Camilla Parker Bowles suggest playing a game....

This will mean absolutely nothing to you if you did not watch The Office tonight.

That was funny!

LOL Willow2

Madie,

My son is nearly 3 and starting to ask all kinds of questions and I think a lot about race, culture and identity. You have to accept that there are a lot of racist people of all races, and our children will come into contact with them at some point. The same is true of sexism. The most important thing is that we make sure our own children's self esteem is not damaged by other people's prejudices. I think it is very important that, eg, in ds's nursery they have dolls of all different races, and the blond one is not the one everyone competes for because there is no hierarchy amongst the dolls. I spent several months searching for a doll that looks like my ds (the nursery gets them from an educational wholesaler and I could not find non-white dolls in any local shops).

However, some people's rude behaviour can still be funny. Ironic story: after finally finding a boy doll that looks like ds in complexion, he named it "Dolly". One day in a queue he was having a bit of a tantrum and an old couple in front of us started chatting to him. The man goes, "Who's that? What's the name of your doll?" Ds goes, "It's Dolly." The old man goes, "Golly? Is it your golliwog?" I think that old man was not malicious towards us, but had no idea of what connotations are associated with golliwog, and I know that in his day golliwog was a kind of animal toy with no name, unlike the real dollies with Christian (and I bet only Christian!) names. I think it never even occurred to him that that doll had been bought to look like ds, and that he was by implication calling ds and me golliwogs - or perhaps he regards us all as golliwogs (!). But I still thought it was funny and ironic. I just said, "No, that is Dolly," and left it at that. I don't think that it is your duty or even feasible to try and explain to every Tom, Dick, and Harry how to behave politely or that the Empire has been gone for half a century. Sometimes, you just have to accept that some people are insensitive, vulgar, crude and rude in all kinds of ways, some of which are racist ways, and try and avoid contact with such people, because you can't change the world overnight or singlehanded.

Amma
that's a really interesting story - and I do think this thread in general is fascinating.

I expect to the old man a golly was something he remembered being attached to in his youth - an acceptable doll-substitute for boys. I think (I'm not sure) that boy's could have gollies or teddies to cuddle but not dollies - a male kind of soft toy. Bit more cuddly than an action man!

I agree with you about how difficult it is to find multi-racial toys. The catalogues schools use have a wide range, but they don't seem to be on general sale.

I'm sure Early learning Centre now do dolls of different colours now. Amma, I'm impressed that your ds will play with his doll - if it hasn't got wheels or can't fly, my ds just won't touch it and I do wish he would play with at least some of his other toys!